Sam Howell is our Brock Purdy, until he isn't.

[SonicHawk]

There's nothing this forum loves more than our backup QB.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Personally, I didn't like Howell in the 2022 draft and didn't like the fit here. Short RPO QB with terrible pocket awareness who hung onto the ball forever looking for big plays. NFL teams clearly felt the same way with him falling to the 5th round, and Schneider passed on him at least 5-6 times at the time.

Since then, he's had a couple of decent games where the scrambling and big plays connected but overall he has made a bad impression in the league. He didn't do any of the stuff last year that you need for an offense to stay on schedule consistently. His 21 INTs were actually low compared to his turnover worthy play rate (4.1%). Washington decided he wasn't it and moved on from him, and I don't see why anybody should more excited about him now than they were previously just because he's our roster now.


Is it funnier to have an opinion regarding Howell then any other player on the roster? He's a new addition to our roster but not an unknown quantity. I'm sure most here are familiar with Howell as a prospect going into the 2022 draft where it looked like the Hawks would take a QB. There are also plenty who watch NFL games beyond only Hawks games.

I'm not going to hate too much on the trade because QB is an important position worth taking lots of shots at. I'm just very skeptical about Howell's ability to ever be a top 20 NFL QB.

Fair enough. Truly a mystery. I have a hard time believing he won't see the field though. Geno has been pretty lucky, injury wise.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

You might be on to something OP but I’ll raise you another comparison that might hit closer to home:

See, I was on the fence with Howell for this whole week, mostly because back in the 2022 draft, he was probably my least favorite QB prospect. His game reminded me too much of Russell Wilson especially with the lack of height plus a bit of Drew Lock without the measured athletic traits nor he possessed Lock’s height or Wilson’s hand size/ arm length metrics. And we already had a Drew Lock to try and develop 2.) If Wilson didn’t jive well in a Waldron offense, Howell didn’t seem like a scheme match to me.

However, trying to be the optimist and kind bargaining the similarities of Penix and Geno.

If I saw Geno as something similar to Pro Ready Penix in a Grubb type offense. Then what is Howell? Why Howell? How does Howell fit in?

And it hit me couple days ago after remembering last years deep dive on QB prospects.

Jake Haener.

Howell is a bigger, stronger maybe faster, maybe more Pro Ready Jake Haener. A QB Deboer/Grubb transformed back in 2021 that on a lot of 2022 pre-season watch lists he was considered as one of the best QBs in the nation.

Haener is 5’11.5, listed at 207, played around 200, with 29 3/4 arms.

Howell is 6’0.5, 218, with 30 3/4 arms.

Both were quality decision makers in college with Haener probably a step above once he got to Fresno St. However, Grubb’s system wants the QB to remain poised and navigate the pocket rather than create off-script.

Howell was more the opposite in terms of that starting for Commanders but how much of that was having one of the worst starting O-Lines and having an OC that pretty much coached himself out of the league and possibly the only reason he got the UCLA OC job was desperation and availability with Chip Kelly leaving.

In my opinion, Howell doesn’t have the elite athleticism to run an RPO style offense but enough escape pressure and be slippery like Tony Romo was, if Grubb can dial back his Heroball tendencies and develop his decision making process where he’s more poised I think Howell has enough to be something tangible.

I didn’t like the trade, I didn’t hate the trade, right now, though I’m a lot more content with what we have because I feel like Seahawks have guys that Grubb can either work with or develop or tailor into his offense where there is less adapting and changing from the two prominent QBs he’s had worked with in the last 3-4 years in Penix and Haener.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

We are drafting Plumlee in round 7. That’s the only reason they are bringing him to Seattle for a visit.

 

[IndyHawk]

18 starts and he's 23 years old. Clearly has some skills. But someone he's "ass"

What is it with you and QB's ?
Like you feel sorry for ass/jags at the QB position or something.
Was Kelly Stouffer or Stan Gelbaugh pretty good to you?

 

[toffee]

The Athletic ran a story about a test they're giving players called the S2 that Purdy scored extremely high:

If you watched Brock Purdy at last year’s NFL Scouting Combine, you would have seen a quarterback with below-average height, a merely adequate arm and foot speed that, while good, didn’t separate him from the pack.

The test he absolutely aced — and one that predicted his brilliant rookie season for the 49ers — was administered out of public view. Purdy landed in the mid 90s on something called the S2 Cognition test, a score you might consider Drew Brees-like.

The S2 isn’t an intelligence test like the 50-question Wonderlic exam but rather measures how quickly and accurately athletes process information. It’s like the 40-yard dash for the brain.

The exam lasts 40 to 45 minutes. It’s performed on a specially designed gaming laptop and response pad that can record reactions in two milliseconds. To put that in perspective, an eye blink lasts 100 to 150 milliseconds.

In one section of the exam, a series of diamonds flash on the screen for 16 milliseconds each. Every diamond is missing a point, and the test taker must determine — using left, right, up or down keys — which part is missing.

In another, the test seeks to find out how many objects an athlete can keep track of at the same time. In another, there are 22 figures on the screen and the athlete must locate a specific one as quickly as possible. The object might be a red triangle embedded in other shapes that are also red.

Introducing the S2 Cognition test that helps predict NFL quarterback success

The top NFL quarterbacks tend to score high on the S2 Cognition test that 800 draft prospects take each year. Purdy aced his exam last year.

theathletic.com

I couldn't find an S2 result for Howell.

Not to , but Howell kicked purdy's butt in winderlic.

 

[Hawkinaz]

We are drafting Plumlee in round 7. That’s the only reason they are bringing him to Seattle for a visit.

Or UDFA. I have seen players come n for a visit without being drafted

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Or UDFA. I have seen players come n for a visit without being drafted

Yep, need 90 bodies in training camp. You never know. Bears starting LB Jack Sanborn was a UDFA. We love the guy.

 

[Cyrus12]

Howell could quite possibly never take a meaningful snap for this team..

 

[xray]

Perhaps the Hawks wanted a scrambler type , tough QB , who can take a beating if need be . That's Howell I suppose .

 

[Spin Doctor]

He had the most pass attempts in the league, on a crap team behind a crap o line.

The only thing that's "ass" is your take. As usual.

Howell's offense line pass blocking actually rated higher than Seattle's did (14th), in addition to that his receivers were actually decent in Washington.

Howell's issue is he held onto the ball longer than just about any QB in the NFL. His style is a lot like Wilson in that he's always looking to create. Somebody compared him to a young Baker Mayfield and I think that's probably the most apt comparison here.

 

[toffee]

He hasn't even taken a snap yet. Until he does, we should all reserve judgment . That said, the chances of him succeeding and becoming a top ten, much less top five qbotf are very low based on his short history and the long history of 5th round qb's overall, so no one should be getting their hopes up. If he beats our expectations, then great, fantastic, good for everyone. If not, he's a cheap backup while we continue to kick the can down the road...

Logical deduction, but this is the off season and homers like toffee are running at full throttle.

 

[sc85sis]

The Athletic ran a story about a test they're giving players called the S2 that Purdy scored extremely high:

If you watched Brock Purdy at last year’s NFL Scouting Combine, you would have seen a quarterback with below-average height, a merely adequate arm and foot speed that, while good, didn’t separate him from the pack.

The test he absolutely aced — and one that predicted his brilliant rookie season for the 49ers — was administered out of public view. Purdy landed in the mid 90s on something called the S2 Cognition test, a score you might consider Drew Brees-like.

The S2 isn’t an intelligence test like the 50-question Wonderlic exam but rather measures how quickly and accurately athletes process information. It’s like the 40-yard dash for the brain.

The exam lasts 40 to 45 minutes. It’s performed on a specially designed gaming laptop and response pad that can record reactions in two milliseconds. To put that in perspective, an eye blink lasts 100 to 150 milliseconds.

In one section of the exam, a series of diamonds flash on the screen for 16 milliseconds each. Every diamond is missing a point, and the test taker must determine — using left, right, up or down keys — which part is missing.

In another, the test seeks to find out how many objects an athlete can keep track of at the same time. In another, there are 22 figures on the screen and the athlete must locate a specific one as quickly as possible. The object might be a red triangle embedded in other shapes that are also red.

Introducing the S2 Cognition test that helps predict NFL quarterback success

The top NFL quarterbacks tend to score high on the S2 Cognition test that 800 draft prospects take each year. Purdy aced his exam last year.

theathletic.com

I couldn't find an S2 result for Howell.

That’s the same test that Stroud supposedly bombed.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Perhaps the Hawks wanted a scrambler type , tough QB , who can take a beating if need be . That's Howell I suppose .

Honestly, that seems to be John's MO. Based on the QB's that he has been interested in, he seems to be enamored with the idea of QB's that can play off script. Even Aaron Rodgers fit this mold (John Schneider was one of the highest ranking football executives in Greenbay when they drafted Rodgers).

He definitely seems to have a type.

 

[xray]

Howell's offense line pass blocking actually rated higher than Seattle's did (14th), in addition to that his receivers were actually decent in Washington.

Howell's issue is he held onto the ball longer than just about any QB in the NFL. His style is a lot like Wilson in that he's always looking to create. Somebody compared him to a young Baker Mayfield and I think that's probably the most apt comparison here.

Howell compared to Mayfield ? ... Heisman Trophy guy... Baker Mayfield ?? Damn

 

[xray]

What is it with you and QB's ?
Like you feel sorry for ass/jags at the QB position or something.
Was Kelly Stouffer or Stan Gelbaugh pretty good to you?

He has a very private collection of gameday jocks , worn just once by Russell " Mr. Unlimited " Wilson . The ones with grass stains are the most valuable . Ask him .

 

[RiverDog]

Personally, I didn't like Howell in the 2022 draft and didn't like the fit here. Short RPO QB with terrible pocket awareness who hung onto the ball forever looking for big plays. NFL teams clearly felt the same way with him falling to the 5th round, and Schneider passed on him at least 5-6 times at the time.

Since then, he's had a couple of decent games where the scrambling and big plays connected but overall he has made a bad impression in the league. He didn't do any of the stuff last year that you need for an offense to stay on schedule consistently. His 21 INTs were actually low compared to his turnover worthy play rate (4.1%). Washington decided he wasn't it and moved on from him, and I don't see why anybody should more excited about him now than they were previously just because he's our roster now.

The numbers are a little confusing. On the one hand, Howell had one of the fastest time-to-throw numbers, which would mean what you've observed about him doesn't jive. But on the other hand, his pocket time, ie the time between the snap and when the QB either delivers the ball or the pocket collapses, was one of the slowest. The two don't add up.

As an example, Russell Wilson has one of the slowest TT numbers, one of the slowest pocket time numbers, and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league. That all makes sense. But in Howell's case, the time to throw number, which is relatively easy to measure, doesn't fit with the sacks/pocket time.

 

[chris98251]

Weird seeing Me3 fans, who were marks for him for a decade now hating the Howell trade. As was pointed out, Howell does a lot of Me3 things.

And a lot ME3 wouldn't, like listen to a Coach and Coaching, throw over the middle, to name a couple.

 

[AgentDib]

The numbers are a little confusing. On the one hand, Howell had one of the fastest time-to-throw numbers, which would mean what you've observed about him doesn't jive. But on the other hand, his pocket time, ie the time between the snap and when the QB either delivers the ball or the pocket collapses, was one of the slowest. The two don't add up.

Howell's time to throw has been 2.86s and 2.88s in his first two seasons which I believe puts him slightly slower than average. However, I'm not sure that stat is meaningful across teams when it's just averaging every single drop back. Maybe you could normalize by average depth of target or something, but that still would miss that sacks are often a QB stat even when they happen quickly.

Howell has always been a sack magnet. He took 45 sacks his last year at UNC with ~65 broken tackles against ACC defenses. I do respect his toughness, but it's completely to be expected that the broken tackles didn't translate when facing NFL defensive linemen.

As another stat point, consider that after week 6 of last season the Commanders were graded as 8th best OL pass block win rate (PFF) and yet Sam Howell was on pace for the highest sack total in NFL history. Making sense of that involves some combination of Howell running himself into sacks, missing blitzers, and/or PFF grades being inaccurate.

 

[toffee]

Howell's time to throw has been 2.86s and 2.88s in his first two seasons which I believe puts him slightly slower than average. However, I'm not sure that stat is meaningful across teams when it's just averaging every single drop back. Maybe you could normalize by average depth of target or something, but that still would miss that sacks are often a QB stat even when they happen quickly.

Howell has always been a sack magnet. He took 45 sacks his last year at UNC with ~65 broken tackles against ACC defenses. I do respect his toughness, but it's completely to be expected that the broken tackles didn't translate when facing NFL defensive linemen.

As another stat point, consider that after week 6 of last season the Commanders were graded as 8th best OL pass block win rate (PFF) and yet Sam Howell was on pace for the highest sack total in NFL history. Making sense of that involves some combination of Howell running himself into sacks, missing blitzers, and/or PFF grades being inaccurate.

There could be a few possibilities. Howell tried to play hero ball, Howell has poor pocket awareness and presence, or his football IQ.