Russ benched

[James in PA]

Bronco Ted.

 

[IndyHawk]

I tried signing up there a couple times to have a "logical discussion" and to call out John63 but they wouldn't approve me as a member.. .

I did mine after the trade
They were high on him early and then midway saw it like here pretty much.
They also turned on John63-ending threads after he did John things.

 

[Ozzy]

Which is?A QB that can run Sean Payton's offense completely and not the
version Winston ran.
A QB that is young and has years left - 36 yrs old and slow isn't it.
I know it sucks for you but all QBs have an expiration date.

lol why would it suck for me I literally said I’d bench him too

 

[Cyrus12]

Bronco Ted.

Damn...that didn't age well for him..

 

[Ozzy]

I was waiting for this one.

The better quarterback is the one who executes the concepts as designed and happened to not cost THE WORLD to acquire.

The better quarterback is the one who isn't getting himself sacked so egregiously that his own offensive line is visibly pissed at him.

There's a lot of context missing in these box score statistics. Payton has done the best he can with him, and still, they're in the same place. He won't run what's called, and he can't do his heroball shit at age 35.

If Payton can't get him in line, no one can. So now, Payton's benching his ass for a quarterback who will run what he calls.

This box score statistics game is what John63 did for years. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now. It's too narrow to tell the actual story of what RW is.

Yeah no offense but I’m going to side with guys like griff,Kurt B, Albright, Simms and other film guys who say the numbers match the tape. How many Denver games have you watched? 1?2? I’ve watched a ton and what you’re saying is not even remotely close to the tape.

 

[IndyHawk]

lol why would it suck for me I literally said I’d bench him too

Even if $$ not involved? I guess I misread - my bad.

 

[keasley45]

Which guy is playing better?

A: 17/9 TD-INT ratio 64% completion percentage and 3145 yards
B: 26/8 TD-INT ratio 66% completion percentage and 3070 yards


I think it's funny some people in this very thread claim one guy is terrible while arguing one guy is a top 10 player at QB and the top 10 player's skill position players are light years better.

Smart move for Denver though and I would do the same thing. You need to reset there and he's not the answer moving forward.

Pnw -

One could argue that Lemonade and grape juice are just about equal, and grape juice maybe has the edge because it is slightly more refined.

But

Geno is making lemonade from lemons. Russell is making grape juice from wine. There's context. And there is film.

you cant just look at stats. After all this time and all the shiney numbers covering for his faults, doesn't the benching change your thinking at all? He simply is incapable of running an NFL offense. It's on tape over and over and over again and has been for years. And now one of the best offensive minds who looks at Russ everyday. Works with him. Talks to him. Watches him run plays that he designs and has watched his team underperform, is benching him.

Is he in the same bunch of crazy board members who sees Russ as less than? You don't think Sean wouldnt take Geno in a heartbeat? Geno in his offense would have far outperformed what Russ did this year. No doubt. When a QB can't make basic High School reads, there's a problem.


Russ has the benefit of one of the best offensive minds in the league tutoring him. It was stated from before he was hired, that if anyone can save Russ, Sean could. And what happened?

Geno doesn't have a tutor. I'd wager he probably knows more about offense than Shane because he's been doing it longer. And yet that's who is calling the plays for him.

At best, your comp makes Russ look even worse. With all of the resources he had, he is comparable to a 2nd year starter (2nd after a long hiatus) with no running game, a sloppy D, a banged up O line and a understudy O coordinator.

Sean got about the same out of Russ as he did Jameis Winston. And that speaks volumes.

Russ has has the benefit pf a D giving him opportunity after opportunity. Short fields. Possess after additional possession and did little with it to the tune of one of the poorest yards per play averages in the league

 

[Ozzy]

Pnw -

One could argue that Lemonade and grape juice are just about equal, and grape juice maybe has the edge because it is slightly more refined.

But

Geno is making lemonade from lemons. Russell is making grape juice from wine. There's context. And there is film.

you cant just look at stats. After all this time and all the shiney numbers covering for his faults, doesn't the benching change your thinking at all? He simply is incapable of running an NFL offense. It's on tape over and over and over again and has been for years. And now one of the best offensive minds who looks at Russ everyday. Works with him. Talks to him. Watches him run plays that he designs and has watched his team underperform, is benching him.

Is he in the same bunch of crazy board members who sees Russ as less than? You don't think Sean wouldnt take Geno in a heartbeat? Geno in his offense would have far outperformed what Russ did this year. No doubt. When a QB can't make basic High School reads, there's a problem.


Russ has the benefit of one of the best offensive minds in the league tutoring him. It was stated from before he was hired, that if anyone can save Russ, Sean could. And what happened?

Geno doesn't have a tutor. I'd wager he probably knows more about offense than Shane because he's been doing it longer. And yet that's who is calling the plays for him.

At best, your comp makes Russ look even worse. With all of the resources he had, he is comparable to a 2nd year starter (2nd after a long hiatus) with no running game, a sloppy D, a banged up O line and a understudy O coordinator.

Sean got about the same out of Russ as he did Jameis Winston. And that speaks volumes.

Russ has has the benefit pf a D giving him opportunity after opportunity. Short fields. Possess after additional possession and did little with it to the tune of one of the poorest yards per play averages in the league

I don’t fully agree but again I appreciate the thought process and just being decent while disagreeing with me. It’s an interesting topic for sure

 

[Ozzy]

Even if $$ not involved? I guess I misread - my bad.

We should’ve moved on from him and this helps our third round pick we’re getting potentially so I love it and if I was Payton I’d bench him for sure. My point is most of the people saying he sucks based on his production also try to convince me Geno is near elite with much worse production and they’re outing themselves as not being objective. If Russ is trash with those numbers than you can’t tell me Geno is a stud while being worse across the board with much better receiving weapons, it’s hypocritical.

Payton knows Russ isn’t the future so bench him now, it saves the team money and you can see what you have in your backup.

 

[Lagartixa]

This is delicious. As it looks now, Wilson will end up with the $124M that were fully guaranteed at signing and no more, so the Broncos end up paying $62M per year for one year of a bottom-three-in-the-league QB and one year of a QB somewhere around the edge between the third and fourth quartiles of starting QBs.

The Broncos look wise trying to get away from a QB who can't run a planned offense, can't read a defense, and costs as much as top-level QBs, but even making the right move by not digging the hole any deeper (which guaranteeing Wilson $37M for 2025 would do), they're still stuck with a total of $85M of unaccounted-for bonus that either has to come completely off the Broncos' 2024 cap or can be split into $35.4M of dead 2024 cap and $49.6M of dead 2025 cap. Either way, that's just glorious for those of us who dislike the Broncos.

Really, the only way the whole situation could possibly be funnier would be if The Teeth had still been in charge and responsible for the worst trade and the worst contract extension in the Denver Broncos' 64-year history. Even without that, the Wilson trade is currently vying with Largent's hit on Harden as my all-time favorite Seahawks-Broncos "eat that, ya dicktwists!" moment.

Now we could sit around and fantasize about stuff like, say, Jerruh using Wilson for leverage in hardball negotiations with Prescott this offseason, leading to Prescott playing for some AFC team or the Vikings or something and Wilson going and ruining the title chances of the Cowboys' current roster core, but I just don't think there's any real chance of that happening. And it's unfortunate, but I think even a team as poorly run as the Raiders will be smart enough not to guarantee Wilson much, so Wilson won't be able to hurt any other teams the way he's kicked the Broncos-fan nation in its collective crotch. Still, to the extent he can make other fan bases unhappy, here's hoping it's a deserving team like the Raiders or Cheatriots.

 

[toffee]

With his ill treatment of Wilson, Cirara isn't dining with Payton anytime soon:

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yeah no offense but I’m going to side with guys like griff,Kurt B, Albright, Simms and other film guys who say the numbers match the tape. How many Denver games have you watched? 1?2? I’ve watched a ton and what you’re saying is not even remotely close to the tape.

I'm not exactly saying that the numbers don't match the tape. I'm saying that the numbers don't match what he's doing for that franchise.

Let's put aside for a moment that his pocket navigation has never improved, and that he still is looking off designed concepts far too often in favor of unscripted play.

The trade-off on Russ that film dudes like Griff and Matty (I'm not including Allbright, who is an absolute joke and should not be considered a film guy) have maintained or supported is that *there is one type of offense that Russell Wilson can run.* This is not something Sean Payton is running in terms of boot/PA stuff, which is where the criticism is coming from, but it is philosophically more akin to how he succeeds (low volume of attempts).

Kurt Benkert also dug into Russ hard earlier this year, claiming that Russ was actively and purposefully prioritizing his own statistics over the success of his offense.

Even with Kurt being more complimentary towards Russell than Payton, Kurt acknowledged that much of Russell's success is coming from the fact that he was way too fat for his own good and lost 15 pounds this offseason (which he needed to do... for several years now).

If we're going to appeal to the absolute authority of those film guys, I think you're opening yourself up to a LOT of conclusions that they are CERTAIN of but that you strongly disagree with - especially relating to your original comparison of Russ to Geno (Griff especially would have something to say about the actual accuracy of that comparison).

 

[edogg23]

It would taste a lot sweeter if we weren’t going through a similar situation with Jamal Adams at a smaller pay scale thankfully.

 

[keasley45]

This is delicious. As it looks now, Wilson will end up with the $124M that were fully guaranteed at signing and no more, so the Broncos end up paying $62M per year for one year of a bottom-three-in-the-league QB and one year of a QB somewhere around the edge between the third and fourth quartiles of starting QBs.

The Broncos look wise trying to get away from a QB who can't run a planned offense, can't read a defense, and costs as much as top-level QBs, but even making the right move by not digging the hole any deeper (which guaranteeing Wilson $37M for 2025 would do), they're still stuck with a total of $85M of unaccounted-for bonus that either has to come completely off the Broncos' 2024 cap or can be split into $35.4M of dead 2024 cap and $49.6M of dead 2025 cap. Either way, that's just glorious for those of us who dislike the Broncos.

Really, the only way the whole situation could possibly be funnier would be if The Teeth had still been in charge and responsible for the worst trade and the worst contract extension in the Denver Broncos' 64-year history. Even without that, the Wilson trade is currently vying with Largent's hit on Harden as my all-time favorite Seahawks-Broncos "eat that, ya dicktwists!" moment.

Now we could sit around and fantasize about stuff like, say, Jerruh using Wilson for leverage in hardball negotiations with Prescott this offseason, leading to Prescott playing for some AFC team or the Vikings or something and Wilson going and ruining the title chances of the Cowboys' current roster core, but I just don't think there's any real chance of that happening. And it's unfortunate, but I think even a team as poorly run as the Raiders will be smart enough not to guarantee Wilson much, so Wilson won't be able to hurt any other teams the way he's kicked the Broncos-fan nation in its collective crotch. Still, to the extent he can make other fan bases unhappy, here's hoping it's a deserving team like the Raiders or Cheatriots.

I think he swallow his pride and redo his deal. It's the only way he can save faelce, honestly. Basically pay the Broncos to give him another shot at the job next year.

If he'd ever just come straight and admit he has tons of work to do and that he needs to work on that. if he actually restructured and improved his game, I'd pull for the dude.

 

[IndyHawk]

I think he swallow his pride and redo his deal. It's the only way he can save faelce, honestly. Basically pay the Broncos to give him another shot at the job next year.

If he'd ever just come straight and admit he has tons of work to do and that he needs to work on that. if he actually restructured and improved his game, I'd pull for the dude.

I don't think he's doing any of that at all.

 

[bsuhawk]

Hmm...I expect that Lock leaves Seattle and signs with a team willing to give him a shot at being the starter. Wouldn't it be interesting if that team is Denver?

 

[LastRideOut]

lolz all around...

 

[Cyrus12]

Hmm...I expect that Lock leaves Seattle and signs with a team willing to give him a shot at being the starter. Wouldn't it be interesting if that team is Denver?

It would even be sweeter if we got a comp pick somehow because of it..

 

[James in PA]

I don't think he's doing any of that at all.

I agree. And more importantly, Payton wants nothing to do with Me3. Russ has played his last down as a Donk.

 

[bsuhawk]

It would even be sweeter if we got a comp pick somehow because of it..

LOL...That would be perfect!