Russell Wilson short/ intermediate/ over the middle passes.

[Maelstrom787]

"keep in mind that the Seahawks are a red line team." as was brought to my attention by another poster and PC wrote a book where he make sit clear why we like to pass to the sidelines.

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/8/5/5959491/jaguars-practice-redline-seahawks-pete-carroll

This is a 7 year old post by a Jaguars blog. I mean, this is almost parody at this point.

Did you read the post? of course not. It is also in PCs book and so what if it was x years ago nothing has changed that is what PC wants.

Some of you have complained about this so-called not throwing over the middle for ways so now you know why they don't do it much.

Now you can handle the truth that is your problem. BUt the facts clearly show he has thrown over middle both short and intermediate, and while he does not do it a lot the facts also who that is a PC thing.

Also, try reading the post if you can.

Somehow the laughingstock of the board finds some time to add a smudge of condescension to his post, as sort of a cherry on top. Excellent.

Yeah, bud. I read the post, not that there was much substance there.

You're going almost a decade back to justify a clear and widely observed issue with Russell's play. 2 coordinators ago. The offensive scheme is so vastly different that its hardly recognizable. Things change. You yourself are the POSTER CHILD for "we cn't no wat petye carol is saying to ruskel willins abot the midl of the feld," so I'm not sure why you'd ever think that nearly decade-old blog posts about Pete Carroll's philosophy are irrefutably relevant today.

No one is saying the guy hasn't thrown a single pass in the middle of the field. I know he's thrown over the middle before. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by saying a clear truth that no one is arguing against.

 

[John63]

This is a 7 year old post by a Jaguars blog. I mean, this is almost parody at this point.

Did you read the post? of course not. It is also in PCs book and so what if it was x years ago nothing has changed that is what PC wants.

Some of you have complained about this so-called not throwing over the middle for ways so now you know why they don't do it much.

Now you can handle the truth that is your problem. BUt the facts clearly show he has thrown over middle both short and intermediate, and while he does not do it a lot the facts also who that is a PC thing.

Also, try reading the post if you can.

Somehow the laughingstock of the board finds some time to add a smudge of condescension to his post, as sort of a cherry on top. Excellent.

Yeah, bud. I read the post, not that there was much substance there.

You're going almost a decade back to justify a clear and widely observed issue with Russell's play. 2 coordinators ago. The offensive scheme is so vastly different that its hardly recognizable. Things change. You yourself are the POSTER CHILD for "we cn't no wat petye carol is saying to ruskel willins abot the midl of the feld," so I'm not sure why you'd ever think that nearly decade-old blog posts about Pete Carroll's philosophy are irrefutably relevant today.

No one is saying the guy hasn't thrown a single pass in the middle of the field. I know he's thrown over the middle before. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by saying a clear truth that no one is arguing against.

okay, so your whole post is nothing but ramblings, attempts at belittling me, etc etc. Once again the original narrative was he does not, we showed that was a lie, When you decide on a narrative that you will stick to let me know until then you're wrong.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I seem to remember lots of these kinds of passes when we were coming from behind with only a few minutes left in the game.

One that stands out is the Vikings game with that crazy catch by Metcalf in the EZ but there were others.

It is probably true that he reverts to the sidelines in stress, but he has been coaches with way for a decade - what do you expect? However, when he has to have the 1st down, the clock is ticking, and we are behind? He makes all the throws people accuse him of not being able to do or not taking enough.







Also

It is really weird that when the flaming dumpsterfire that loses us games is Ken Norton and his failure crew D, there is so much being posted about Wilson...as if he needs to take blame for these losses.

This is ALL on the defense. Sure the offense underperformed but the defense is the failure, the offense is still not where we want it. Big difference.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I seem to remember lots of these kinds of passes when we were coming from behind with only a few minutes left in the game.

One that stands out is the Vikings game with that crazy catch by Metcalf in the EZ but there were others.

It is probably true that he reverts to the sidelines in stress, but he has been coaches with way for a decade - what do you expect? However, when he has to have the 1st down, the clock is ticking, and we are behind? He makes all the throws people accuse him of not being able to do or not taking enough.







Also

It is really weird that when the flaming dumpsterfire that loses us games is Ken Norton and his failure crew D, there is so much being posted about Wilson...as if he needs to take blame for these losses.

This is ALL on the defense. Sure the offense underperformed but the defense is the failure, the offense is still not where we want it. Big difference.

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

If Russell is as good as he and everyone else thinks he is, it shouldn't matter how long he's been coached to do what. And I'm not convinced that's the case anyway. If Russell was truly being actively handcuffed by Pete, he wouldn't have signed his last deal. His reputation in the league was firmly in place. He would've entered the market at that time.

 

[sdog1981]

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

That is just a silly statement. The Seahawks are 32nd in the NFL in total defense. They have the 30th ranked run defense and 26th passing defense. They give up over 440 yards per game.

How many yards would the defense need to give up before you stop talking about Wilson? 450 yards? 550 yards? The Seahawks are historically bad on defense, in the running to dethrone the 2012 Saints who gave up over 7000 yards in a 16 game season and that was only 437 yards per game.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Did you read the post? of course not. It is also in PCs book and so what if it was x years ago nothing has changed that is what PC wants.

Some of you have complained about this so-called not throwing over the middle for ways so now you know why they don't do it much.

Now you can handle the truth that is your problem. BUt the facts clearly show he has thrown over middle both short and intermediate, and while he does not do it a lot the facts also who that is a PC thing.

Also, try reading the post if you can.

Somehow the laughingstock of the board finds some time to add a smudge of condescension to his post, as sort of a cherry on top. Excellent.

Yeah, bud. I read the post, not that there was much substance there.

You're going almost a decade back to justify a clear and widely observed issue with Russell's play. 2 coordinators ago. The offensive scheme is so vastly different that its hardly recognizable. Things change. You yourself are the POSTER CHILD for "we cn't no wat petye carol is saying to ruskel willins abot the midl of the feld," so I'm not sure why you'd ever think that nearly decade-old blog posts about Pete Carroll's philosophy are irrefutably relevant today.

No one is saying the guy hasn't thrown a single pass in the middle of the field. I know he's thrown over the middle before. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by saying a clear truth that no one is arguing against.

okay, so your whole post is nothing but ramblings, attempts at belittling me, etc etc. Once again the original narrative was he does not, we showed that was a lie, When you decide on a narrative that you will stick to let me know until then you're wrong.

Not a single person on this board has ever claimed that Russell Wilson NEVER throws to these areas, and you are either illiterate or a downright liar if you're claiming otherwise.

 

[Tinamedina]

I seem to remember lots of these kinds of passes when we were coming from behind with only a few minutes left in the game.

One that stands out is the Vikings game with that crazy catch by Metcalf in the EZ but there were others.

It is probably true that he reverts to the sidelines in stress, but he has been coaches with way for a decade - what do you expect? However, when he has to have the 1st down, the clock is ticking, and we are behind? He makes all the throws people accuse him of not being able to do or not taking enough.







Also

It is really weird that when the flaming dumpsterfire that loses us games is Ken Norton and his failure crew D, there is so much being posted about Wilson...as if he needs to take blame for these losses.

This is ALL on the defense. Sure the offense underperformed but the defense is the failure, the offense is still not where we want it. Big difference.

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

If Russell is as good as he and everyone else thinks he is, it shouldn't matter how long he's been coached to do what. And I'm not convinced that's the case anyway. If Russell was truly being actively handcuffed by Pete, he wouldn't have signed his last deal. His reputation in the league was firmly in place. He would've entered the market at that time.

Russell Wilson has been winning, for 9 years to be exact. Before 2012 was pete carroll winning? what about with the patriots? the jets?

 

[Tinamedina]

as I said stats and passing charts have been posted in threads for this year they show he is throwing short so they are there. That said the narrative is he cant does not matter what year if it shows he can then the narrative the cant is wrong.

So this was game 1 and I see 14 attempts that were short.

What do you notice about the big red box in the chart you posted there, champ?

Okay so he did not throw to that specific area of the middle so what. What do you notice literally right on the light champ?

I mean are we going to be that pathetic that we are going to say yeah he through short and long of over the but this one patch of 5-10 yards he did not so he cant. Also, that is only 1 game. DO you even know if any routes were run in that area? were they open? pathetic. Also FYI did you notice the blue TD one that is right in the box you are talking about. champ

This is a garbage thread with a 5-6 year old highlight reel submitted as proof against THREE separate areas that Russ has been criticized over - looking off short passes, looking off intermediate passes, and above all, looking off passes over the middle of the field.

If one is going to post supporting charts, they probably shouldn't show a MASSIVE CHASM in the intermediate middle of the field.

Now, redirecting to short passes: There are multiple issues that Russ has traditionally had when passing short, his placement and accuracy being one of them. He's throwing them at a higher frequency with Waldron really focusing heavily on short and screen passes.

This does nothing to argue against the well-observed notion that Russell is a relatively weak passer in the short game and has traditionally had a blind spot over the intermediate middle of the field.

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

 

[Maelstrom787]

What do you notice about the big red box in the chart you posted there, champ?

Okay so he did not throw to that specific area of the middle so what. What do you notice literally right on the light champ?

I mean are we going to be that pathetic that we are going to say yeah he through short and long of over the but this one patch of 5-10 yards he did not so he cant. Also, that is only 1 game. DO you even know if any routes were run in that area? were they open? pathetic. Also FYI did you notice the blue TD one that is right in the box you are talking about. champ

This is a garbage thread with a 5-6 year old highlight reel submitted as proof against THREE separate areas that Russ has been criticized over - looking off short passes, looking off intermediate passes, and above all, looking off passes over the middle of the field.

If one is going to post supporting charts, they probably shouldn't show a MASSIVE CHASM in the intermediate middle of the field.

Now, redirecting to short passes: There are multiple issues that Russ has traditionally had when passing short, his placement and accuracy being one of them. He's throwing them at a higher frequency with Waldron really focusing heavily on short and screen passes.

This does nothing to argue against the well-observed notion that Russell is a relatively weak passer in the short game and has traditionally had a blind spot over the intermediate middle of the field.

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

You're toying with semantics here. Use your noggin. No one, and this should be very very obvious, is saying that he CAN'T or that he NEVER HAS. The argument revolves around it being a relative weakness of his.

 

[John63]

Okay so he did not throw to that specific area of the middle so what. What do you notice literally right on the light champ?

I mean are we going to be that pathetic that we are going to say yeah he through short and long of over the but this one patch of 5-10 yards he did not so he cant. Also, that is only 1 game. DO you even know if any routes were run in that area? were they open? pathetic. Also FYI did you notice the blue TD one that is right in the box you are talking about. champ

This is a garbage thread with a 5-6 year old highlight reel submitted as proof against THREE separate areas that Russ has been criticized over - looking off short passes, looking off intermediate passes, and above all, looking off passes over the middle of the field.

If one is going to post supporting charts, they probably shouldn't show a MASSIVE CHASM in the intermediate middle of the field.

Now, redirecting to short passes: There are multiple issues that Russ has traditionally had when passing short, his placement and accuracy being one of them. He's throwing them at a higher frequency with Waldron really focusing heavily on short and screen passes.

This does nothing to argue against the well-observed notion that Russell is a relatively weak passer in the short game and has traditionally had a blind spot over the intermediate middle of the field.

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

You're toying with semantics here. Use your noggin. No one, and this should be very very obvious, is saying that he CAN'T or that he NEVER HAS. The argument revolves around it being a relative weakness of his.

Except if you bothered to read all the posts on this topic some do say he can't and never has. As to it being a weakness ahh he completes over 65% over the middle so it being a a weak ess is also a false narrative

 

[OrangeGravy]

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

That is just a silly statement. The Seahawks are 32nd in the NFL in total defense. They have the 30th ranked run defense and 26th passing defense. They give up over 440 yards per game.

How many yards would the defense need to give up before you stop talking about Wilson? 450 yards? 550 yards? The Seahawks are historically bad on defense, in the running to dethrone the 2012 Saints who gave up over 7000 yards in a 16 game season and that was only 437 yards per game.

I'll stop talking about Wilson when he proves he can carry a team deep in the playoffs. What are you gonna say if the defense gets back to middling and Russell performs like he did the back half of last season?

 

[Tinamedina]

Okay so he did not throw to that specific area of the middle so what. What do you notice literally right on the light champ?

I mean are we going to be that pathetic that we are going to say yeah he through short and long of over the but this one patch of 5-10 yards he did not so he cant. Also, that is only 1 game. DO you even know if any routes were run in that area? were they open? pathetic. Also FYI did you notice the blue TD one that is right in the box you are talking about. champ

This is a garbage thread with a 5-6 year old highlight reel submitted as proof against THREE separate areas that Russ has been criticized over - looking off short passes, looking off intermediate passes, and above all, looking off passes over the middle of the field.

If one is going to post supporting charts, they probably shouldn't show a MASSIVE CHASM in the intermediate middle of the field.

Now, redirecting to short passes: There are multiple issues that Russ has traditionally had when passing short, his placement and accuracy being one of them. He's throwing them at a higher frequency with Waldron really focusing heavily on short and screen passes.

This does nothing to argue against the well-observed notion that Russell is a relatively weak passer in the short game and has traditionally had a blind spot over the intermediate middle of the field.

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

You're toying with semantics here. Use your noggin. No one, and this should be very very obvious, is saying that he CAN'T or that he NEVER HAS. The argument revolves around it being a relative weakness of his.

Its not a weakness though, watching him play, he can make every throw. deep? check, short? check? intermediate? also, check. so how is it a weakness? there is dozens of videos that you yourself can watch. he's not struggling to throw these passes. a man who throws 70 yard passes in his sleep, under pressure, accurately, somehow has a problem throwing 10 yards? that narrative never made sense.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I seem to remember lots of these kinds of passes when we were coming from behind with only a few minutes left in the game.

One that stands out is the Vikings game with that crazy catch by Metcalf in the EZ but there were others.

It is probably true that he reverts to the sidelines in stress, but he has been coaches with way for a decade - what do you expect? However, when he has to have the 1st down, the clock is ticking, and we are behind? He makes all the throws people accuse him of not being able to do or not taking enough.
I'm not arguing for Pete. He can be fired tomorrow for all I care. That has nothing to do with what Wilson can and can't do






Also

It is really weird that when the flaming dumpsterfire that loses us games is Ken Norton and his failure crew D, there is so much being posted about Wilson...as if he needs to take blame for these losses.

This is ALL on the defense. Sure the offense underperformed but the defense is the failure, the offense is still not where we want it. Big difference.

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

If Russell is as good as he and everyone else thinks he is, it shouldn't matter how long he's been coached to do what. And I'm not convinced that's the case anyway. If Russell was truly being actively handcuffed by Pete, he wouldn't have signed his last deal. His reputation in the league was firmly in place. He would've entered the market at that time.

Russell Wilson has been winning, for 9 years to be exact. Before 2012 was pete carroll winning? what about with the patriots? the jets?

 

[John63]

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

That is just a silly statement. The Seahawks are 32nd in the NFL in total defense. They have the 30th ranked run defense and 26th passing defense. They give up over 440 yards per game.

How many yards would the defense need to give up before you stop talking about Wilson? 450 yards? 550 yards? The Seahawks are historically bad on defense, in the running to dethrone the 2012 Saints who gave up over 7000 yards in a 16 game season and that was only 437 yards per game.

I'll stop talking about Wilson when he proves he can carry a team deep in the playoffs. What are you gonna say if the defense gets back to middling and Russell performs like he did the back half of last season?

ukeface:

 

[Grahamhawker]

The O scoring every time they touch the ball or what?

 

[John63]

The O scoring every time they touch the ball or what?

Yeah because every qb in the league does that every game....not

 

[Tinamedina]

So much is being posted about Wilson because it's his team. He's the man. Even if the defense improves, he can't have long stretches of not producing. Defenses in this era don't shut teams down consistently. Not even the better ones. Russell wants to be an all time and talk about his legacy before it's written, win the games. No excuses

That is just a silly statement. The Seahawks are 32nd in the NFL in total defense. They have the 30th ranked run defense and 26th passing defense. They give up over 440 yards per game.

How many yards would the defense need to give up before you stop talking about Wilson? 450 yards? 550 yards? The Seahawks are historically bad on defense, in the running to dethrone the 2012 Saints who gave up over 7000 yards in a 16 game season and that was only 437 yards per game.

I'll stop talking about Wilson when he proves he can carry a team deep in the playoffs. What are you gonna say if the defense gets back to middling and Russell performs like he did the back half of last season?

well if pete carroll backs off and doesn't meddle, russell wilson will be fine. and greg olsen confirmed that yes, pete carroll meddled and thats why the team struggled. but no, they won't make it through the playoffs and thats because of the defense coaching.

 

[Tinamedina]

This is a garbage thread with a 5-6 year old highlight reel submitted as proof against THREE separate areas that Russ has been criticized over - looking off short passes, looking off intermediate passes, and above all, looking off passes over the middle of the field.

If one is going to post supporting charts, they probably shouldn't show a MASSIVE CHASM in the intermediate middle of the field.

Now, redirecting to short passes: There are multiple issues that Russ has traditionally had when passing short, his placement and accuracy being one of them. He's throwing them at a higher frequency with Waldron really focusing heavily on short and screen passes.

This does nothing to argue against the well-observed notion that Russell is a relatively weak passer in the short game and has traditionally had a blind spot over the intermediate middle of the field.

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

You're toying with semantics here. Use your noggin. No one, and this should be very very obvious, is saying that he CAN'T or that he NEVER HAS. The argument revolves around it being a relative weakness of his.

Except if you bothered to read all the posts on this topic some do say he can't and never has. As to it being a weakness ahh he completes over 65% over the middle so it being a a weak ess is also a false narrative

over 65%? wow, i didn't know that. You can point this out and these people will still keep pushing a false narrative. they don't like wilson, i think they never have, or they are feeling like they have to protect pete carroll at all cost.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This is a garbage thread with a 5-6 year old highlight reel submitted as proof against THREE separate areas that Russ has been criticized over - looking off short passes, looking off intermediate passes, and above all, looking off passes over the middle of the field.

If one is going to post supporting charts, they probably shouldn't show a MASSIVE CHASM in the intermediate middle of the field.

Now, redirecting to short passes: There are multiple issues that Russ has traditionally had when passing short, his placement and accuracy being one of them. He's throwing them at a higher frequency with Waldron really focusing heavily on short and screen passes.

This does nothing to argue against the well-observed notion that Russell is a relatively weak passer in the short game and has traditionally had a blind spot over the intermediate middle of the field.

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

You're toying with semantics here. Use your noggin. No one, and this should be very very obvious, is saying that he CAN'T or that he NEVER HAS. The argument revolves around it being a relative weakness of his.

Except if you bothered to read all the posts on this topic some do say he can't and never has. As to it being a weakness ahh he completes over 65% over the middle so it being a a weak ess is also a false narrative

"ahh" yep, and Andy Dalton is completing 73% of his passes this season.

Completion percentage is not a premier metric of ability or performance. It's extremely system dependent, and 65% isn't an especially strong number in that regard to begin with.

 

[Maelstrom787]

its simple. Yall said he can't pass over the middle/short, he has, he can, and accurately. Those videos were just a little piece of evidence. I could go back and find more, but i won't because it won't matter will it? You guy will just keep pushing a false narrative or start a new one.

You're toying with semantics here. Use your noggin. No one, and this should be very very obvious, is saying that he CAN'T or that he NEVER HAS. The argument revolves around it being a relative weakness of his.

Except if you bothered to read all the posts on this topic some do say he can't and never has. As to it being a weakness ahh he completes over 65% over the middle so it being a a weak ess is also a false narrative

over 65%? wow, i didn't know that. You can point this out and these people will still keep pushing a false narrative. they don't like wilson, i think they never have, or they are feeling like they have to protect pete carroll at all cost.

65% would be 8% under his overall percentage this season, so yeah... relative weakness. Key word RELATIVE.