Seahawks are declining the fifth-year option for defensive end L.J. Collier

[TwistedHusky]

Not sure you can call that one a bust. Nobody expected anything from that pick.

A bust is when someone does not live up to expectations.

 

[jammerhawk]

For sure his game is missing something.

Is likely a player to be axed at cutdown time, unless he can take a big step forward.

 

[Hawknight]

It's too bad as you always want your players to succeed. However, it's not the case with Collier. Maybe he'll pull out a "Penny" and come through for us (see what I did there )

 

[GemCity]

Not sure you can call that one a bust. Nobody expected anything from that pick.

A bust is when someone does not live up to expectations.

If it weren’t for him being a 1st round pick, I’d likely agree.

He did have a couple of incredible plays. Hopefully, someone picks him up…just not us.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Maybe but it wasn't his fault he was a first round pick.

That was a fun TCU team to watch that year. I liked that defense too. Weirdly when we drafted Collier, I thought we drafted the other guy. That would have been fine (though not sure he is doing anything in the league either...so there is that) but when I saw it was Collier, I was confused. Who? Didn't we want the other guy? It was a weird move.

BUT

When draft for upside and you take chances trying to hit home runs, you have to accept you are going to get some Procises and Colliers. And if you are happy with DK Metcalf pick, that was an upside pick too. So you cannot be a fan of the Metcalf pick and lament the Collier pick. Same process delivered them both. If you want Metcalf outcomes, you have to take your Procises. (and Colliers).

So calling Collier a bust is a bridge too far. He didn't work out but the % wasn't great he would in the first place.

 

[Own The West]

Unless Collier balls out this year, he won't be worth $11.5M. Good call by the FO.

Inre busts: Our top picks always get injured before the opener. idk why, maybe it's because they're young and get money for the first time in their lives and figure they have it made. But Collier was out of shape when he came in. Penny was fat! McDowell was an idiot. I'm grateful our FO did not give any of them a starting job unless they earned it, and that they are not to proud to cut bait if a player is not trending the right way.

When I look at this class, Cross looks to have some baby fat on him. Not sure if that's cause he's 21 or just a little extra OL padding, but it got my spidey sense up. Conversely, K9 looked like he could give DK a run for his money! Mafe looks chubby as well. Based on my very scientific eye test, Walker is going to make us forget all about Carson and Penny, and Cross and Mafe are going to be works in progress this year.

 

[sdog1981]

Maybe but it wasn't his fault he was a first round pick.



So calling Collier a bust is a bridge too far. He didn't work out but the % wasn't great he would in the first place.

What is this? Twisted with a bit of positivity? This really is a crazy off-season.

 

[GemCity]

Maybe but it wasn't his fault he was a first round pick.

That was a fun TCU team to watch that year. I liked that defense too. Weirdly when we drafted Collier, I thought we drafted the other guy. That would have been fine (though not sure he is doing anything in the league either...so there is that) but when I saw it was Collier, I was confused. Who? Didn't we want the other guy? It was a weird move.

BUT

When draft for upside and you take chances trying to hit home runs, you have to accept you are going to get some Procises and Colliers. And if you are happy with DK Metcalf pick, that was an upside pick too. So you cannot be a fan of the Metcalf pick and lament the Collier pick. Same process delivered them both. If you want Metcalf outcomes, you have to take your Procises. (and Colliers).

So calling Collier a bust is a bridge too far. He didn't work out but the % wasn't great he would in the first place.

I liked DK but, I know what you’re getting at. . All fans want every single pick to become HOFers. Folks genuinely want everyone to succeed.

I’m just glad that JS and PC got back to business in this draft. At least, I’m thinking they did.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Did that say he was training for a “bounce back” season?

Bounce back to where? He was never anywhere good enough to bounce back to.

 

[Grahamhawker]

It's easy to call him a bust through the hindsight lens based on his draft position; congrats to anyone who saw that coming. The consensus at the time seemed to point toward maybe somewhat of a reached based on DE talent going fast and early, but not a joke pick. Collier's draft profile (and even grading of the pick) was not bad. I recall being generally on-board with his pick as he had some pretty positive attributes. Didn't he completely dominate the Senior Bowl that year? Too bad that for whatever reason he has yet to really pan out; chances he will turn that around seem very slim.

 

[Jerhawk]

Hopefully this lights a fire under him and he balls out this year, similar to Penny.

Doubtful, but maybe a scheme change will help him?

 

[GemCity]

One caveat…he may do better in a 3-4.

 

[JayhawkMike]

It's easy to call him a bust through the hindsight lens based on his draft position; congrats to anyone who saw that coming. The consensus at the time seemed to point toward maybe somewhat of a reached based on DE talent going fast and early, but not a joke pick. Collier's draft profile (and even grading of the pick) was not bad. I recall being generally on-board with his pick as he had some pretty positive attributes. Didn't he completely dominate the Senior Bowl that year? Too bad that for whatever reason he has yet to really pan out; chances he will turn that around seem very slim.

To me one of the worst failings of PC and JS is their extreme overvaluing of the Senior Bowl. I am happy with THIS draft so I will tone down the complaining a bit. At the time he was like the 7th or so DE taken. Without looking back we probable could have taken a different position and had the top ranked player at it. They had position tunnel vision though we really needed a DE. Too bad we didn’t get one.

 

[Chawker]

I would of declined his fourth year, if it was possible.

 

[hawkfan68]

Hopefully LJ turns it around. The scheme TCU runs is a 4-2-5 under Patterson. This is similar to 4-3 over. The Seahawks primarily ran a 4-3 under and are now making a shift to 3-4. Not sure if the scheme change will be more aligned with Collier's skill set. We'll find out soon.

TCU and positionless defense

While the Horned Frogs’ 4-2-5 defense is often considered a standard for flexible base defense, they’ve also been experimenting with hybrid packages.

www.footballstudyhall.com

 

[BlueTalon]

Or, at least it appears to be an awesome job at the moment.

Sure things can also not pan out. We can think the FO finally drafted correctly and get very little out of it. If that happens, it would call into question many of the assumptions made by posters on this platform about the draft.

Fair point. But the implied caveat is "given the information currently available to us..." As such, I think we did well this year, as well as anyone could have reasonably expected.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Fair point. But the implied caveat is "given the information currently available to us..." As such, I think we did well this year, as well as anyone could have reasonably expected.

Yep, agreed. This seems like a great draft all around.

Then again, maybe we were so weak in so many areas, just about any rookie will be an upgrade!

 

[GemCity]

I would of declined his fourth year, if it was possible.

Lmao!

 

[Scout]

Collier looks like a JAG out there at this point. If he becomes more aggressive he can actually shine in this league so maybe the switch to 34 will allow him to play with more tenacity.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Since everyone is trashing on him, I will add some positive notes:

1. Collier’s skillset might be a better fit as a base 3-4 end than 4-3 end. I think the biggest thing going against him was pass-rush expectations and he just got washed out of the rotation by veteran players that were either more versatile than he was or just had better technique and bend.

2. I know Red Bryant was a 4th round pick but they’ve kind of had similar career paths. Bryant struggled in his role as a DT in his first two seasons then started to gain traction when the moved him to 5-T type role in his 3rd season but at that point he had only played in 17 games across 3 seasons. Then as we all know Bryant became a solid contributor from 2011-2013.

4. Bryant’s biggest skillset was that he was a 2-gap space clogger and had the length to disrupt passing lanes. Collier does possess the length and strength to fill out that role but realistically he would need to add at least 20-25 pounds to become the sort of 2-gap run stuffer Bryant was and force and hold double teams whether or not if it was what the Olinemen were trying to achieve.

4. Luckily for Collier, a player like Shelby Harris could be not only be a strong role model but a good mentor for what LJ Collier could still become in terms of being perhaps at least a solid rotational 3-4 DL for now that could grow into a starter. As a player that can hold his ground on the edge at end, be disruptive and active but in control of his assignment, have sneaky penetration, especially when the outside linebackers force the ball-carrier inside and have then versatility to come inside as 4-2-5 as a pass-rush DT.

I don’t necessarily care at this point if he was a first round pick, or what his expectations should be with that pick, that was 3 years ago when team expectations were higher and pass-rush was so important in contending in the Play-Offs. If he can just earn himself a role within Hurtt’s defense and be consistent with it. I’m fine with that.