Russell Wilson: Report says he wants to explore options with

[OrangeGravy]

We all knew this would start up again! Russell and Agent could not wait until after the SB they had to start rumors so Russell is staying relevant in the media. My question is RW says he wants to explore options what does that exactly mean?

It doesn't mean anything, other than another year and another example of how bad Russell and Mark Rodgers are at this. It also explains why Russell is Mark Rodgers only NFL client, he's terrible.

Russell's options after he's done exploring are:

1. Show up to training camp and fulfill his contract playing for the Seahawks in 2022 to collect his insane paychecks.

2. Demand a trade and hold out and start missing 3M a game checks.

I'd put the odds at #2 happening at less than 1%. Russell doesn't want that kind of smoke, he's not wired like this.

This is nothing more than Russell and his agent thinking they're doing something positive for Russ's career by keeping him relevant in the media so Russell can sit on his couch watching playoff games and hear his name.

So dumb. Dude had his worst year of his career. If there was an off season he needed to just shut up and focus on getting better for the team that's done nothing but stick by him and defend him. This was the year.

But no, he couldn't do that.

You know, I used to love that we had Russell. I couldn't believe the Seahawks, a Seattle team, actually had the best case scenario ( to me ) at QB. An athletic and mostly accurate QB that just wanted to win football games. Sure he's over the top with Jesus stuff and corny as hell, but who cares? He just wants to win games. I even used to bristle when the national media would dismiss him.

Then the contract negotiating started and the NY Giants/Ciara rumors started. No problem. Easy to dismiss as negotiating propaganda. THEN, the propaganda machine was pointed at on the field stuff with LRC and hasn't stopped since. All while Russell has largely played his worst football ever. The facade has disappeared completely. It all, to me points to a player that has completely abandoned the job of QB and embraced CEO mode. He's already operating in post career empire building mode. He's not playing football anymore. He's playing some kind of bizarre NFL version of Sim city.

I still think the best chance of winning significantly is Russell somehow swallowing his pride enough to accept operating the offense that we watched the last 2 games with everyone coming back and with some good fortune in the player acquisition department. Anything else will take too long to bear fruit before Russell's contract expires. Im almost at the point where I'd prefer to be bad than have to watch him play another game.

 

[hinton]

We lost the Titans game because of hero ball, not because of "Pete Ball"

The Titans game was lost because the pathetic defense gave up 500 yards and couldnt stop them at any point.

*The Titans game was lost (in part) because the pathetic defense gave up 500 yards and couldnt stop them at any point.

 

[John63]

As to the rest, I said some of you does that mean you?

It does when you say it while you're quoting the person. How else would I take it?

But I digress, and you didn't answer my question.

If you were Pete and John, would you entertain trading Russell this off season? Because if not, then you're also saying you're ready to make him the highest paid QB next off season, because that's what he's going to want for his next extension.

So if you or anyone is in the don't trade Russ camp no matter what? Then you need to be mindful of what's going to happen next off season, and that's paying him 50M+ so he's the highest paid QB in the league.

So while some people think we don't need to worry about him now, they're not taking into account long term, and risking more injuries, continued deterioration of his play and his value being far less next off season.

I quoted several people in my post. As to the rest well you ask a lot of questions based on a lot of assumptions. A lot of what I would do would depend on my conversation with the players involved. So without knowing those I can't say anything as it would all be assumptions and conjecture with, way too many variables.

Have an opinion man. Of course it's conjecture and speculation, that's the fun of it.

I laid out the scenario, so give me your opinion based on it.

If I were PC and John I would keep Wilson and look for a young QB to groom, If you can't find one then you ride with what you have till you find or his play falls below the medium to where most Qbs would do.

Upside you winning now and preparing for the future.
Downside, if he plays out of his mind you got a problem.


Sorry for horrible typing still only have 1 eye I can see out of till my next suregry.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Hey Russ is going to be on the Manning MNF cast tonight.

What's the over under on how many times he says "I just want to win." 12? 14?

I look forward tomorrow to breaking down how many dumb things he says to throw fuel on the I'm exploring my options nonsense fire.

I can't watch that. I have to save enough respect for Russell to get through next season

 

[OrangeGravy]

You know, when you look back across the Pete and Russel years, Russ's mostly ups, but downs, the rocky relationship he seems to have now with Pete, the tension that has existed in the Hawks locker room post 2014, and the assertions made that Russ was coddled, not held to account , and basically accused of not pulling his weight during the team's most successful period, it makes one wonder whether this now perpetual desire on Russ's part to leave, is something that runs a bit deeper.

I'm not saying it's what's happening, but I think it's plausible that what's driving Russ is championships, sure, but just as much, if not more so, that he wants to once and for all before his career is over, prove to his coach, his former teammates, to the world and maybe himself, that he's one of the greats...

When you read about players who thought Russ wasn't pulling his weight in the early years, and instead was buoyed by the performance of the other aspects of the team, and Pete's commitment to protecting him still and even speaking for him in instances like Brock and Salks Jan 12th show when Pete remarked that Russ has no issue being in a run first offense ( i though of it sounded a bit too definitive and presumtive when i heard it). It's not difficult to see this almost as a case of the sheltered son who's always been seen as a product of his 'father' or family, needing to step out and go it alone. It would offer rational for why, even with the offense seeming to hit its stride late this year, why Russ seemingly still wants to explore options. Maybe he doesn't want the success if it means he will essentially be placed right back into the cast he's been trying to break from. I know that much of what I said is obvious for those who hold the position that Russ sees himself as more than maybe he is. I guess what I'm trying pose is different in that it's less about a selfish, narcissistic leaning, as much as it is a guy trying to prove to himself that he's not the Russel that needs Pete's protection, or the Hawks defense to be the headline, or for his RB to bust out for 140ypg. In this line of thinking, it's as if having those things is almost as bad as not having them and struggling to field a .500 team if it means that Russel Wilson is the Russel Wilson of old - 'coach's son' , beneficiary of a great team, a short qb who succeeded, but with caveats and exclusions. Maybe he just wants to be out of the shadow.

If that's the case, I get it. It's almost as if no matter how much success he might have in Seattle, if it's in Seattle, he'll never be able to really say to himself that he did it and was THE guy. I know that even posed in that way it still might sound selfish because football is a team sport. But most things in life require team work. And the narrative of the person who had success but needed to ultimately find success his or her way, outside the shadow of some other contributing factor is pretty common in other contexts like business. And when it works, it's celebrated.

It woukd also explain why Russ is 'happy' here, but also drawn to the idea of being elsewhere. He genuinely feels both.

And it would provide reasoning for why a disappointing season this year where he played poorly, but then finished well, because the 'team' did well is a positive, but also more reason for frustration. 'We' did it... but it had the hallmarks of Pete's way. He loses personally, here even when he wins.

I agree that it's probably the root of all of this, but anyway you slice it, foregoing success unless you're the reason for that success or at least the perceived reason for that success, is narcissistic in a team setting. Specifically when you consider that if you have enough success at his position ultimately you'll get the credit.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It does when you say it while you're quoting the person. How else would I take it?

But I digress, and you didn't answer my question.

If you were Pete and John, would you entertain trading Russell this off season? Because if not, then you're also saying you're ready to make him the highest paid QB next off season, because that's what he's going to want for his next extension.

So if you or anyone is in the don't trade Russ camp no matter what? Then you need to be mindful of what's going to happen next off season, and that's paying him 50M+ so he's the highest paid QB in the league.

So while some people think we don't need to worry about him now, they're not taking into account long term, and risking more injuries, continued deterioration of his play and his value being far less next off season.

I quoted several people in my post. As to the rest well you ask a lot of questions based on a lot of assumptions. A lot of what I would do would depend on my conversation with the players involved. So without knowing those I can't say anything as it would all be assumptions and conjecture with, way too many variables.

Have an opinion man. Of course it's conjecture and speculation, that's the fun of it.

I laid out the scenario, so give me your opinion based on it.

If I were PC and John I would keep Wilson and look for a young QB to groom, If you can't find one then you ride with what you have till you find or his play falls below the medium to where most Qbs would do.

Upside you winning now and preparing for the future.
Downside, if he plays out of his mind you got a problem.


Sorry for horrible typing still only have 1 eye I can see out of till my next suregry.

No worries, thanks for indulging me.

I used to be in your camp, you don't trade a player of Wilson's importance and caliber until you have his replacement already on the roster and ready to roll.

But two things changed my mind, Russell's erratic and possible deterioration as a QB and our FO's utter lack of caring about drafting Russell's replacement. They haven't even come close to finding an NFL caliber QB in the draft. Or caring.

We've held onto our stars too long, Kam, Earl, Sherm, etc. Should have traded them a year sooner, or not extended them at all. Don't want to make the same mistake with Russell.

 

[keasley45]

,

Let me try to see if I got it?

You cruise happily in your Mercedes SL something you work hard for, the thing is you work in your dad's company. When folks looked at your SL and smiled, you start to suspect they were laughing at your coattail, even though you contributed to the company sucess as much as daddy dear.

If I got it right, then I respectfully disagree with you. Our Russell is more complex, at least in my humble opinion.

Not exactly. It's more being the CEO of a company, with your dad as president, and his chosen guys at COO, and CFO who are recognized as being THE company. And there having been rumblings the entire time you've been there, that you're only a successful CEO because of those guys your dad put around you. Meanwhile, members of that team have been critical of you getting preferential treatment.

So there's success. Then a rough spot where you were given more authority, which strengthens opinion that you aren't that gifted a ceo, but just thevproduct of dad's company, and that the company plans on going back to the formula that made it great.

In that situation, there's not a win for you. You struggle, but the team is successful and you get an attaboy and praise regardless. The company finds success, and it's the same its always been... not entirely because of you.

So you walk into dad's office, drop the keys to the office on his desk and tell him you love the company, love the town, love the team, but have to do it your way.

Of course Russ isn't going to come out and say that, because it proves that the criticism he's heard his whole time in Seattle has affected him, and that Pete's father hen approach is one he is raging against.

So instead, he's open to exploring opportunities to maximizes his potential elsewhere.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

 

[John63]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

 

[keasley45]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

 

[John63]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

again then why did it not work before Wilson? Answer because it requires a better-than-AVG QB that can take over a game and make magic. those don't grow on trees and even PC knows it. AS to the Bailing himself out yeah whatever you say. By the way, do you have a link to these career 3rd down numbers? I am guessing not because as most of you are saying well this year and last was bad so they all must be bad. So let slook at it

2021 3rd down
59% complt 5.6 ypa not good
2020 complt 72% 7.5 comply HMm that's good
2019 72% 7.3 ypa That's good
2018 62% 7.7 thats still good
2017 58.3 7.1 again not good
2016 62% 5.5 again thats good
2015 70% 9 ypa thats good
2014 66% 7.1 thats good\
2013 64% 7.7 ypa again good
2012 58% 6.3 ypa not good.

So let's see out of 10 years he has had 3 bad seasons on 3rd down so that's 30% bad

To put it in perspective the GOAT Drady out of 22 years he had 2 years he only played 1 game so that leaves 20 out of the 20 he has 7 with below 60% complete that's 35% bad.

So sorry your narrative is not correct

 

[toffee]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

Walsh will kiss you for praising his system, I never had the honor of speaking to coach Walsh, but did asked Seifert, neighbor and all, about the Young taking over and winning Superbowl. Seifert said it was the system. Players shine in great system.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[keasley45]

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

again then why did it not work before Wilson? Answer because it requires a better-than-AVG QB that can take over a game and make magic. those don't grow on trees and even PC knows it. AS to the Bailing himself out yeah whatever you say. By the way, do you have a link to these career 3rd down numbers? I am guessing not because as most of you are saying well this year and last was bad so they all must be bad. So let slook at it

2021 3rd down
59% complt 5.6 ypa not good
2020 complt 72% 7.5 comply HMm that's good
2019 72% 7.3 ypa That's good
2018 62% 7.7 thats still good
2017 58.3 7.1 again not good
2016 62% 5.5 again thats good
2015 70% 9 ypa thats good
2014 66% 7.1 thats good\
2013 64% 7.7 ypa again good
2012 58% 6.3 ypa not good.

So let's see out of 10 years he has had 3 bad seasons on 3rd down so that's 30% bad

To put it in perspective the GOAT Drady out of 22 years he had 2 years he only played 1 game so that leaves 20 out of the 20 he has 7 with below 60% complete that's 35% bad.

So sorry your narrative is not correct

The stat on 3rd down to focus on is conversions as much as it is completions. Not completion percentage. Russ's completion percentage on every down is fantastic. And why is that? Because defenses give us the quick, easy read because we will take it. So yeah, great that its complete... for our punters stats maybe.

But if it's 3rd and 8 and your quick bubble screen that you complete every time you throw it gets 7 yards... you're punting.

Or if you got sacked on 3rd and 3 because you held the ball and didn't hit the open guy and now it's 3rd and 12... but complete a 9 yard pass, you're punting.

It's third down completions and third down conversions, which have been not great for a long time.

And yes I now realize I said 3rd down percentage in my post. That was a mistake and you were right to jump on it. His percentage complete on 3rd is good.

 

[keasley45]

But honestly, you can respond however you want. And i do not mean that with any disrespect at all. We are all here passionate fans. I just don't have the energy to argue the point anymore.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Ok, I'll give you the fact that college vs. pro can be an issue. You've got that. But you still overestimate Russ's value add to our Super Bowl years.

First of all, TJack wasn't an 'average' QB. He was a below average QB.

Now, if we are talking about 'average', during 2013, Russell's offense only scored about 2 and a half points more per game than the average NFL team. You know what our record looks like if you take away that 2 and a half points from the final score of every game? Would it shock you to learn that we'd STILL be 13-3?

Now, Russ's offense did slightly worse the following year, only being good for an extra 2 points, versus 2 and a half. And, as you might expect, our record with Russ's 'better than average' offense vs. an average one is... identical. 12-4.

The story changes if you revert our defense back to average. Our team becomes 8-8 and 9-7, respectively.

Now, obviously, you cannot simply do this. All phases of the game affect all other phases. But the numbers hint that, essentially, our 2013-2014 defense, one of the best in all of NFL history, was good enough to be Super Bowl contender with any 'average' offense (and we'd probably have been able to get by with one slightly below average, especially in 2013).

This doesn't mean Russ and our offense weren't better than average. They were. It just didn't matter nearly as much as our defense being so dominant.

 

[John63]

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

again then why did it not work before Wilson? Answer because it requires a better-than-AVG QB that can take over a game and make magic. those don't grow on trees and even PC knows it. AS to the Bailing himself out yeah whatever you say. By the way, do you have a link to these career 3rd down numbers? I am guessing not because as most of you are saying well this year and last was bad so they all must be bad. So let slook at it

2021 3rd down
59% complt 5.6 ypa not good
2020 complt 72% 7.5 comply HMm that's good
2019 72% 7.3 ypa That's good
2018 62% 7.7 thats still good
2017 58.3 7.1 again not good
2016 62% 5.5 again thats good
2015 70% 9 ypa thats good
2014 66% 7.1 thats good\
2013 64% 7.7 ypa again good
2012 58% 6.3 ypa not good.

So let's see out of 10 years he has had 3 bad seasons on 3rd down so that's 30% bad

To put it in perspective the GOAT Drady out of 22 years he had 2 years he only played 1 game so that leaves 20 out of the 20 he has 7 with below 60% complete that's 35% bad.

So sorry your narrative is not correct

The stat on 3rd down to focus on is conversions as much as it is completions. Not completion percentage. Russ's completion percentage on every down is fantastic. And why is that? Because defenses give us the quick, easy read because we will take it. So yeah, great that its complete... for our punters stats maybe.

But if it's 3rd and 8 and your quick bubble screen that you complete every time you throw it gets 7 yards... you're punting.

Or if you got sacked on 3rd and 3 because you held the ball and didn't hit the open guy and now it's 3rd and 12... but complete a 9 yard pass, you're punting.

It's third down completions and third down conversions, which have been not great for a long time.

And yes I now realize I said 3rd down percentage in my post. That was a mistake and you were right to jump on it. His percentage complete on 3rd is good.

The problem is conversion is not always a Qb stat, for example, what if the play is designed for YAC and the receivers get none that is not on the QB necessarily. Add to that if you notice his YPA on all the good years is over 7 yards that means he is throwing 3rd and long a lot if the conversion is low. That is another issue. Again the FACTS [rove he has not always been bad on 3rd down and is no worse than the supposed GOAT.

You see the problem is conversion is not always a QB thing as I pointed out, the play called impacts conversion as you said a bubble screen that's not Wilson's fault if they call a bubble screen and don't get the first down he did his part he got the completion.

No let's look at conversion, problem is we don't know what % is run or pass and what down and distance as 3rd and long is way harder than 3rd and short
2021
37.31 %
2020
38.42%
2019
40.18%
2018
37.56%
2017
37.26%
2016
39.74%
2015
47.14%
2014
43.57%
2013
37.07%
2012
40.0%
2011
33.77
2010
35.12%

So as you can see the 3rd down thing was here before Wilson and even with Hass.

FYI we led the league in 3rd and long

Now lets look at other PC HC NFL numbers
1994
32.14%
1997
34.57%
1998
31.21%
1999
33.45&

So as you can see the 3rd down issue has existed on every team PC was HC of.

 

[toffee]

Peteball needs Russ as much as Wilson needs Peteball, unfortunately, Carroll know PeteBall needs Russ, but Russ no longer buy into Wilson needs Peteball.

Peteball without a QB that scares opponents with ability to throw accurate deep balls would be quite limiting, with Russ, not only that he could throw deep, accurately, he could buy time with his legs. Therefore Peteball needs someone like Russ which is not easy to find, therefore Pete will do whatever to hold on to Russ, even got rid of LOB just to appease Wilson.

Wilson has holes in his games, which keasley45 had written about repeatedly, Peteball helped cover his holes and allowed his strength to shine. However, Russ no longer buy into that, he and team Russ truly believe that Peteball has been wasting his prime, he should be multiple MVP but none due to Peteball. Russ view Peteball as limiting factor to his unlimited abilities.

I therefore advocated to trade Russell Wilson has off-season when his trade value was at its peak.

I don't think PeteBall really needs Russ, to be honest. I mean, for all the nonsense about Pete putting the 'brakes' on Russ or our offense or whatever, the fact is PeteBall is a philosophy, not a single way of doing it. It's limiting turnovers, strong defense, and a good run-game. How those three things get accomplished, I think, are able to vary greatly.

The fact is, in Pete's other successful run as a head coach, at USC, he worked with decidedly NON-Russell Wilson style QBs and was still amazingly successful with 'Pete-ball'.

Now, I'm not big on the idea of letting Pete rebuild our team for a few reasons but do I think he could create a Super Bowl team with a game manager QB? Absolutely.

The Pete-Ball we saw in the last couple of games of the season was a specific and dynamic Waldron/Russell version of Pete-Ball. But could Pete put together a version of PeteBall with a player like the Rashaad Penny we've seen recently and a good West Coast Offense style game manager QB? Yeah, absolutely. He's done it.

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Ok, I'll give you the fact that college vs. pro can be an issue. You've got that. But you still overestimate Russ's value add to our Super Bowl years.

First of all, TJack wasn't an 'average' QB. He was a below average QB.

Now, if we are talking about 'average', during 2013, Russell's offense only scored about 2 and a half points more per game than the average NFL team. You know what our record looks like if you take away that 2 and a half points from the final score of every game? Would it shock you to learn that we'd STILL be 13-3?

Now, Russ's offense did slightly worse the following year, only being good for an extra 2 points, versus 2 and a half. And, as you might expect, our record with Russ's 'better than average' offense vs. an average one is... identical. 12-4.

The story changes if you revert our defense back to average. Our team becomes 8-8 and 9-7, respectively.

Now, obviously, you cannot simply do this. All phases of the game affect all other phases. But the numbers hint that, essentially, our 2013-2014 defense, one of the best in all of NFL history, was good enough to be Super Bowl contender with any 'average' offense (and we'd probably have been able to get by with one slightly below average, especially in 2013).

This doesn't mean Russ and our offense weren't better than average. They were. It just didn't matter nearly as much as our defense being so dominant.

In 2013 and 2014, opposing DCs game planned for Marshawn as much as for Russell, those DCs would focus on stopping the run and gamble on Russell beat them with his arm. Game manager.

 

[keasley45]

The problem is conversion is not always a Qb stat, for example, what if the play is designed for YAC and the

So as you can see the 3rd down issue has existed on every team PC was HC of.

The top qbs in the league dont have a problem converting consistently.

 

[John63]

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

again then why did it not work before Wilson? Answer because it requires a better-than-AVG QB that can take over a game and make magic. those don't grow on trees and even PC knows it. AS to the Bailing himself out yeah whatever you say. By the way, do you have a link to these career 3rd down numbers? I am guessing not because as most of you are saying well this year and last was bad so they all must be bad. So let slook at it

2021 3rd down
59% complt 5.6 ypa not good
2020 complt 72% 7.5 comply HMm that's good
2019 72% 7.3 ypa That's good
2018 62% 7.7 thats still good
2017 58.3 7.1 again not good
2016 62% 5.5 again thats good
2015 70% 9 ypa thats good
2014 66% 7.1 thats good\
2013 64% 7.7 ypa again good
2012 58% 6.3 ypa not good.

So let's see out of 10 years he has had 3 bad seasons on 3rd down so that's 30% bad

To put it in perspective the GOAT Drady out of 22 years he had 2 years he only played 1 game so that leaves 20 out of the 20 he has 7 with below 60% complete that's 35% bad.

So sorry your narrative is not correct

The stat on 3rd down to focus on is conversions as much as it is completions. Not completion percentage. Russ's completion percentage on every down is fantastic. And why is that? Because defenses give us the quick, easy read because we will take it. So yeah, great that its complete... for our punters stats maybe.

But if it's 3rd and 8 and your quick bubble screen that you complete every time you throw it gets 7 yards... you're punting.

Or if you got sacked on 3rd and 3 because you held the ball and didn't hit the open guy and now it's 3rd and 12... but complete a 9 yard pass, you're punting.

It's third down completions and third down conversions, which have been not great for a long time.

And yes I now realize I said 3rd down percentage in my post. That was a mistake and you were right to jump on it. His percentage complete on 3rd is good.

as a side note and perhaps to change the narrative, the last 2 games were they went full-on Waldron they were
59% on 3rd down and 50% on 4th. So if they stay with that style of offense we are good.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Saying Pete's system didn't work until Wilson is like saying Bill Walsh's system didn't work until Joe Montana (btw, Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year and 6-10 his second year with Montana splitting time with DeBerg) Bill Walsh is a HOF coach. Belacheat's system didn't work before Brady. Bill is a HOF coach. Arians approach was broken before Brady. Arians will likely be considered a HOF coach. I could go on.

By that measure, my porsche was no better than a Kia before i put gas in it. Worthless.

It runs fine on 89. Better on 91, and is a rocket ship with 95 octane. But put that same gas in a Pinto... its still a pinto.

The argument is silly.

The system is absolutely viable and made Russ as much as Russ 'bailed it out'. Russ, passing at a below average 3rd down percentage for his career required bailing out himself, and got it time and again.

Put a great QB in a great system and get great results. Put a mediocre qb in a great system and you can still win ( Ravens 1st SB). Put a garbage qb in a great system, watch it fail.

again then why did it not work before Wilson? Answer because it requires a better-than-AVG QB that can take over a game and make magic. those don't grow on trees and even PC knows it. AS to the Bailing himself out yeah whatever you say. By the way, do you have a link to these career 3rd down numbers? I am guessing not because as most of you are saying well this year and last was bad so they all must be bad. So let slook at it

2021 3rd down
59% complt 5.6 ypa not good
2020 complt 72% 7.5 comply HMm that's good
2019 72% 7.3 ypa That's good
2018 62% 7.7 thats still good
2017 58.3 7.1 again not good
2016 62% 5.5 again thats good
2015 70% 9 ypa thats good
2014 66% 7.1 thats good\
2013 64% 7.7 ypa again good
2012 58% 6.3 ypa not good.

So let's see out of 10 years he has had 3 bad seasons on 3rd down so that's 30% bad

To put it in perspective the GOAT Drady out of 22 years he had 2 years he only played 1 game so that leaves 20 out of the 20 he has 7 with below 60% complete that's 35% bad.

So sorry your narrative is not correct

The stat on 3rd down to focus on is conversions as much as it is completions. Not completion percentage. Russ's completion percentage on every down is fantastic. And why is that? Because defenses give us the quick, easy read because we will take it. So yeah, great that its complete... for our punters stats maybe.

But if it's 3rd and 8 and your quick bubble screen that you complete every time you throw it gets 7 yards... you're punting.

Or if you got sacked on 3rd and 3 because you held the ball and didn't hit the open guy and now it's 3rd and 12... but complete a 9 yard pass, you're punting.

It's third down completions and third down conversions, which have been not great for a long time.

And yes I now realize I said 3rd down percentage in my post. That was a mistake and you were right to jump on it. His percentage complete on 3rd is good.

as a side note and perhaps to change the narrative, the last 2 games were they went full-on Waldron they were
59% on 3rd down and 50% on 4th. So if they stay with that style of offense we are good.

You can't be serious.

You say that the Waldron offense was on display for 2.5 games. You, therefore, think you know enough about him to deduce his entire scheme, playcalling tendency, and playbook from 2.5 games?

If you think Waldron was only calling 2.5 games this entire season, you (and we!) know precisely jack shit about Waldron. That is absolutely nothing for a sample size.

Have you even once stopped to actually think about how precarious your fleeting, barely-there narrative on this situation is?