Russell Wilson short/ intermediate/ over the middle passes.

[Maelstrom787]

I thought this is what I saw from Russell this last week. I think it is more to do with Pete than russell or waldron.







I really liked when I saw us attacking the middle and the middle edges vs the vikes. Then it just stopped.

I think this really does show what Pete likes to do.

It is he wrote about it in his book. It's called attacking the red line. there have been posts about it. The problem is the one pushing this false narrative don't care about the truth,

No, they just disagree with you. This isn't a cabal of shadowy figures, it's just people who realize that shitty cherry-picked stats don't define a narrative.

 

[IndyHawk]

Hello to the RW nuthugger(s)
The issue is people that have all 22 can see RW ignoring or not seeing wide open WR's
in short/intermediate middle for trying deep stuff or tight sideline passes.
Some of the sacks he takes while waiting for deep balls while there are guys open around the
middle.He sabotages himself as Chris Code says - giving up 65% of the turf by not using
it.You think good defenses are scared of him besides the great deep passes he can throw?
He has to use the whole field passing or he's done.The legs are going and the RO is dead.

 

[Scorpion05]

The actual truth is, most QBs don't throw over the middle often. This is just a narrative for Russell Wilson critics who need something else to nitpick at. Because they have a deep, psychological need to put him down. They'll be the first to praise the FLAWLESS Drew Brees, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers though. As I've always said, this isn't about sports for some of these people. It's deep rooted bias.

Russ threw to the middle a few times in the Vikings game. The narrative that he can't see over the line is something that was never rooted in facts. Kyler Murray also throws over the middle.

Add this narrative to the other Russell Wilson narratives that have died in recent years:

- Russell Wilson can't carry a team without a good defense.
- Russell Wilson can't see over his linemen, which is why he is such a bad Redzone QB. Then Schotty came in and we were no longer bad in the red zone.
- Russell Wilson (under Bevell) is great in the 4th quarter, because he's stat padding and defenses are playing Prevent (lol).
- Russell Wilson (under Bevell) isn't disciplined enough to orchestrate an opening drive touchdown. Then Russell Wilson (under Schotty) became a GREAT redzone QB somehow.
- Russell Wilson (under Bevell) only excels in the second half of the season, because teams start to play more running game/defense in the second half of the season. And Russ can't play in colder weather.
- Russell Wilson disappears in the second half of the season. Despite him excelling in the second half of the season under Bevell (hint, it was Schotty).
- Russell Wilson can't stay in the pocket (under Bevell). But then suddenly could stay in the pocket (under Schotty).


I don't know what Waldron's tendencies are. What I do know is that Russell Wilson is extremely coachable and has been a different QB in terms of performance under now 3 coordinators.

Oh Really, this says otherwise and I was just barely looking and it only includes a hand full of guys so far.

I said most QBs don't throw over the middle that often . You responded by showing me Goff, Stafford, and Matt Ryan charts showing they don't throw over the middle that often. Or they have several incompletions, making it a risky area usually. Most QBs throw to the outside, or on the deep left or right. To make it seem as if every QB is frequently exploiting the middle of the field is dishonest.

Even worse, each one of those QBs you can point to another flaw they have far worse than Wilson. They either don't throw deep as well, can't extend plays. And score far less touchdowns or pass for less yards.

So my point stands. Most QBs don't throw over the middle that often. There are some who frequently do, like Tom Brady and Derek Carr. And even then, in general (especially against tough defenses with great safeties/linebackers), they tend to avoid the middle of the field to keep turnovers low. What I'm saying isn't controversial. The "Russ doesn't throw over the middle" narrative is kind of overblown.

 

[Scorpion05]

Hello to the RW nuthugger(s)
The issue is people that have all 22 can see RW ignoring or not seeing wide open WR's
in short/intermediate middle for trying deep stuff or tight sideline passes.
Some of the sacks he takes while waiting for deep balls while there are guys open around the
middle.He sabotages himself as Chris Code says - giving up 65% of the turf by not using
it.You think good defenses are scared of him besides the great deep passes he can throw?
He has to use the whole field passing or he's done.The legs are going and the RO is dead.

Oh, well since we're getting so personal:

Hello to the "RW nuthuggers." Kind of offensive for a debate, but okay. A "nuthugger" can also be those who hate Russ so much, they don't actually follow the facts.

The all 22 showed that the O-line performed poorly in the back half of last year, that his 1st designed read is typically another route, and that defenses knew Schotty's predictable scheme.

Part of being fair minded (and not hateful), is being open to the fact that you are being unfair. Considering ALL the facts, not just the ones that suit your argument. For example, actual analytics prove the O-line performed poorly in the 2nd half of 2020. Independent of Russ' performance/sacks, they got beat. No one is clamoring to have Ethan Pocic or Kyle Fuller block for their team.

Or for example, I think Norton is terrible, that is what my eyes are telling me. It does not mean I'm not open to an argument that says Norton is doing a good job but is under poor circumstances. It's unlikely, but I'm open to it. People like yourself make up your mind.

Russ does not "give up 65% of the turf." This is factually inaccurate, and even if this was somehow true, what you're really arguing is he's managed to be top 3 in touchdowns for 4 years despite not using 65% of the turf. Either you and others are being unreasonable (and possibly hateful). Or, Russ is unstoppable for 35% of the turf and blows away other QBs in that 35%. The actual facts are, Russ has shown he can (and does) usually make every throw. And the throws he avoids, are usually because they are at risk of turning the ball over. Stop pretending as if Russ' 25-30 attempts are all deep throws, it's embarrassing.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nuthuggers? Yep, this page gets worse and worse. That's about as lame as sunshine pumpers.
Anyway, have a great weekend and GO HAWKS.

 

[chris98251]

The actual truth is, most QBs don't throw over the middle often. This is just a narrative for Russell Wilson critics who need something else to nitpick at. Because they have a deep, psychological need to put him down. They'll be the first to praise the FLAWLESS Drew Brees, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers though. As I've always said, this isn't about sports for some of these people. It's deep rooted bias.

Russ threw to the middle a few times in the Vikings game. The narrative that he can't see over the line is something that was never rooted in facts. Kyler Murray also throws over the middle.

Add this narrative to the other Russell Wilson narratives that have died in recent years:

- Russell Wilson can't carry a team without a good defense.
- Russell Wilson can't see over his linemen, which is why he is such a bad Redzone QB. Then Schotty came in and we were no longer bad in the red zone.
- Russell Wilson (under Bevell) is great in the 4th quarter, because he's stat padding and defenses are playing Prevent (lol).
- Russell Wilson (under Bevell) isn't disciplined enough to orchestrate an opening drive touchdown. Then Russell Wilson (under Schotty) became a GREAT redzone QB somehow.
- Russell Wilson (under Bevell) only excels in the second half of the season, because teams start to play more running game/defense in the second half of the season. And Russ can't play in colder weather.
- Russell Wilson disappears in the second half of the season. Despite him excelling in the second half of the season under Bevell (hint, it was Schotty).
- Russell Wilson can't stay in the pocket (under Bevell). But then suddenly could stay in the pocket (under Schotty).


I don't know what Waldron's tendencies are. What I do know is that Russell Wilson is extremely coachable and has been a different QB in terms of performance under now 3 coordinators.

Oh Really, this says otherwise and I was just barely looking and it only includes a hand full of guys so far.

I said most QBs don't throw over the middle that often . You responded by showing me Goff, Stafford, and Matt Ryan charts showing they don't throw over the middle that often. Or they have several incompletions, making it a risky area usually. Most QBs throw to the outside, or on the deep left or right. To make it seem as if every QB is frequently exploiting the middle of the field is dishonest.

Even worse, each one of those QBs you can point to another flaw they have far worse than Wilson. They either don't throw deep as well, can't extend plays. And score far less touchdowns or pass for less yards.

So my point stands. Most QBs don't throw over the middle that often. There are some who frequently do, like Tom Brady and Derek Carr. And even then, in general (especially against tough defenses with great safeties/linebackers), they tend to avoid the middle of the field to keep turnovers low. What I'm saying isn't controversial. The "Russ doesn't throw over the middle" narrative is kind of overblown.

You chose a couple of QB's to point out, Brady Rodgers, and in random clicks I picked Stafford, Bridgewater, Hurt as well as Ryan all over the charts as far as level of ratings yet they use the middle, Stafford, Rodgers don't use a deep ball? Just like the other Carboard cut out worshippers, you prove their statements false and they want to go to the But, But statements next.

 

[Scorpion05]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GoodGuyAtSports/status/1443921426449268739[/tweet]

 

[Scorpion05]

For those who can't see the full breakdown, here it is. Like I said, there seems to be an actual commitment to deny the reality/facts of Russell Wilson's actual performance and accomplishments. Russ does throw over the middle and he's shown that he can do it well over the years. He is also with a DEFENSIVE coach that emphasizes "protecting" the ball.

Russ in 2016



Russ in 2017



Russ in 2018



Russ in 2019



Russ in 2020

 

[Grahamhawker]

Obviously he CAN! I think an argument is he often just doesn't. He's a great QB. The team has survived on RW's heroics for far too long and I think he and the team are addicted to it. Very few QBs could pull off what he has with the team around him. I think there's plenty of opportunity to take what's given from the D that is passed up for the chance at the homerun. It's won a lot of games, but the question remains how long is it sustainable?

 

[Boycie]

I know he is getting up there in age, but when he was at his best, the read option helped him a lot. I know he wants to be a passing QB, but why not add back some of that threat of him keeping the ball taking off?

Told you!

 

[BASF]

and you also heard the same stories from multiple seahawks players, most recently trey flowers and dj reed and yet the blame still falls on russell wilson, yet yall still defend pete carroll. every qb has weaknesses, but yall are using wilson's "weaknesses" as a green light to deflect from pete carroll. all in all, wilson is gonna be good wherever he goes, pete carroll is gonna have to find someone else to cover for him, all of pete carroll's flaws will be shown unless he retires. then what? without wilson, what's the game plan?

This post right here is why this board is barely readable anymore. I want you to name names on the posters here who are deflecting from Carroll's flaws. Making valid points that Wilson bares some of the blame for the teams woes is not giving Pete Carroll a pass. As I pointed out earlier today in a different post Wilson has been in the top half of the league and usually top ten in pass attempts for the past five seasons and this current one. So, if we are using Wilson more than most other QB's, how exactly is Carroll holding him back? Be specific.

If you are going to use last season where Wilson's turnovers cost us home field advantage and Carroll rightly pulled the reins, I will remind you that we started to face good defenses and still won five of our last six games.

I have my own issues with Carroll as the head coach, but this tired narrative that people on this board are "defending" Carroll when posters should not be has gotten out of hand. It is practically impossible to read a post on this board without someone making Carroll a villain in Russell Wilson's story.

 

[John63]

I know he is getting up there in age, but when he was at his best, the read option helped him a lot. I know he wants to be a passing QB, but why not add back some of that threat of him keeping the ball taking off?

Told you!

Ahh he never kept it on the read option so ahh you didn't tell anyone else anything.

 

[Boycie]

I know he is getting up there in age, but when he was at his best, the read option helped him a lot. I know he wants to be a passing QB, but why not add back some of that threat of him keeping the ball taking off?

Told you!

Ahh he never kept it on the read option so ahh you didn't tell anyone else anything.

WTF is with you and your “ahh” junk?

 

[Grahamhawker]

I need to stop thinking there's going to be something interesting, constructive, or original in this or the "average" thread.

 

[John63]

I know he is getting up there in age, but when he was at his best, the read option helped him a lot. I know he wants to be a passing QB, but why not add back some of that threat of him keeping the ball taking off?

Told you!

Ahh he never kept it on the read option so ahh you didn't tell anyone else anything.

WTF is with you and your “ahh” junk?

WTF is with you and you I told you so.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:snack: