Sam is all Man

[Dolomight12]

And I don't get why I'm getting such pushback here.

Sam made the plays he needed to make to help the team win.

He made the big throw to JSN that Lock would NOT have been able to make.


What is wrong with pointing that out? (especially when it's damn f'n true)

You really, REALLY gotta learn to not see every gottdamn thing typed about Sam as an attack or "pushback".

ETA : and if it IS "pushback", so what? It's a discussion board.

 

[Dolomight12]

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.


....(even though technically I did respond but you know what I mean)

No need. I think I know.

 

[glenwo2]

No need. I think I know.

And this after you said : "You really, REALLY gotta learn to not see every gottdamn thing typed about Sam as an attack or "pushback"."


Dude....get out of my f'n sight.

I thought you were cool but you're just being a dick now.

 

[Dolomight12]

And this after you said : "You really, REALLY gotta learn to not see every gottdamn thing typed about Sam as an attack or "pushback"."


Dude....get out of my f'n sight.

I thought you were cool but you're just being a dick now.

You were either a single child/no siblings or the baby. Funny style mfer.

 

[glenwo2]

Back on topic :


The Narrative is finished (or it should be finished but I know it won't be).

Darnold has won a big game.

A Playoff game.

Now the goalposts get moved to the next game and, hopefully, the SB.

But at this point, it doesn't matter what the Pundits think.

What matters is WINNING and that's what Sam is helping the Hawks do with his play.

Sam is indeed All Man.

GO HAWKS!!

 

[glenwo2]

Yeah, honestly, I'm pretty sure this team could have won with Drew Lock at QB the whole night. Mike just has Shanahan completely figured out at this point.

But I'm going to credit Sam anyway. He had some big-boy throws.

One more thing I'd like to add to this, now that I think about it....


You said that this team could have won with Drew Lock at QB the whole night.

Do you know what Saleh would have done if Drew Lock was at QB the whole night?

He would've stacked the box against the run and dared Drew to beat them.

And he would not have been able to (or at least have had a difficult team doing so).

The reason the running game was so successful is because they respected Sam's arm.

Not so much Drew's if he played the whole game.


If Sam was not healthy and Drew played, the Hawks would've been F---ed, imo.

Drew is a backup for a reason.

 

[Trackhawk]

It's not that hard to understand what Sam needs to do to get the narrative monkey off his back, unless you're being purposely dense. I even outlined it in a previous post. And it isn't moving the goalposts to say that Sam still hasn't show the he can overcome adversity and carry the team, on his arm, to a win a big game.

It's fine to say he didn't need to. That's admitting that he still hasn't. It's fine to say that's not what is best for the team, and you would be right, but that's also admitting he still hasn't. It's fine to say he is doing what needs to be done. Again...

Yes, for me to truly believe in Sam, the way I believed in Prime Wilson, the way I believe in Mahomes, Allen, Prime Stafford etc, he needs to have a largely flawless big game, or two, carrying the team to a win on his arm. Throwing for 250 plus. 2-3 TDs. No ints. Maybe coming back from being down 17-21 points. And it needs to be a truly big, consequential game; playoffs, for the one seed against a quality opponent. The kind of game that the truly good QBs have on their resumes.

No shame in saying Sam hasn't done that yet. No dishonesty in saying he looks primed to do exactly what he needs to do to change the narrative.

Good QB's have bad games and great games. Darnold has bad games and good games. He needs to start having great games. IMHO it's as much about not having had much of a chance to do so, in his career. In terms of measuring him, he is more similar to a QB in their second year, with a lot of potential, and a lot to prove, than a 7-year vet.

 

[RiverDog]

Let’s put the narrative to sleep now.

Dude is playing very good AND he’s injured.

IMO the injury a bit obvious, and I couldn’t be any happier with him.

SAM CAN WIN THE BIG GAMES


NOW STFU about it.

I agree. Like most quarterbacks, Sam has had some problems with turnovers and has made some bad decisions, but the bottom line is that he's a solid quarterback and is playing as well as any of them at this point in the season, including Stafford, Nix, Allen, Maye, Purdy, et al. Whether or not he's our QB going forward into next season is debatable, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Right now, I couldn't be happier with what he's done for us this season.

The team looks different this season than it did when Geno was our QB. It used to be that Geno would throw a pick then go to the end of the bench, sit down by himself, then throw his tablet. You don't see that out of Sam. The defense doesn't seem to care if Sam f$ucks up. It's like "oh well, let's just forget about it and go do our jobs." In the meantime, players from the offense come over and talk about what went wrong. It's a completely different atmosphere, or at least that's what I'm sensing.

 

[Grahamhawker]

He may have buried the narrative or may not have and I don't care or think it matters. He's clearly a good enough QB and likely a better team-player. The secret to the way Mac has composed this team is best described in one word: balance.

Honestly, I've moved beyond even caring how it gets done, as long as it continues getting done. I believe this team has shifted the narrative that much. John don't care. Mac don't care. The rest of the staff don't care. Haven't heard from a single player (including Darnold) who seems to care. Look what can be achieved when no one cares who gets the credit.

 

[hox]

It's not that hard to understand what Sam needs to do to get the narrative monkey off his back, unless you're being purposely dense. I even outlined it in a previous post. And it isn't moving the goalposts to say that Sam still hasn't show the he can overcome adversity and carry the team, on his arm, to a win a big game.

It's fine to say he didn't need to. That's admitting that he still hasn't. It's fine to say that's not what is best for the team, and you would be right, but that's also admitting he still hasn't. It's fine to say he is doing what needs to be done. Again...

Yes, for me to truly believe in Sam, the way I believed in Prime Wilson, the way I believe in Mahomes, Allen, Prime Stafford etc, he needs to have a largely flawless big game, or two, carrying the team to a win on his arm. Throwing for 250 plus. 2-3 TDs. No ints. Maybe coming back from being down 17-21 points. And it needs to be a truly big, consequential game; playoffs, for the one seed against a quality opponent. The kind of game that the truly good QBs have on their resumes.

No shame in saying Sam hasn't done that yet. No dishonesty in saying he looks primed to do exactly what he needs to do to change the narrative.

Good QB's have bad games and great games. Darnold has bad games and good games. He needs to start having great games. IMHO it's as much about not having had much of a chance to do so, in his career. In terms of measuring him, he is more similar to a QB in their second year, with a lot of potential, and a lot to prove, than a 7-year vet.

Does Josh Allen catch a narrative now? Four turnovers yesterday and he still can't win the biggest games. This is the standard you have set. Yet Allen gets a pass from you and everyone else.

 

[Natethegreat]

It's not that hard to understand what Sam needs to do to get the narrative monkey off his back, unless you're being purposely dense. I even outlined it in a previous post. And it isn't moving the goalposts to say that Sam still hasn't show the he can overcome adversity and carry the team, on his arm, to a win a big game.

It's fine to say he didn't need to. That's admitting that he still hasn't. It's fine to say that's not what is best for the team, and you would be right, but that's also admitting he still hasn't. It's fine to say he is doing what needs to be done. Again...

Yes, for me to truly believe in Sam, the way I believed in Prime Wilson, the way I believe in Mahomes, Allen, Prime Stafford etc, he needs to have a largely flawless big game, or two, carrying the team to a win on his arm. Throwing for 250 plus. 2-3 TDs. No ints. Maybe coming back from being down 17-21 points. And it needs to be a truly big, consequential game; playoffs, for the one seed against a quality opponent. The kind of game that the truly good QBs have on their resumes.

No shame in saying Sam hasn't done that yet. No dishonesty in saying he looks primed to do exactly what he needs to do to change the narrative.

Good QB's have bad games and great games. Darnold has bad games and good games. He needs to start having great games. IMHO it's as much about not having had much of a chance to do so, in his career. In terms of measuring him, he is more similar to a QB in their second year, with a lot of potential, and a lot to prove, than a 7-year vet.

Except he absolutely has carried this team to victory in big games. Your just not accepting it. I tire of the argument no amount of wins will change a mind unwilling to.

 

[Trackhawk]

Allen falls into the Farve camp of gunslinger QBs who will have a lot of turnovers, but make up for it in on the positive side. His career 3.38 TD to INT ratio is significantly better than Darnold's, at 1.67. Darnold's two best years have ratios of 3, in 2024 and 1.78 this year. Farve's was worse at 1.5, but he played in an entirely different NFL.

Allen has shown that he can do it (in the regular season). He is a known entity. He absolutely deserved his MVP. He carried his team to some big, regular season, wins.

To me Darnold hasn't proven that he can or can't do it, and he certainly hasn't put together a full, MVP worthy season. Ever. There is insufficient data on him to say what he truly is.

But yes, the narrative on Allen is that he can't do it in the playoffs. If he never does it, that will be the historical lens through which he is seen. Much like Jim Kelly is known for four straight SB losses.

If you gave me the choice between Darnold and Allen today, all other things being equal, I'm taking Allen, but the gap is narrowing, and it's not a slam dunk decision.

 

[Trackhawk]

Except he absolutely has carried this team to victory in big games. Your just not accepting it. I tire of the argument no amount of wins will change a mind unwilling to.

My mind is wide open to seeing it. I think Sam is just about perfect for our team. I think Sam is doing exactly what he needs to do to give this team the optimal chance of winning.

However, the question wasn't "is Sam good enough," or "why does Sam need to do more when we are winning just fine" it was "what does Sam need to do to cast off the narrative. It's pretty clear what he needs to do, and pretty obtuse to say he has already done it.

 

[HOF Hater]

It's not that. 12 completions for 124 yards is just a weird flex. Maybe we'll need him maybe not I just think the whole discourse is taking away from the real reasons we're winning.

The rollout TD Pass to JSN was an elite throw

 

[Trackhawk]

The rollout TD Pass to JSN was an elite throw

It was.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

JSN touchdown pass last night was a ******* thing of beauty.

And Sam's stopped being a turnover machine in the last 4 or 5 weeks and playing MUCH smarter.

More than good enough for me. He doesn't have to save the world.

 

[pmedic920]

Allen falls into the Farve camp of gunslinger QBs who will have a lot of turnovers, but make up for it in on the positive side. His career 3.38 TD to INT ratio is significantly better than Darnold's, at 1.67. Darnold's two best years have ratios of 3, in 2024 and 1.78 this year. Farve's was worse at 1.5, but he played in an entirely different NFL.

Allen has shown that he can do it (in the regular season). He is a known entity. He absolutely deserved his MVP. He carried his team to some big, regular season, wins.

To me Darnold hasn't proven that he can or can't do it, and he certainly hasn't put together a full, MVP worthy season. Ever. There is insufficient data on him to say what he truly is.

But yes, the narrative on Allen is that he can't do it in the playoffs. If he never does it, that will be the historical lens through which he is seen. Much like Jim Kelly is known for four straight SB losses.

If you gave me the choice between Darnold and Allen today, all other things being equal, I'm taking Allen, but the gap is narrowing, and it's not a slam dunk decision.

Well you make a couple of reasonable points, and although this doesn’t necessarily address any of them it’s a general statement in relation to the entire conversation.

Supporting cast, and team chemistry IMO are probably the most important things that play a role in the success or failure of ANY player, at any position.

We all must agree that this team’s chemistry is freaking amazing, so in my opinion that leaves supporting cast.

The Support that Sam had vs the 9ers in the Divisional Round of the Playoffs was hands down top notch. I wouldn’t even entertain that game plan being random or happenstance.
Our Staff couldn’t have called a better game.
I even liked the deep ball to 22 that didn’t work, IMO it was brilliant. Almost every move we made was like a chess match, and almost every move resulted in “check” and it forced the 9ers to attempt getting out of “check”. The entire game was us putting them in “check” and them being forced into moves they didn’t want to make.

I still haven’t and may never watch the all 22 film, but I suspect that if I do I’ll see very few mistakes at any position. The only very obvious one I remember (I was pretty well lubricated) was one complete wiff by Bradford.
Point being the players Supported Sam not only emotionally but they supported him by doing their job pretty dam flawlessly.

That’s a lot of BS words to say this:

SAM CAN win any game especially the big games with this team because he’s with “this team”. He has absolutely the best supporting cast possible IMO, the system works perfectly.

Some will argue that my stance bolsters their argument otherwise but that’s ridiculous.
Sam can’t win unless……
Same can be said about any player of any team sport, so “unless” is completely irrelevant.

ETD
We’ve lost 3 games by a total of 9 points.
Sam played in every game.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Josh Allen is getting a "pass" because of fans' fear of the future, not an objective analysis of his play.

You decide Allen is the problem. OK, fine. Who do you replace him with? The next shiny first-round prospect that could become the next Zach Wilson? That isn't going to help the team. So people focus on blaming 1) the offensive coordinator (always the first scapegoat, as he's perceived as the least painful to replace), 2) the head coach, 3) the front office for not surrounding Allen with more talent and for paying Allen too much to build the rest of the team.

But if you could somehow, hypothetically, magically secure the outcome that the next QB they draft will be starter-quality, you'd be amazed at what you'd see: an unprecedented number of fans willing to part ways with Allen, right in the middle of his peak. Because now they're freed from the emotional biases that kept them from honestly examining the role Allen's tendencies are playing in the Bills' futilities. Since they are no longer scared to get rid of him, they can honestly judge his play.

Right now, I'm seeing a small but growing number of fans who are coming around to that and want him gone. A minority, but they're there.

 

[Chapow]

Does Josh Allen catch a narrative now? Four turnovers yesterday and he still can't win the biggest games. This is the standard you have set. Yet Allen gets a pass from you and everyone else.

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I was just watching NFL postseason countdown on ABC. Josh Allen is very much NOT getting a pass for his 4 turnovers yesterday. One of the things they talked about (among others) is that Allen himself said that he let his team down, and they all said he's right, he did let his team down. They also talked about how he's 0-7 in overtime, and how he's never won a conference championship and never gotten to the Super Bowl.

Now, is he going to "catch a narrative" that will follow him around going forward? That remains to be seen. But again, he absolutely is NOT getting a pass for his 4 turnovers yesterday and yet another playoff loss. Quite the opposite from what I've seen.

 

[bileever]

I had problems with the narrative that Sam isn't good in the playoffs or in big games because he had played in ONLY ONE playoff game before yesterday. How does that make any sense to judge someone on such a small sample size? (Plus I would point out that he threw for 250 yards in that game last year, so amount of yards does not equate to good or bad games.)

I agree with @Trackhawk that Sam should be regarded as a less experienced QB, because he came into the league young, played for some bad teams, had multiple injuries, then had a few years in the wilderness. He's just coming into his own now, and we'll see his full potential in the next few years.

As @hox points out, Josh Allen's 4 turnovers yesterday does not negate the otherwise good game he had, or make him less than a spectacular player. There are plenty of great players who have never made it to the Super Bowl. I personally think it's wrong to value a player less just because he hasn't won a Super Bowl.