Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Sox-n-Hawks]

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

He's also ranked 11th in Qb Winning percentage in Games started for current QBs.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

The overall yards is less important than the yards/attempt or yards/catch. Russ doesn't throw as much as some QB's. That's not Russ' fault, nor does it say anything about his ability as a QB. It's a stat entirely based on scheme.

As per your second question, completion %, that number is certainly not top-5 for this season. So I agree, he's not the best this season in completion %.

Just a caution, though: make sure to check on the number of drops by his receivers. PFF's stats for adjusted completion % (excluding drops by less-than-excellent supporting cast of receivers/RBs/TEs) puts him at 71% for last year, which placed him second in the league. I'm not suggest this year is the same.

Compare him to Brady’s 2006 numbers. Wilson is better. Period

 

[rcaido]

The OPs stats are hand picked. He uses the Qb rating as the best way to show that Wilson is elite. He also leaves out passing yards. He's also comparing Wilson's best 3 years vs Elite QBs that are pushing 40 years old. That's cute.

So if we use Passer Rating for elite status, Chad Pennington is the 12th best QB of all time.


"Things I Learned From Passer Rating

Lesson No. 1
a)Aaron Rodgers is the Greatest Of All-Time
b)Tony Romo is a top four QB in NFL history
c)Both of these QBs are greater than Manning, Warner, and Brady

Lesson No. 2
a)Chad Pennington is an all-time great
b)So is Daunte Culpepper
c)So is Carson Palmer
d)So is Jeff Garcia
e)So is Matt Schaub
f) All these QBs are greater than Favre and Mcnabb"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-from-passer-rating-and-completion-percentage

As for the slow first half starts, why don't you include 1st half incompletions, interceptions, and 3 and outs Vs the 2nd half?

How about completion percentage? Not so elite numbers there check for yourself. But I'm sure you already did and that's why they are not included.

I don't hate Wilson, I hate the hype. When he's playing like garbage, it's everyone else's fault. When he's doing great he's elite.

Ok i did the checking looks great to me.

2013
64.2% 2INT 2,164 yards
61.9% 7INT 1,687 yards

2014
62.1 7INT 2,150 yards
61.8 5INT 1,924 yards

2015
66% 5INT 2,067 yards
67.5% 6INT 2,403 yards

2016
65.9% 6INT 2,401yards
63.3% 7INT 2,163yards

2017
59.6% 6INT 1,659yards
62.9% 5INT 2,324yards

2018
69.5% 0INT 1,222yards
63.9% 5INT 1,309yards

Not sure why you bring up Interceptions & Completion percentages...Wilson is one the best. He is top 10 all time completion percentage. #2 all time in TD to INT ratio.

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

He was ranked #9 in passing yards not #12. Also why not just add total yards? If you add Wilson rushing he had total yards of 4,569 #2. Brady had 4,602 total yards #1. So Wilson ranked #2 total yards, is that consider elite enough or does he have to be #1? He also lead the league in TD which is far more important than yards dont you think?

As for this year its not over yet...Then again I guess Brady is no longer elite because he is #11 passing yards #15 TDs.

 

[SeaChase]

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

Man... That Tom Brady guy must be FAR from Elite at #21 on the completion percentage. Wow, such a horrible QB.

What makes a QB Elite. Winning. I can cherry pick stats here and there. But the bottom line is, when you compare him at this point in his career to other "Elites" he's exceptional. His body of work speaks for itself.

What we have here is a classic Self Selection Bias argument. If you watch his body of work, he's brilliant. MOST of his stats support this. Cherry pick all you want. I'll watch him win.

Brady is 41...the previous 2 years he was ranked 5th and 7th.

Wow with that kind on inconsistency he must be awful. I bet he’s never even been to a playoff game.

:stirthepot:

FYI Brady's 6th year in the league.... He posted a 61.3% completion rate.... 4% less than RW at the same stage in his career.

That's cool. Brady has also thrown for 50 TDs in a single season.

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

 

[SeaChase]

The OPs stats are hand picked. He uses the Qb rating as the best way to show that Wilson is elite. He also leaves out passing yards. He's also comparing Wilson's best 3 years vs Elite QBs that are pushing 40 years old. That's cute.

So if we use Passer Rating for elite status, Chad Pennington is the 12th best QB of all time.


"Things I Learned From Passer Rating

Lesson No. 1
a)Aaron Rodgers is the Greatest Of All-Time
b)Tony Romo is a top four QB in NFL history
c)Both of these QBs are greater than Manning, Warner, and Brady

Lesson No. 2
a)Chad Pennington is an all-time great
b)So is Daunte Culpepper
c)So is Carson Palmer
d)So is Jeff Garcia
e)So is Matt Schaub
f) All these QBs are greater than Favre and Mcnabb"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-from-passer-rating-and-completion-percentage

As for the slow first half starts, why don't you include 1st half incompletions, interceptions, and 3 and outs Vs the 2nd half?

How about completion percentage? Not so elite numbers there check for yourself. But I'm sure you already did and that's why they are not included.

I don't hate Wilson, I hate the hype. When he's playing like garbage, it's everyone else's fault. When he's doing great he's elite.

Ok i did the checking looks great to me.

2013
64.2% 2INT 2,164 yards
61.9% 7INT 1,687 yards

2014
62.1 7INT 2,150 yards
61.8 5INT 1,924 yards

2015
66% 5INT 2,067 yards
67.5% 6INT 2,403 yards

2016
65.9% 6INT 2,401yards
63.3% 7INT 2,163yards

2017
59.6% 6INT 1,659yards
62.9% 5INT 2,324yards

2018
69.5% 0INT 1,222yards
63.9% 5INT 1,309yards

Not sure why you bring up Interceptions & Completion percentages...Wilson is one the best. He is top 10 all time completion percentage. #2 all time in TD to INT ratio.

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

He was ranked #9 in passing yards not #12. Also why not just add total yards? If you add Wilson rushing he had total yards of 4,569 #2. Brady had 4,602 total yards #1. So Wilson ranked #2 total yards, is that consider elite enough or does he have to be #1? He also lead the league in TD which is far more important than yards dont you think?

As for this year its not over yet...Then again I guess Brady is no longer elite because he is #11 passing yards #15 TDs.

For 2017 the stats show 12th at 3983 passing yards.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-gross-yards?season_id=15

 

[rcaido]

Ok i did the checking looks great to me.

2013
64.2% 2INT 2,164 yards
61.9% 7INT 1,687 yards

2014
62.1 7INT 2,150 yards
61.8 5INT 1,924 yards

2015
66% 5INT 2,067 yards
67.5% 6INT 2,403 yards

2016
65.9% 6INT 2,401yards
63.3% 7INT 2,163yards

2017
59.6% 6INT 1,659yards
62.9% 5INT 2,324yards

2018
69.5% 0INT 1,222yards
63.9% 5INT 1,309yards

Not sure why you bring up Interceptions & Completion percentages...Wilson is one the best. He is top 10 all time completion percentage. #2 all time in TD to INT ratio.

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

He was ranked #9 in passing yards not #12. Also why not just add total yards? If you add Wilson rushing he had total yards of 4,569 #2. Brady had 4,602 total yards #1. So Wilson ranked #2 total yards, is that consider elite enough or does he have to be #1? He also lead the league in TD which is far more important than yards dont you think?

As for this year its not over yet...Then again I guess Brady is no longer elite because he is #11 passing yards #15 TDs.

For 2017 the stats show 12th at 3983 passing yards.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-gross-yards?season_id=15

Here you go...
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm

The one you quoted was the other QBs including their playoff stats.

 

[Smellyman]

Nobody said Wilson was not great.

The issue is consistency........

Aaron Rodgers has been outperformed the last 2 weeks by Wilson, then Cousins. Sunday Rodgers threw another critical 3rd down ground ball in the dirt and missed another bad overthrow in the end zone.

Your perfect and "consistent" QB does NOT exist. :177692:

2nd highest qb efficiecny of all time, you'd hate to be a fan of any other qb in the league.

 

[Smellyman]

He also led the league in TDs and yards in 2017. All by himself

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Man... That Tom Brady guy must be FAR from Elite at #21 on the completion percentage. Wow, such a horrible QB.

What makes a QB Elite. Winning. I can cherry pick stats here and there. But the bottom line is, when you compare him at this point in his career to other "Elites" he's exceptional. His body of work speaks for itself.

What we have here is a classic Self Selection Bias argument. If you watch his body of work, he's brilliant. MOST of his stats support this. Cherry pick all you want. I'll watch him win.

Brady is 41...the previous 2 years he was ranked 5th and 7th.

Wow with that kind on inconsistency he must be awful. I bet he’s never even been to a playoff game.

:stirthepot:

FYI Brady's 6th year in the league.... He posted a 61.3% completion rate.... 4% less than RW at the same stage in his career.

That's cool. Brady has also thrown for 50 TDs in a single season.

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

And that was his 7th year in the league. Stay with us Turbo. Besides, I’m sure he’d rather have the super bowl win from that season than his 50td perfect season where he inconsistently lost to the Giants. Man he must suck

 

[Seanhawk]

Can someone let me know when this horse is dead so I can have sex with it?

 

[Scorpion05]

I'm sorry, but Big Ben threw for over 400 yards and had nothing to show for it on Sunday. Ryan Fitzpatrick has also put up big yardage. Qbs especially in the modern age should be judged mainly by efficiency, touchdowns, and completions. Yardage at times can be empty stats. Drew Brees is playing like the best QB in the league this year despite not having the most yards. Yards matter of course, especially for a high scoring offense..but sometimes within context.

Now, let's look at Wilson's First Half numbers, compared to other Qbs:

Russell Wilson

2018 - 1st Half 107/154, 69% completion, 1,222 yards, 12 TDS, 0 Int, 119.0 QB rating

Tom Brady

2018 - 1st Half 148/226, 65.5% completion, 11 TDS, 2 Int, 98.4 QB rating

Aaron Rodgers

2018 - 1st Half 110/181, 60.8%, 1,396 yards, 9 TDS, 1 Int, 99.1 QB rating

Drew Brees

2018 - 1st Half 158/210, 75.2% completion, 1,847 yards, 17 TDS, 2 Int, 124.4 QB rating


If you also take a look at Game Splits, 2017 was the only outlandish year in which Wilson's 1st to 2nd half numbers were drastically different. In 2016 obviously he was badly injured(hence the low numbers), but pre-2017 his 1st half and 2nd half numbers were pretty even.

I agree with those who say he's a tempo/rhythm QB who needs to get into the flow of things. But I think this is grossly exaggerated compared to other QBs. Every QB has an anomaly year in a particular category. And he's quite frankly shown he has the guts to win the game when it counts. Also, none of the above QBs get the team that far last year with that O-line and that run game. In my opinion of course

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Can someone let me know when this horse is dead so I can have sex with it?

This is where I wish this was in the shack. There would be a Tom Green Dead Moose video inserted.

 

[Ad Hawk]

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

So, you mean like this past Sunday, right?

 

[Smellyman]

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

So, you mean like this past Sunday, right?

Stepped into that one...

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

So, you mean like this past Sunday, right?

Stepped into that one...

Or ALL last season when he was the running and passing game :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers:

 

[rcaido]

how about all of last year...

 

[Smellyman]

True, no running game, no OL and a FG kicker away from making noise in the playoffs.

 

[KiwiHawk]

For 2018, he's ranked 20th in passing yards. 2017 ranked 12th.
For 2018, he's ranked 15th in completion percentage. 2017 ranked 21st.

This is about being elite, those numbers don't really reflect that. I'll even sight my source. Next Wilson Fanboy please.

He's also ranked 11th in Qb Winning percentage in Games started for current QBs.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-completed

ROFL this is exactly what I was talking about. Who cares that Pete Carroll has ALWAYS had a run-first mentality, let's bring up the QB's yardage!

Who cares that the Seahawks always defer when they win the toss and cause slow starts by establishing the run as a strategy - let's talk about first-half vs second-half passing!

Many knowledges, such insightful.

I mean the QB is the only player on the field, right? And calls all the plays, too.

 

[hgwellz12]

Just so I am aware, was Hasselbeck dissected like this on this forum? I wasn't around (here, obviously-my joined date) back then. But was Hass critiqued this heavy handedly? Serious question for the dotnet OGs.

 

[Fade]

The stats are not cherry picked.

First of all Wilson's worst season [injured] (2016) is factored in and hurts his overall numbers. If I wanted to cherry pick I would've omitted that season.

Second of all in 2017 Wilson led the league in total yards running & throwing. [there is your volume if that is what you care about] & total touchdowns without a running game, with a Cable O-Line, and a guy no longer in the NFL calling the plays. Proving he can be more than productive if you take away the running game. So this argument holds no weight. Also too
-4500 yards avg running & throwing over the previous 4 seasons.

Third of all and most importantly, production wise Wilson hangs with the best in the sport over a 50ish game stretch dating back all the way to 2015. Despite the Cabevell handicap. This is no small sample.

Wilson would have numbers like Andy Dalton if he wasn't elite. He wouldn't be able to keep up, especially with Cabevell, but he has, because he is. While providing the clutch play in the 4th quarter to boot.

That's a body.

 

[doso]

Man... That Tom Brady guy must be FAR from Elite at #21 on the completion percentage. Wow, such a horrible QB.

What makes a QB Elite. Winning. I can cherry pick stats here and there. But the bottom line is, when you compare him at this point in his career to other "Elites" he's exceptional. His body of work speaks for itself.

What we have here is a classic Self Selection Bias argument. If you watch his body of work, he's brilliant. MOST of his stats support this. Cherry pick all you want. I'll watch him win.

Brady is 41...the previous 2 years he was ranked 5th and 7th.

Wow with that kind on inconsistency he must be awful. I bet he’s never even been to a playoff game.

:stirthepot:

FYI Brady's 6th year in the league.... He posted a 61.3% completion rate.... 4% less than RW at the same stage in his career.

That's cool. Brady has also thrown for 50 TDs in a single season.

As long as there's a running game the wins should continue. But when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in.

I don’t think you got the memo. We’re running the ball. Passing yards is less relevant. And you say “when the running game faulters, and the games on Wilson's shoulders, that "elite" play disappears and the excuses roll in”... Obviously, you must of missed the game against the Panthers this past weekend. Please go watch it.