Russell Wilson’s talents held back by Carroll

[justafan]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Once again with all the numbers that those guys have put up and you can add Reid, and Sean Peyton they haven't been as successful as Pete. Numbers are great, but who cares if you don't win. Look at last game as an example. NO took care of the ball, stopped the run, forced some turnovers, didn't make any mistakes and won the game eventhough they were out gained by 250 yards.

Exactly. Peyton has had 3 7-9 seasons since he won the SB. Not counting the 7-9 when he was kicked outta the league for the year. How many 7-9 sesons are exceptable to this fanbase?

People want Pete fired for a 10 win season.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

If he hasn't proven he can do everything in any type of situation, he never will. At least in the eyes of those who often DO hold him back. The Stubborn nature shows up over and over again. The draw play on 3rd and 6 when you were back in the game is among the worst we have ever seen from this team. Absolutely no excuse for calling that crap.

 

[AubHawk71]

Not held back, hanging onto.

True, RW is getting paid big dollars and earning it (his stats are insane so far), so the rest of the team including coaches can just phone it in week 3 because they are 2-0 and Brees is out?

This is the NFL. Even those still making rookie money or trying to make it in the league...you're going to run out onto the field in your street clothes TT? Line up in the wrong spot when, as has been mentioned, THAT IS YOUR ONE JOB? Assn't coaches can't keep 11 personnel on the field to the tune of two timeouts burned? At home.

Inexcusable.

'Oh, sorry those7
737Max planes flew themselves into the ground. Just bad luck and an off day... Guess we'll clear a million dollars this year in wages... :? :? '

 

[Halea41]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Actually shanahan has very unfavorable things to say regarding Wilson’s game.

 

[John63]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Actually shanahan has very unfavorable things to say regarding Wilson’s game.

Irrelevant, the point was give a caich who understands how to use a top QB and you will see what he can really do. Instead of this unimaginative, slow walking crap we have now that puts way to much stress on the team.

 

[Jville]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Actually shanahan has very unfavorable things to say regarding Wilson’s game.

Irrelevant, the point was give a caich who understands how to use a top QB and you will see what he can really do. Instead of this unimaginative, slow walking crap we have now that puts way to much stress on the team.

It's no less relevant than the reply.

Some feel that the whole narrative of Carroll holding Russell Wilson back is a myth ..... also a widely held and relevant view.

 

[JGreen79]

It's kinda funny though, that the one game that "Pete Ball" wasn't played this year is Seattle's only loss.

 

[Ozzy]

This thread is two weeks out of date. Wilson has had two of the best games of his life in the last two weeks (a couple drives yesterday notwithstanding) and that doesn't happen unless Pete's adequately "loosed" him.

I hate to keep picking on you because I like you but this is a bad argument. Pete didn't open him up or let him loose he had to because we were down 20 late in the game and forced to utilize Wilson's talents. Pete plays not to lose and it does hold Wilson back somewhat, I haven't seen a single guy around the league disagree with that outside of Seahawks homers who love Pete(as do I) but I think Pete is outdated on offense, at least a little.

 

[Ozzy]

I'll add it's tough because Wilson is also ultra efficient with Pete's system as we've seen so I can understand why some don't think he's holding him back. I think Wilson is Mahomes in a conservative offense and if he played in a different system or any system he would be elite, he's that good.

 

[Jville]

This thread is two weeks out of date. Wilson has had two of the best games of his life in the last two weeks (a couple drives yesterday notwithstanding) and that doesn't happen unless Pete's adequately "loosed" him.

I hate to keep picking on you because I like you but this is a bad argument. Pete didn't open him up or let him loose he had to because we were down 20 late in the game and forced to utilize Wilson's talents. Pete plays not to lose and it does hold Wilson back somewhat, I haven't seen a single guy around the league disagree with that outside of Seahawks homers who love Pete(as do I) but I think Pete is outdated on offense, at least a little.

IMO, the thread subject is out of date or just a myth. Team building is a process. Week 4 features a different match up between two evolving teams that have moved on from week 1.

It is a mistake to focus on a few select frames out of a featured film. Ya just can't see the story that way.

 

[Popeyejones]

Figured this is the right place to leave this little nugget from Lee Sharpe.

All the analytics suggest that the as far as offensive philosophies go, the Seahawks are really holding themselves back by running the ball too much. You either accept that or you just disregard the analytics.

From Sharpe, the Seahawks IN PARTICULAR stand out as a team that's atypically efficient at passing the ball over running the ball, despite their insistence on running the ball.

If you believe PC's philosophy is holding Russell Wilson back, this is the graph for you

 

[justafan]

Figured this is the right place to leave this little nugget from Lee Sharpe.

All the analytics suggest that the as far as offensive philosophies go, the Seahawks are really holding themselves back by running the ball too much. You either accept that or you just disregard the analytics.

From Sharpe, the Seahawks IN PARTICULAR stand out as a team that's atypically efficient at passing the ball over running the ball, despite their insistence on running the ball.

If you believe PC's philosophy is holding Russell Wilson back, this is the graph for you

I see that as running should set up the pass. Just as passing should loosen up the run defense.

 

[thegameq]

Most football games are won with talent of course but also with sheer effort and determination.

Effort and determination are byproducts of the skill set most teams look for in it's players, it doesn't set anyone apart from winning or losing. Most losing teams had plenty of effort and determination, just like we did yesterday.

The NFL is a coach's league. The Patriot's win year after year because their coach not only demands your effort, but also demands mistake free, distraction free and precision execution in every facet.

Pete does not, he allows his players to "be themselves." This has always led to sloppy penalty marred games where we eek out wins because we have more talent than the other team.

This has worked for Pete when he has more talent, but if you haven't noticed over the past 3-4 years we have not had the elite talent to overcome these sorts of games riddled with too many mistakes and penalties.

Sadly, I don't think Pete will ever demand that level of precision execution mistake free football that Belichick demands in order to make up for areas of the team that lack the talent of his opponents. It's why every year they have major injuries and never skip a beat, they just plug in some dude you're never heard of, and he excels.

This x 1000!

It feels as if the rest of the league knows the Patriots way works (including Pete), but don't want to emulate it. They would rather lose using their system--and drag their franchise down with them. It's almost laughable how New England has "owned" the NFL, yet the other teams refuse to duplicate their system.

 

[John63]

This thread is two weeks out of date. Wilson has had two of the best games of his life in the last two weeks (a couple drives yesterday notwithstanding) and that doesn't happen unless Pete's adequately "loosed" him.

I hate to keep picking on you because I like you but this is a bad argument. Pete didn't open him up or let him loose he had to because we were down 20 late in the game and forced to utilize Wilson's talents. Pete plays not to lose and it does hold Wilson back somewhat, I haven't seen a single guy around the league disagree with that outside of Seahawks homers who love Pete(as do I) but I think Pete is outdated on offense, at least a little.

IMO, the thread subject is out of date or just a myth. Team building is a process. Week 4 features a different match up between two evolving teams that have moved on from week 1.

It is a mistake to focus on a few select frames out of a featured film. Ya just can't see the story that way.

Promblrm is our offensive game plan is the same, try to run, keep it close and win in the end by unleashing Wilson, and only deviate if you have to u leash him early and pray you did not wait to long.

 

[scutterhawk]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Payton would have him throwing for 400 yards every game.

Yeah, just like he had Theodore Bridgwater slinging it, TRUTH IS, Payton used Kamara like Pete would have liked to use Carson, TO take the pressure OFF OF HIS QUARTERBACK.
Some of y'all THINK you KNOW better than Pete SMDH :177692:

 

[John63]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Payton would have him throwing for 400 yards every game.

Yeah, just like he had Theodore Bridgwater slinging it, TRUTH IS, Payton used Kamara like Pete would have liked to use Carson, TO take the pressure OFF OF HIS QUARTERBACK.
Some of y'all THINK you KNOW better than Pete SMDH :177692:

It has nothing to do with us knowing or not knowing better than PC it is what he has said. He has said time and time again he wants to run, keep in close win in the end

 

[chris98251]

Most football games are won with talent of course but also with sheer effort and determination.

Effort and determination are byproducts of the skill set most teams look for in it's players, it doesn't set anyone apart from winning or losing. Most losing teams had plenty of effort and determination, just like we did yesterday.

The NFL is a coach's league. The Patriot's win year after year because their coach not only demands your effort, but also demands mistake free, distraction free and precision execution in every facet.

Pete does not, he allows his players to "be themselves." This has always led to sloppy penalty marred games where we eek out wins because we have more talent than the other team.

This has worked for Pete when he has more talent, but if you haven't noticed over the past 3-4 years we have not had the elite talent to overcome these sorts of games riddled with too many mistakes and penalties.

Sadly, I don't think Pete will ever demand that level of precision execution mistake free football that Belichick demands in order to make up for areas of the team that lack the talent of his opponents. It's why every year they have major injuries and never skip a beat, they just plug in some dude you're never heard of, and he excels.

This x 1000!

It feels as if the rest of the league knows the Patriots way works (including Pete), but don't want to emulate it. They would rather lose using their system--and drag their franchise down with them. It's almost laughable how New England has "owned" the NFL, yet the other teams refuse to duplicate their system.

Well when you can open up Belicheks head and take his brain out and put it in Pete's that can happen.

He is an enigma, many of his assistance have moved on and tried and failed, he has a intuition about things, hands on, off the cuff style. Sure they game plan, but that's where it stops, if they show something or if something happens he will change at the drop of a hat.

Also Kraft owns the best Spy Satellites out there now, US Government has to lease them for their Intelligence.

 

[John63]

Can you imagine McVay or Shanahan with Wilson? One can dream.
Seems like we always play not to lose.

Actually shanahan has very unfavorable things to say regarding Wilson’s game.

Irrelevant, the point was give a caich who understands how to use a top QB and you will see what he can really do. Instead of this unimaginative, slow walking crap we have now that puts way to much stress on the team.

It's no less relevant than the reply.

Some feel that the whole narrative of Carroll holding Russell Wilson back is a myth ..... also a widely held and relevant view.

Then those who think that are not watching the games.

 

[Fade]

Figured this is the right place to leave this little nugget from Lee Sharpe.

All the analytics suggest that the as far as offensive philosophies go, the Seahawks are really holding themselves back by running the ball too much. You either accept that or you just disregard the analytics.

From Sharpe, the Seahawks IN PARTICULAR stand out as a team that's atypically efficient at passing the ball over running the ball, despite their insistence on running the ball.

If you believe PC's philosophy is holding Russell Wilson back, this is the graph for you

Philosophically Pete Carroll wants Shanahan's offense, he just doesn't know how to achieve it. Thankfully Pete has a QB who can bale his ass out every week.

#Free Russell

 

[Jville]

Actually shanahan has very unfavorable things to say regarding Wilson’s game.

Irrelevant, the point was give a caich who understands how to use a top QB and you will see what he can really do. Instead of this unimaginative, slow walking crap we have now that puts way to much stress on the team.

It's no less relevant than the reply.

Some feel that the whole narrative of Carroll holding Russell Wilson back is a myth ..... also a widely held and relevant view.

Then those rhaththink the are not watching the games.

:177692: ......... same games ......... same charts ........... generate different inferences. LOL ..... happens all the time. :biggthumpup: