Seahawks VERY ALIVE in the Wild Card Race

[Shanegotyou11]

Fans mad if you make the playoffs now. Brady ruined it for every fanbase. Also, so did Russ and Pete by making playoffs 24/7.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think ESPN did an article last week about how Belichick and the Patriots have ruined fan expectations forever.

Now we all expect that one SB means a decade or more of dominance, when that's just not the reality of a parity sport like the NFL where good teams are constantly punished for remaining good for a long period of time.

Having said this, it doesn't mean I will forever blindly think Pete is infallible. IMO the Seahawks organization is in a very precarious time of volatility and transition......and while Pete might feel safe to keep around, he has not proven to us, or to ownership that he's capable of getting this team back to a SB. This goes for on the field, and in player acquisition/personnel.

Russell certainly sees the writing on the wall, it's why he did what he did last off season. He sees that the roster isn't anywhere near talented enough to win another SB in the foreseeable future.

I don't think Pete is in infallible... I don't think Pete hasn't made mistakes... I just don't think they are going to replace him with anything that is better... I just don't think anybody is that much better than Pete... replacing Pete at this point would be foolish IMO but i do under stand where you guys are coming from with wanting a SB... i feel the same way I want a SB as well...I just don't think blowing up the organization is the fastest way to get there I think doing this is taking a 50/50 chance...

People like to label me a blind optimist... this is not the case i have very specific, logical reasons why I believe what I believe... its not like I'm pulling flowers out my a$$... you watch and see the Hawks pull out of this... then, if they don't fine give me some crap but just because I see what most don't see doesn't make me a blind optimist ...It just makes me different than everybody else...


LTH

So let me ask you a question. What do you have to see to finally jump off the I trust Pete bandwagon LTH?

well... I would have to see a situation where Pete is no longer effective motivating the team...

truthfully I haven't really thought about it because with me he is not close to being fired in my mind... if the Hawks had a really horrible season this year I think it would be appropriate to start having the discussion but at this point it's not Pete's fault that Russ got hurt and I Really believe the Hawks would not be 3-5 if Russ was in there I would think they would be 5-3 or close to that...

It just boils down to expectations. sure everybody wants a SB... I get that.. I'm frustrated they haven't won a SB but what's realistic? what is the rest of the NFL doing in comparison? who are you going to replace Pete with? these are questions in my mind.... I'm really unsure of what's going on between Pete and Russ... I don't think anybody has a good idea of what's going on...If I had that information it would make things a lot clearer..

LTH

I think you're only disconnect in this logic is Russell.

I do think he forces ownership's hand this next off season. I'm sure he loves and respects Pete, but Russell wants to win SB's and cement his legacy as one of the greatest QB's of all time..........and that's not happening here, certainly not during the remainder of his contract.

So will he tell Jody Allen it's me or Pete? Probably not, doesn't seem like his style. But IMO he will sharpen and become more serious than he was last off season with the trade me talk.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Fans think franchise QB = multiple SBs. That is the lens that leads to all nonsense. Never mind the fact that all historical evidence points to that not being the case. I don't know why it's so difficult to understand. Add in people getting jealous cause the media's flavor of the month team or player or coach is always some other team and people lose their minds

 

[LTH]

I don't think Pete is in infallible... I don't think Pete hasn't made mistakes... I just don't think they are going to replace him with anything that is better... I just don't think anybody is that much better than Pete... replacing Pete at this point would be foolish IMO but i do under stand where you guys are coming from with wanting a SB... i feel the same way I want a SB as well...I just don't think blowing up the organization is the fastest way to get there I think doing this is taking a 50/50 chance...

People like to label me a blind optimist... this is not the case i have very specific, logical reasons why I believe what I believe... its not like I'm pulling flowers out my a$$... you watch and see the Hawks pull out of this... then, if they don't fine give me some crap but just because I see what most don't see doesn't make me a blind optimist ...It just makes me different than everybody else...




LTH

So let me ask you a question. What do you have to see to finally jump off the I trust Pete bandwagon LTH?

well... I would have to see a situation where Pete is no longer effective motivating the team...

truthfully I haven't really thought about it because with me he is not close to being fired in my mind... if the Hawks had a really horrible season this year I think it would be appropriate to start having the discussion but at this point it's not Pete's fault that Russ got hurt and I Really believe the Hawks would not be 3-5 if Russ was in there I would think they would be 5-3 or close to that...

It just boils down to expectations. sure everybody wants a SB... I get that.. I'm frustrated they haven't won a SB but what's realistic? what is the rest of the NFL doing in comparison? who are you going to replace Pete with? these are questions in my mind.... I'm really unsure of what's going on between Pete and Russ... I don't think anybody has a good idea of what's going on...If I had that information it would make things a lot clearer..

LTH

I think you're only disconnect in this logic is Russell.

I do think he forces ownership's hand this next off season. I'm sure he loves and respects Pete, but Russell wants to win SB's and cement his legacy as one of the greatest QB's of all time..........and that's not happening here, certainly not during the remainder of his contract.

So will he tell Jody Allen it's me or Pete? Probably not, doesn't seem like his style. But IMO he will sharpen and become more serious than he was last off season with the trade me talk.

 

[LTH]

So let me ask you a question. What do you have to see to finally jump off the I trust Pete bandwagon LTH?

well... I would have to see a situation where Pete is no longer effective motivating the team...

truthfully I haven't really thought about it because with me he is not close to being fired in my mind... if the Hawks had a really horrible season this year I think it would be appropriate to start having the discussion but at this point it's not Pete's fault that Russ got hurt and I Really believe the Hawks would not be 3-5 if Russ was in there I would think they would be 5-3 or close to that...

It just boils down to expectations. sure everybody wants a SB... I get that.. I'm frustrated they haven't won a SB but what's realistic? what is the rest of the NFL doing in comparison? who are you going to replace Pete with? these are questions in my mind.... I'm really unsure of what's going on between Pete and Russ... I don't think anybody has a good idea of what's going on...If I had that information it would make things a lot clearer..

LTH

I think you're only disconnect in this logic is Russell.

I do think he forces ownership's hand this next off season. I'm sure he loves and respects Pete, but Russell wants to win SB's and cement his legacy as one of the greatest QB's of all time..........and that's not happening here, certainly not during the remainder of his contract.

So will he tell Jody Allen it's me or Pete? Probably not, doesn't seem like his style. But IMO he will sharpen and become more serious than he was last off season with the trade me talk.

like i said i don't really know where Russell is at with Pete.... or for that matter where Pete is with Russ... i just don't. i surely don't trust the media perspective I definitely don't trust the fan perspective... it's one of those wait and see kind of things...

I do see Russ as kind of immature in the way he has handled things with the Media... I do recognize that Russ has ambitions.. I don't know much about how he is really thinking about things so i really don't want to put to much judgement on him...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

like i said i don't really know where Russell is at with Pete.... or for that matter where Pete is with Russ... i just don't. i surely don't trust the media perspective I definitely don't trust the fan perspective... it's one of those wait and see kind of things...

I do see Russ as kind of immature in the way he has handled things with the Media... I do recognize that Russ has ambitions.. I don't know much about how he is really thinking about things so i really don't want to put to much judgement on him...

Agreed on both.

All we have is what's made public, and what Russell and his agent made public was a very bizarre "I don't want to be traded but if you're so inclined here are the teams!" statement.

This was after the hiring of Waldron.

So what other way can we take that statement is Russell's not happy with Pete and the direction of the organization, and he's greasing the skids for his eventual exit when he finally does have enough leverage to make it happen.

And when's that? It's next off season, or the year after.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Fans think franchise QB = multiple SBs. That is the lens that leads to all nonsense.

Thats not true, but fans do expect more than the pathetic path the team has taken the past 6 years in the post season. Teams with franchise QBs should expect to get past the 2nd round once in awhile.

 

[toffee]

like i said i don't really know where Russell is at with Pete.... or for that matter where Pete is with Russ... i just don't. i surely don't trust the media perspective I definitely don't trust the fan perspective... it's one of those wait and see kind of things...

I do see Russ as kind of immature in the way he has handled things with the Media... I do recognize that Russ has ambitions.. I don't know much about how he is really thinking about things so i really don't want to put to much judgement on him...

Agreed on both.

All we have is what's made public, and what Russell and his agent made public was a very bizarre "I don't want to be traded but if you're so inclined here are the teams!" statement.

This was after the hiring of Waldron.

So what other way can we take that statement is Russell's not happy with Pete and the direction of the organization, and he's greasing the skids for his eventual exit when he finally does have enough leverage to make it happen.

And when's that? It's next off season, or the year after.

Russ also expressed that he has no confidence in the coaching staff, and yes, that was AFTER the hiring of Waldron. Imagine what went though Waldon's mind at that point. OK this is a football team not a government, but in parliamentary governing system, a no confidence vote means dissolving the government from office, and set up voting for a new one.

The message was loud and clear for the ears of Jody Allen, Russ wanted Pete, John, Norton, Waldron removed. His motion of no confidence was defeated, partially because there was no team willing to sacrifice enough for Russ, Jody wasn't willing to fire Pete etc. without a better alterative, and just to make Russ happy. She could hire Urban lol.

We won't get better return in trading Russ this off season, now that he is one year older and with some injury worries. Last off season was the golden opportunity. Pete and John blew it, that alone deserve to be fire lol.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

like i said i don't really know where Russell is at with Pete.... or for that matter where Pete is with Russ... i just don't. i surely don't trust the media perspective I definitely don't trust the fan perspective... it's one of those wait and see kind of things...

I do see Russ as kind of immature in the way he has handled things with the Media... I do recognize that Russ has ambitions.. I don't know much about how he is really thinking about things so i really don't want to put to much judgement on him...

Agreed on both.

All we have is what's made public, and what Russell and his agent made public was a very bizarre "I don't want to be traded but if you're so inclined here are the teams!" statement.

This was after the hiring of Waldron.

So what other way can we take that statement is Russell's not happy with Pete and the direction of the organization, and he's greasing the skids for his eventual exit when he finally does have enough leverage to make it happen.

And when's that? It's next off season, or the year after.

Russ also expressed that he has no confidence in the coaching staff, and yes, that was AFTER the hiring of Waldron. Imagine what went though Waldon's mind at that point. OK this is a football team not a government, but in parliamentary governing system, a no confidence vote means dissolving the government from office, and set up voting for a new one.

The message was loud and clear for the ears of Jody Allen, Russ wanted Pete, John, Norton, Waldron removed. His motion of no confidence was defeated, partially because there was no team willing to sacrifice enough for Russ, Jody wasn't willing to fire Pete etc. without a better alterative, and just to make Russ happy. She could hire Urban lol.

We won't get better return in trading Russ this off season, now that he is one year older and with some injury worries. Last off season was the golden opportunity. Pete and John blew it, that alone deserve to be fire lol.

As LTC alluded to, I honestly don't think Russell's thought process goes this deep.

I think it was as simple as he went to the Superbowl, saw Tom Brady win on another team after leaving NE, and Russell got mad that he knows he's probably not going to win another SB in Seattle anytime soon, and called Mark Rodgers and they did their weird ill thought out directive to the Hawks through the media.

Why do I think there wasn't a lot of thought put into it? Cause look at the four teams he picked. Raiders, Bears, Saints and Cowboys?

Wat.

Seems more like a list of where Ciara wants to live vs any real thought and research put into those rosters, coaches, offensive fit for Russell, etc.

So who knows, but we do know one thing.........Russell wasn't happy, and he's certainly not happy now, and will be even LESS happy come next January after we don't make the playoffs, or barely get in and get hammered again.

 

[LTH]

it also might be a consideration that Russ thought he might be on the trading block and was feeling a little insecure... the media is way out there sometimes... If i was a player i would turn off the TV and tune out the papers and just focus on what I have to do to reach my goals...the fact that the media was reporting that chicago was making a play for Russ was just fuel on the fire for everybody... kinda lame in my mind...


LTH

 

[OrangeGravy]

like i said i don't really know where Russell is at with Pete.... or for that matter where Pete is with Russ... i just don't. i surely don't trust the media perspective I definitely don't trust the fan perspective... it's one of those wait and see kind of things...

I do see Russ as kind of immature in the way he has handled things with the Media... I do recognize that Russ has ambitions.. I don't know much about how he is really thinking about things so i really don't want to put to much judgement on him...

Agreed on both.

All we have is what's made public, and what Russell and his agent made public was a very bizarre "I don't want to be traded but if you're so inclined here are the teams!" statement.

This was after the hiring of Waldron.

So what other way can we take that statement is Russell's not happy with Pete and the direction of the organization, and he's greasing the skids for his eventual exit when he finally does have enough leverage to make it happen.

And when's that? It's next off season, or the year after.

Russ also expressed that he has no confidence in the coaching staff, and yes, that was AFTER the hiring of Waldron. Imagine what went though Waldon's mind at that point. OK this is a football team not a government, but in parliamentary governing system, a no confidence vote means dissolving the government from office, and set up voting for a new one.

The message was loud and clear for the ears of Jody Allen, Russ wanted Pete, John, Norton, Waldron removed. His motion of no confidence was defeated, partially because there was no team willing to sacrifice enough for Russ, Jody wasn't willing to fire Pete etc. without a better alterative, and just to make Russ happy. She could hire Urban lol.

We won't get better return in trading Russ this off season, now that he is one year older and with some injury worries. Last off season was the golden opportunity. Pete and John blew it, that alone deserve to be fire lol.

As LTC alluded to, I honestly don't think Russell's thought process goes this deep.

I think it was as simple as he went to the Superbowl, saw Tom Brady win on another team after leaving NE, and Russell got mad that he knows he's probably not going to win another SB in Seattle anytime soon, and called Mark Rodgers and they did their weird ill thought out directive to the Hawks through the media.

Why do I think there wasn't a lot of thought put into it? Cause look at the four teams he picked. Raiders, Bears, Saints and Cowboys?

Wat.

Seems more like a list of where Ciara wants to live vs any real thought and research put into those rosters, coaches, offensive fit for Russell, etc.

So who knows, but we do know one thing.........Russell wasn't happy, and he's certainly not happy now, and will be even LESS happy come next January after we don't make the playoffs, or barely get in and get hammered again.

I'm really curious what his teammates and peers around the league think of Russell. I'm pretty sure almost everyone respects his game on the field, but I'd like to hear what they say to their intimate friends. Things like last offseason don't go unnoticed by teammates even though they say all the right things publicly. Taking that route after playing like shit the 2nd half of the season couldn't have sat well some

 

[SoulfishHawk]

What about Rodgers? Do you think his teammates actually like him? I doubt it. Nothing Russ did was even close to what Lord Rodgers did.

 

[OrangeGravy]

What about Rodgers? Do you think his teammates actually like him? I doubt it. Nothing Russ did was even close to what Lord Rodgers did.

I bet some don't. He's a d-bag of the highest order.

 

[RiverDog]

I'm really curious what his teammates and peers around the league think of Russell. I'm pretty sure almost everyone respects his game on the field, but I'd like to hear what they say to their intimate friends. Things like last offseason don't go unnoticed by teammates even though they say all the right things publicly. Taking that route after playing like $h!t the 2nd half of the season couldn't have sat well some

At one point, the defense didn't like him at all. They felt that Pete protected him, wouldn't call him out for his mistakes, that Russell was too cozy with management, and so on. That was when the "he's not black enough" handle came out. However, many of those same players, after Cam Newton didn't dive on a loose ball in the 4th quarter of a one score game in the Super Bowl because he was afraid he'd get hurt, came out and said that their quarterback would have crawled on his hands and knees through the hubs of hell to get that ball back. So who knows.

And that was 6 years ago, Russell wasn't the 10 year veteran that he is today, didn't have a contract that took up 15% of the salary cap, before the "Let Russ Cook" stuff, the 4 team trade list, his private jet, and so on. Bottom line is that no one outside that locker room can say with any kind of assurance what the dynamics are between Russell, his teammates, and others around the league. We can only speculate as to what we might think, and none of us know the man outside of the public face is like.

 

[pittpnthrs]

If you look around the NFL there is no dominate franchise that has dominated for years like the old days of the 49ers, Steelers and Cowboys. those days are LONG GONE...

People say that they are wasting Russell Wilson at his prime but yet look at the franchise QB's in the league the last ten years or even longer... Payton Manning Eli manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers... with the exception of Brady NOBODY is really out performing Wilson and Carroll.... Look at the coaches, nobody is really out performing Carroll by a big margin..

I dont know so lets take a look. Since 2015.

Green Bay and Rodgers-
2015 - lost to the Cards in 2nd round
2016 - lost to Atlanta is Conference finals
2017 - missed playoffs (Rodgers broke collarbone in week 6)
2018 - missed playoffs (McCarthy fired in week 13)
2019 - lost to 49ers in Conference finals (first year with new head coach)
2020 - lost to Tampa in Conference finals

Steelers and Roethlisberger
2015 - lost to Denver in 2nd round
2016 - lost to Patriots in Conference title game
2017 - lost to Jags in 2nd round
2018 - missed playoffs
2019 - missed playoffs
2020 - lost to Browns in 1st round

Saints and Brees
2015 - missed playoffs
2016 - missed playoffs
2017 - lost to Vikings in 2nd round
2018 - lost to Rams in Conference finals
2019 - lost to Vikings in 1st round
2020 - lost to Tampa in 2nd round

Seahawks and Wilson
2015 - lost to Panthers in 2nd round
2016 - lost to Atlanta in 2nd round
2017 - missed playoffs
2018 - lost to Dallas 1st round
2019 - lost to Packers in 2nd round
2020 - lost to Rams in 1st round

Any other franchise QBs i'm missing that played for the same team during that time span?

I dont know how everybody is measuring success, but you'll find Seattle missing something compared to the other teams with franchise QB's. Also take note that Rodgers has been to two consecutive Conference finals with his new coach. So yeah, i'm ready to move on even if it doesnt equate to Rodgers success. A change is worth the gamble.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I'm really curious what his teammates and peers around the league think of Russell. I'm pretty sure almost everyone respects his game on the field, but I'd like to hear what they say to their intimate friends. Things like last offseason don't go unnoticed by teammates even though they say all the right things publicly. Taking that route after playing like $h!t the 2nd half of the season couldn't have sat well some

At one point, the defense didn't like him at all. They felt that Pete protected him, wouldn't call him out for his mistakes, that Russell was too cozy with management, and so on. That was when the "he's not black enough" handle came out. However, many of those same players, after Cam Newton didn't dive on a loose ball in the 4th quarter of a one score game in the Super Bowl because he was afraid he'd get hurt, came out and said that their quarterback would have crawled on his hands and knees through the hubs of hell to get that ball back. So who knows.

And that was 6 years ago, Russell wasn't the 10 year veteran that he is today, didn't have a contract that took up 15% of the salary cap, before the "Let Russ Cook" stuff, the 4 team trade list, his private jet, and so on. Bottom line is that no one outside that locker room can say with any kind of assurance what the dynamics are between Russell, his teammates, and others around the league. We can only speculate as to what we might think, and none of us know the man outside of the public face is like.

I know. That's why it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall so to speak

 

[LTH]

If you look around the NFL there is no dominate franchise that has dominated for years like the old days of the 49ers, Steelers and Cowboys. those days are LONG GONE...

People say that they are wasting Russell Wilson at his prime but yet look at the franchise QB's in the league the last ten years or even longer... Payton Manning Eli manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers... with the exception of Brady NOBODY is really out performing Wilson and Carroll.... Look at the coaches, nobody is really out performing Carroll by a big margin..

I dont know so lets take a look. Since 2015.

Green Bay and Rodgers-
2015 - lost to the Cards in 2nd round
2016 - lost to Atlanta is Conference finals
2017 - missed playoffs (Rodgers broke collarbone in week 6)
2018 - missed playoffs (McCarthy fired in week 13)
2019 - lost to 49ers in Conference finals (first year with new head coach)
2020 - lost to Tampa in Conference finals

Steelers and Roethlisberger
2015 - lost to Denver in 2nd round
2016 - lost to Patriots in Conference title game
2017 - lost to Jags in 2nd round
2018 - missed playoffs
2019 - missed playoffs
2020 - lost to Browns in 1st round

Saints and Brees
2015 - missed playoffs
2016 - missed playoffs
2017 - lost to Vikings in 2nd round
2018 - lost to Rams in Conference finals
2019 - lost to Vikings in 1st round
2020 - lost to Tampa in 2nd round

Seahawks and Wilson
2015 - lost to Panthers in 2nd round
2016 - lost to Atlanta in 2nd round
2017 - missed playoffs
2018 - lost to Dallas 1st round
2019 - lost to Packers in 2nd round
2020 - lost to Rams in 1st round

Any other franchise QBs i'm missing that played for the same team during that time span?

I dont know how everybody is measuring success, but you'll find Seattle missing something compared to the other teams with franchise QB's. Also take note that Rodgers has been to two consecutive Conference finals with his new coach. So yeah, i'm ready to move on even if it doesnt equate to Rodgers success. A change is worth the gamble.

Dude I'm not trying to change your mind... you see it the way you see it..

I just don't think it makes a difference if you lose the championship game or you get bounced in the first round. Bottom line is you go home with out a SB only with a worst draft pick if you lose the championship game...


LTH

 

[RiverDog]

I just don't think it makes a difference if you lose the championship game or you get bounced in the first round. Bottom line is you go home with out a SB only with a worst draft pick if you lose the championship game...


LTH

I agree. Winning a 4 team division is a big whoop-dee-do for me, and securing the 7th seed in a 16 team conference even less noteworthy. For me, it's Super Bowl or bust. Anything less than that is a failure to launch IMO.

 

[TwistedHusky]

If you have an HOF quality QB, you should reach the conference game roughly twice every 4-5 years.

If you are consistently flaming out after the wildcard game, or getting boatraced every divisional playoff game - then you probably have Pete Carroll as your coach.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Dude I'm not trying to change your mind... you see it the way you see it..

I just don't think it makes a difference if you lose the championship game or you get bounced in the first round. Bottom line is you go home with out a SB only with a worst draft pick if you lose the championship game...


LTH

That is a big difference between me and you. I want to see improvement at some point. Your content with the cycle the teams stuck in for some reason.