Sam Howell is Geno's Backup!!

[sutz]

This is why I hate what fantasy football has done to the NFL.

 

[Jac]

JS says Geno is starter, and Howell is only brought in as his backup. So unless Geno is seriously injured, management won’t have much chance to develop and evaluate Howell as QB1 replacement for Geno.

That’s GM speak. They both have to learn the new offense. They’ll both make a lot of throws in training camp and preseason. Howell could play his way into starter or Geno out of it. Or not. But Geno doesn’t have an ironclad grip on the starting role.

 

[SeahawksBMX]

Five months ago, I posted a thread about Howell on reddit's NFL sub. It got zero upvotes and comprises 130 comments - mostly calling me stupid - but I think it was interesting nonetheless:

Title: To put in context what Sam Howell is doing, the last time a team found their franchise QB in the fifth round was when the Rams selected future HOFer Bob Waterfield in 1944

Body: The only other franchise QB even selected in the fifth round was Mark Brunell by the Packers in 1993. Over two seasons in Green Bay, Brunell completed 12 of 27 passes for 95 yards. He was then traded to Jacksonville in 1995 for a third and sixth rounder. In regards to contributions to the teams that drafted them, the best since Waterfield are guys like AJ Feeley, TJ Yates, Mike McMahon and Dan Orlovsky, who had their moments but never came anywhere close to becoming franchise QBs.

It now has an upvote

 

[flv2]

You have to go back to my debate with @Bear-Hawk. Here's what he said:

That is why Seahawks should trade up to #9 with the Bears. The opportunity will probably be WORSE in 2025. And even if you don’t get Nix or McCarthy at #9, you get your pick of the best defensive linemen. That’s not a bad consolation prize!

He's advocating trading up to #9 prior to the draft, that simply moving up 7 slots for some unknown player is a good idea. That's why I went on my rant about trading up in the first round for a quarterback. It's already a risky proposition, and even riskier if you haven't homed in on a specific target.

As I said earlier, I don't mind trading up IF we are sure that our man is going to be there. I don't want to be blindly selling the farm on a very expensive trade...and trading into the top 10 is hugely expensive...unless we know he's going to be there, and the only way to know that will be when #9 is on the clock.

I've also expressed confidence in our GM's ability to judge quarterbacks and that if he wants to trade up to get one, then I'm all for it.

I agree. To be honest I completely dismissed what was posted. No-one trades up for a consolation prize. You trade up for a specific player - your guy, or at worst whichever 1 of 2 guys remain. Only if the guy is there at #9 would the Seahawks trade up with the Bears. A trade for a lower pick, such as the Vikings have made, is rare. Most likely they are acquiring trade capital that is more desirable to other teams for a 2nd trade up.

 

[Hawkinaz]

JS says Geno is starter, and Howell is only brought in as his backup. So unless Geno is seriously injured, management won’t have much chance to develop and evaluate Howell as QB1 replacement for Geno.

Lately I have seen JS to be a BS artist making excuses. 2 examples is why Miami signed Jordyn Brooks because he was busy with Williams and the reason Drew Lock signed with the Giants was he was told he would have a chance to compete for the starter job which a source close to the Giants says is false.

all this makes me reconsider what JS had to say about past QBs Josh Allen and Mahomes how he liked and wanted to draft them that’s easy to say after the fact. I am close to the point that I won’t believe anything he says at least 1 thing about PC is when he said something he was truthful

 

[Seahawker]

I am a fan of both teams. Getting a QB is more important than whether you have +/- one pick in 2025. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I feel that we will waste two years with Howell before drafting a QB.

For the Seahawks to move from 16 to 9 would be extremely costly & risky for a team in vital need of long term starters at both O-line and defensively. This trade would however greatly add to the Bears already huge draft cache and help pick them off the floor of the NFC North.
At this point I'm actually hoping John will not find a trade down partner and be forced to pick a plug & play starter (lineman) at 16.
We can't do it all in one year and shouldn't dilute our resources trying, unless you want more backup quality depth players and substandard starters.

 

[olyfan63]

Time will tell. Let's see if the NFL figured him out this year or not. Baker and CJ had remarkably similar rookie years.

CJ Stroud rookie year

GP	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	SACK	RTG	QBR
15	319	499	63.9	4,108	8.2	23	5	75	38	100.8	57.5

Baker Mayfield rookie year

SEASON	TM	GP	CMP	ATT	PCT	ATT/G	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	TD	TD%	INT	INT%	LNG	SCK	SCKY	FUM	LOST	RATE
2018	CLE	14	310	486	63.8	34.7	3,725	7.7	266.1	27	5.6	14	2.9	71	25	173	7	3	93.7

Stroud had a clearly better rookie year, 23 TD to 5 INT, vs. Baker's 27 TD to 14 INT. But it's not a bad comparison, Baker is in the ballpark, and he's had a career resurgence last season.
I don't see any reason why Stroud's performance would take a nosedive his sophomore year, barring injury. Yes, the NFL could "figure him out", or he could lose key weapons, and be less effective.

Let's check in around week 17 and see how Stroud's doing.

 

[DirectMessage]

Stroud had a clearly better rookie year, 23 TD to 5 INT, vs. Baker's 27 TD to 14 INT. But it's not a bad comparison, Baker is in the ballpark, and he's had a career resurgence last season.
I don't see any reason why Stroud's performance would take a nosedive his sophomore year, barring injury. Yes, the NFL could "figure him out", or he could lose key weapons, and be less effective.

Let's check in around week 17 and see how Stroud's doing.

I'm not down on Stroud, tbf. I would hesitate to mortgage the future to move up and get that guy. All these guys are so close on a NFL roster, that it really does comes to system and organization they are in. It's almost more bang for you buck to trade your picks for young guys that never quite hit on their current team. I do hope we draft C, LT, and LB in this draft. Those are your foundations on any team. We shall see.

 

[olyfan63]

I'm not down on Stroud, tbf. I would hesitate to mortgage the future to move up and get that guy. All these guys are so close on a NFL roster, that it really does comes to system and organization they are in. It's almost more bang for you buck to trade your picks for young guys that never quite hit on their current team. I do hope we draft C, LT, and LB in this draft. Those are your foundations on any team. We shall see.

It's a good assertion to test. Baker is a good poster child for a great rookie year followed by several seasons of mediocrity. I'm rooting for Stroud to do well, seems like a good dude.

 

[oldhawkfan]

That is my plan with Bo Nix. All I am trading is a second round pick. Build around him like the 49ers with Purdy. You don’t need Mahomes to win a Super Bowl. I just don’t (yet) see Howell in that role.

Except that the 49ers did not build around Purdy. That team was already built and they lucked into a 7th round QB that can actually play. That team was already built and ready to compete which is why they spent a shit ton just to move up and grab Trey Lance. Because the team was already built, the draft capitol wasted on Lance had a smaller risk/reward scenario.

I wish I could find the direct quote, but my memory will have to suffice. Back when Pete Carroll and John Schneider came aboard the Seahawks express, one or both of them basically said, “we aren’t going to chase the QB position. We are going to let it come to us.”

Even though JS advocated drafting Wilson higher than the 3rd round, they didn’t chase the position by allocating valuable draft assets to find their QB. Pete and John were hired in 2010. Wilson wasn’t drafted until 2012. While they built up the team in other areas, they ran with Tarvaris Jackson. The 2012 draft filled in the remaining holes and provided the starting QB for the next 10 years.

I see a similar progression with this iteration of the Seahawks. There are still plenty of holes to fill. By using valuable draft capitol to chase a potential QB, those holes will take longer to fill. If this iteration of Seahawks football is even close to what we had in 2010, then they are most likely farther along in player acquisitions. Geno is better than Tarvaris Jackson ever was and Howell adds a bit of intrigue to the process.

Once this roster is built back into a contender, the QB position will be either already established (Howell, Smith or someone else) or be ready to spend draft capitol either through a trade or the draft to get the right guy.

 

[RiverDog]

Except that the 49ers did not build around Purdy. That team was already built and they lucked into a 7th round QB that can actually play. That team was already built and ready to compete which is why they spent a shit ton just to move up and grab Trey Lance. Because the team was already built, the draft capitol wasted on Lance had a smaller risk/reward scenario.

I wish I could find the direct quote, but my memory will have to suffice. Back when Pete Carroll and John Schneider came aboard the Seahawks express, one or both of them basically said, “we aren’t going to chase the QB position. We are going to let it come to us.”

Even though JS advocated drafting Wilson higher than the 3rd round, they didn’t chase the position by allocating valuable draft assets to find their QB. Pete and John were hired in 2010. Wilson wasn’t drafted until 2012. While they built up the team in other areas, they ran with Tarvaris Jackson. The 2012 draft filled in the remaining holes and provided the starting QB for the next 10 years.

I see a similar progression with this iteration of the Seahawks. There are still plenty of holes to fill. By using valuable draft capitol to chase a potential QB, those holes will take longer to fill. If this iteration of Seahawks football is even close to what we had in 2010, then they are most likely farther along in player acquisitions. Geno is better than Tarvaris Jackson ever was and Howell adds a bit of intrigue to the process.

Once this roster is built back into a contender, the QB position will be either already established (Howell, Smith or someone else) or be ready to spend draft capitol either through a trade or the draft to get the right guy.

The irony for me is that when we drafted Russell Wilson I was upset because I thought that we over paid, that he could have been had for a 5th or a 6th rounder. I remember debating a friend of mine who wanted to take Kellen Moore over Russell. JS definitely knew what he was doing, at least on that occasion.

 

[Grahamhawker]

Except that the 49ers did not build around Purdy. That team was already built and they lucked into a 7th round QB that can actually play. That team was already built and ready to compete which is why they spent a shit ton just to move up and grab Trey Lance. Because the team was already built, the draft capitol wasted on Lance had a smaller risk/reward scenario.

I wish I could find the direct quote, but my memory will have to suffice. Back when Pete Carroll and John Schneider came aboard the Seahawks express, one or both of them basically said, “we aren’t going to chase the QB position. We are going to let it come to us.”

Even though JS advocated drafting Wilson higher than the 3rd round, they didn’t chase the position by allocating valuable draft assets to find their QB. Pete and John were hired in 2010. Wilson wasn’t drafted until 2012. While they built up the team in other areas, they ran with Tarvaris Jackson. The 2012 draft filled in the remaining holes and provided the starting QB for the next 10 years.

I see a similar progression with this iteration of the Seahawks. There are still plenty of holes to fill. By using valuable draft capitol to chase a potential QB, those holes will take longer to fill. If this iteration of Seahawks football is even close to what we had in 2010, then they are most likely farther along in player acquisitions. Geno is better than Tarvaris Jackson ever was and Howell adds a bit of intrigue to the process.

Once this roster is built back into a contender, the QB position will be either already established (Howell, Smith or someone else) or be ready to spend draft capitol either through a trade or the draft to get the right guy.

Best post of the thread, perhaps!

 

[12AngryHawks]

Lately I have seen JS to be a BS artist making excuses.

I've grown skeptical of JS myself lately as well. It's not so much how he builds/maintains the roster, he's gotten better at that, it's what he says, and whether or not he means it. Like how he says he wanted to draft more QB's but never did, or whether what he said about Lock going to the Giants is true.

 

[DirectMessage]

I've grown skeptical of JS myself lately as well. It's not so much how he builds/maintains the roster, he's gotten better at that, it's what he says, and whether or not he means it. Like how he says he wanted to draft more QB's but never did, or whether what he said about Lock going to the Giants is true.

Aren't all GM's professional liars and used to bluffing you?

 

[DarkVictory23]

I've grown skeptical of JS myself lately as well. It's not so much how he builds/maintains the roster, he's gotten better at that, it's what he says, and whether or not he means it. Like how he says he wanted to draft more QB's but never did, or whether what he said about Lock going to the Giants is true.

Let's be real here: Drew is definitely being considered for possibly starting. The Giants are doing clean-up because Schneider blew up their spot. We know this because they are paying Drew Lock $5 million.

Teams with healthy, prime years QBs either have backup QBs on rookie deals or bring in someone for like 1 or 2 million. They don't pay $5 million to a backup who they don't expect to play when their young starter who they are happy with has a cap hit of like $45 million. Look at what the Niners are paying for Purdy's current backup or what KC is paying Blaine Gabbert.

 

[Seahawker]

I've grown skeptical of JS myself lately as well. It's not so much how he builds/maintains the roster, he's gotten better at that, it's what he says, and whether or not he means it. Like how he says he wanted to draft more QB's but never did, or whether what he said about Lock going to the Giants is true.

Maybe John should be more honest with the press so the guys at dotnet don't feel so left out of the loup & make the fantasy footballers feel more important?
I happen to think PC was likely the fly in the ointment draft-wise and willing to give JS a couple of offseasons to right the ship. We know where the problems are, O-Line & defense, no excuses find some football players.
If John muffs up the draft and his hand picked FA vets don't perform, I'll be calling for his head until he's gone. But for now I think he is one of the best GM's in the league.
The CJ Stroud's of this league are rare. Last year I saw him as the best of the class, this year it looks more like a crap shoot. I'm just glad Howell is in the fold.

 

[sutz]

at all the hype about Schneider "lying." We're coming into draft season. He's trying to make deals. He is of course going to be talking in codes and maybes. No way he's gonna say something that reveals what his coming draft strategy is going to be or who and what he's gonna target.



It's not "lying," it's gamemanship and the NFL version of political speech. Always leave them guessing.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

But your plan is to just trade with the Bears for #9 this year. We don't have that pick. Why are we comparing a draft pick we already don't have to any future draft pick that we don't have?

You can mortgage the farm any year you want. We don't have to draft middle round or lower next year. We could easily trade for a top 10 pick next year if we want to give up the capital. I get it, as a Bears fan, you want that excess draft capital to go to Chicago but as a fan of the Seahawks, I don't care (and neither does the Seahawks front office) about that capital going to the Bears.

Additionally, with the number of QB desperate teams at the top, we don't appreciably improve the odds this year by going up from #16 to #9. We'll go from being able to possibly draft the 4th-6th best QB in this draft class to being able to possibly draft the 4th-6th best QB in this draft class.

If we want to draft a top QB, any trade that's not targeting getting into the top 6 isn't really worth considering and, frankly, I find the idea of trading up just to get the 4th (or worse) best QB kind of nuts.

The proposal is to swap the Bears #9 pick for the Seahawks #16 pick in 2024 and second round pick in 2025. That is a fair trade according to the draft value chart.

But your plan is to just trade with the Bears for #9 this year. We don't have that pick. Why are we comparing a draft pick we already don't have to any future draft pick that we don't have?

You can mortgage the farm any year you want. We don't have to draft middle round or lower next year. We could easily trade for a top 10 pick next year if we want to give up the capital. I get it, as a Bears fan, you want that excess draft capital to go to Chicago but as a fan of the Seahawks, I don't care (and neither does the Seahawks front office) about that capital going to the Bears.

Additionally, with the number of QB desperate teams at the top, we don't appreciably improve the odds this year by going up from #16 to #9. We'll go from being able to possibly draft the 4th-6th best QB in this draft class to being able to possibly draft the 4th-6th best QB in this draft class.

If we want to draft a top QB, any trade that's not targeting getting into the top 6 isn't really worth considering and, frankly, I find the idea of trading up just to get the 4th (or worse) best QB kind of nuts.

The proposal is to swap the Bears #9 pick for the Seahawks #16 pick in 2024 plus Seahawks second round pick in 2025. That is a fair trade according to the draft value chart.

Seahawks would GREATLY improve getting the #4 QB after the top-3 go right off the bat. Then you have Vikings, and Broncos draft ahead of you unless you move up to #9. Of course, as I said, if you are content to take whatever #6 falls to #16, be my guest.

Next year the cost would be greater if the Seahawks W-L record is better this year. I believe it will be. Moreover, it is projected that this year’s QB class is going to be better than the 2025. So you risk paying more for less. Plus, the Seahawks will be more desperate next year with Geno close to going out the door. You lose leverage in the negotiation. I predict Poles will WANT to trade #9, if Odunze is off the board. and Eberflus doesn’t beat the table too hard for a defensive lineman.

Bottom line: This is a good trade for both teams.

 

[Seahawker]

^ Seems like Bear-Hawk has gone full Ditka mode on this "good trade for both teams" deal, lol. Carry on.
Da Bears, Da Hawks.

 

[DarkVictory23]

The proposal is to swap the Bears #9 pick for the Seahawks #16 pick in 2024 and second round pick in 2025. That is a fair trade according to the draft value chart.

The proposal is to swap the Bears #9 pick for the Seahawks #16 pick in 2024 plus Seahawks second round pick in 2025. That is a fair trade according to the draft value chart.

Seahawks would GREATLY improve getting the #4 QB after the top-3 go right off the bat. Then you have Vikings, and Broncos draft ahead of you unless you move up to #9. Of course, as I said, if you are content to take whatever #6 falls to #16, be my guest.

Next year the cost would be greater if the Seahawks W-L record is better this year. I believe it will be. Moreover, it is projected that this year’s QB class is going to be better than the 2025. So you risk paying more for less. Plus, the Seahawks will be more desperate next year with Geno close to going out the door. You lose leverage in the negotiation. I predict Poles will WANT to trade #9, if Odunze is off the board. and Eberflus doesn’t beat the table too hard for a defensive lineman.

Bottom line: This is a good trade for both teams.

Whose proposal is this, though? And why wouldn't the Broncos or Vikings offer more for the same deal, since they are in worse QB situations than the Seahawks?

And you continue to miss the point that I said I find the idea of trading up to get the #4 QB is fundamentally poor judgement. I don't buy that McCarthy, Nix, or Penix are first round prospects in a regular year without so many teams drafting QB early in the draft. (Certainly not in the top half of the first round.)