Ruminations on the Ravens Game

HawkGA

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nanomoz":1ubtgvac said:
^Seriously.^

People nowadays expect 50-plus-yard field goals to be gimmes, let alone in terrible weather like today.

Get a grip. 2/3 of his misses are 55 and 53 yards.

Not looking up stats at the moment but hasn't he missed at least one extra point and a few more field goals? My comment wasn't based on just yesterday.
 

HawkGA

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HawkGA":2mte4d4d said:
How much of not being able to beat man coverage is on the WRs versus the schemes and the routes?

Similar question, how much of it is on Wilson not being will to throw into coverage?

**This is in fact a question, not intended as a comment posing as a question.
 

seahawks-in-qc

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my 2 cents is that, as much as I love Carroll, he still makes costly decisions during the game. We have to stop challening PI. I mean if Belichick says so we probably should listen to him, right?

Also, the long FG in the rain was a game changer. If we could have pin them instead I believe the game would have been totally different. They took some momentum from there, went the field and score. Also, if I am not mistaken, it was the drive that BAL went for on 4th and goal and scored the touchdown. From that point, it went downhill.

I believe we mostly got outcoach on offense and Lamar made the athletic plays he needed to do to get out with the win. Happy with that the defense did for the most part : we just got out-athleticism by Jackson. Some great plays by Blair and Clowney. Keep also in mind it was the first game of Reed in so long.

Side note : is our offense better against zones or mans? As many mentionned, our WRs seemed to be buckle up by the man press coverage in second half.

P.S : sorry for spelling, English is my second language as I live in Quebec, Canada!
 

acer1240

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Good stuff Fade. I think losing Uncle Will is going to be a much larger factor than most of us thought.
 

JGfromtheNW

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- Hawks chose to throw the ball too much. I thought it was weird that Russ had thrown the ball almost 10 times more than we had rushed in the 3rd quarter. On a day where it's windy and rainy, and 3 games in a row of Carson getting 100+ yards on the ground, it made no sense to me to throw the ball so much.

- It seemed like Russ was under duress almost immediately on most pass plays, which lead to him running around and making awkward throws without his feet under him. Russ wasn't on point and seemed hesitant almost the entire game. I've never seen him pat the ball and pump so much.

- The pick-6 was a terrible pass, but I can see how Russ and Brown played it the way they did. It looked like Peters completely bailed on the flat and by the time Russ got the ball out (which was a weak pass that was thrown without setting his feet), he was screaming up the field. It was like an accidental bait by Peters to my eye.

- The defense was ok, but ok wasn't going to cut it against Lamar Jackson yesterday. Too often our ends went straight up the field leaving huge running lanes for Jackson to run through after letting zones clear out and defenders to turn their backs. The 4th and 2 for a touchdown and seeing them march 95 yards for a score were gut punches.

- Not sure why Pete thinks we should go for a 53 yard field goal in those conditions. I think the better choice is to go for the 1st down or just punt it and pin them.

- DK had a tough game. Welcome to the league, rook.

- The young DBs looked good. I'm super happy to see Blair perform well in his first NFL start. Flowers played really well. I've been pleasantly surprised by his and Griffin's play this year. Tedric Thompson needs to see less of the field. Tired of watching him get beat deep.
 

LoneHawkFan

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Thanks Fade; love it. Agree virtually 100%...

The defense was impressive, actually, all things considered. DBs had their best game of the season. I like Blair also. We need to learn how to tackle better and we need to get creative on the DLine for pressure. I believe we have the personnel in place for a top-third level defense in time for the playoffs.

This offense doesn't lack personnel. We don't need at TE to be successful. The OLine is average or better. Wilson sacked once and as a team we ran for 4 yards a pop. Carson had several runs with good lanes to run in. I believe the blocking is adequate.

What is missing, to me, is intelligence. Our offense performs like a person who gets through college, gets their Master's Degree maybe even...but when you talk to them they just can't get past textbook concepts and thought processes; i.e. they aren't creative and aren't critical thinkers. Each play in the Hawks' playbook, individually, can be a very successful play...but in the context of game-flow and situation, it just looks like someone trying really hard but just doesn't "get it". It's hard to quantify, its hard to even contemplate sometimes.

Pete and Schotty schemed us to 3 FGs and a TD. Russ posted a <50% completion% and 65.5 QBR. We won ToP, yds, ran more plays...yet our offense created 3 garbage-time points in the 2nd half.

Here's how others did earlier this season against the Baltimore defense:

-Freddie Kitchens schemed the Cleveland Browns to 5 TDs- at Baltimore! Mayfield went 67% and 102 QBR- and that's with an INT.
-Ryan Fitzpatrick had a better QBR against this team than Russ did, again also with an INT.
-In his 2nd game ever in the NFL, with a below average OLine, Kyler Murray threw for 350 and had a 90 QBR.
-Mahomes went for 375 and 3 TDs, 73% and 132 QBR.
-Mason Rudolph went 65% and a TD, 100 QBR.
-Only the hapless Bungals fared worse than we did with their QB; Dalton still completed >50% passes, including 8 completions to RBs and TEs for 90 yds: they weren't long seam routes...they were underneath routes and check-downs.

Point being...this wasn't a good pass-defense AT ALL. And yet, we couldn't scheme this offense to more than 1 TD? I don't fricking get it. It makes zero sense to me.
 

bbsplitter

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- If we stop stubbornly keeping 3 linebackers on the field and actually bring in another DB when the situation calls for it, I think the perception change would be astonishing as to how well our LB's are doing. They are asked to do more than any other LB group in the league.
- The replays didn't really show it, but that pass they credited Earl for breaking up in the endzone to Moore earlier in the game actually went right through his hands, so that missed TD wasn't really because of good defense like the announcers were crediting it with.
- DK has his worst game yet. Just offhand, it looks like when he has bad games he is playing very 'tight'. He alligator arms pretty much everything and looks like he is flexing everything. The games he does well in he seems to be a lot looser and more relaxed as far as his receiving style. Might not make much sense but that's just what it seems like to me.
- I've harped on Pete's offensive downfalls quite a bit, and the most prevailing counter argument is that it's because of the lack of execution, not the way it was drawn up. This is the first game were I totally agree with that assessment (for this game). There were many times the announcers highlighted how well each play was drawn up. For the most part there were pretty good concepts in the game. RW missed a lot of passes to start the game. People are crediting the Raven's tight coverage, and that had something to do with it, but there were passes to be had.
 

justafan

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Nice write up Fade. I appreciate the time you took to gives us you opinion. Its hard to disagree with any of your observations.
 

Tical21

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C'mon man, Brown ran a smoke route. Not coming back to the ball or shielding the defender, LOL.

Russ was unleashed. Abandoned the running game and threw 40+ times, and you all got the results you've been begging for.
 

DomeHawk

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Tical21":1mt88gji said:
C'mon man, Brown ran a smoke route. Not coming back to the ball or shielding the defender, LOL.

Russ was unleashed. Abandoned the running game and threw 40+ times, and you all got the results you've been begging for.

Abandoned the running game? Chris Carson was averaging 3.1 yds per carry on 21 carries.

PC also commented on Brown not coming back to the ball.
 

allblackraven

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You guys are over-reacting almost as bad as Ravens fans.

The only issues I see with the Seahawks are the O line and TEs. If we managed to put some inside pressure on Russell, it's a clear sign you need an upgrade there. TE(s) would help with blocking and passing game.

The rest of the team looks good, I really like how Carson plays and your young secondary has a lot of promise.

Both Ds surprised me yesterday, they played like we're used to them playing over the years. Great atmosphere, Clink was really rocking. Good luck with the rest of the season.
 

Northwest Seahawk

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allblackraven":btboye0a said:
You guys are over-reacting almost as bad as Ravens fans.

The only issues I see with the Seahawks are the O line and TEs. If we managed to put some inside pressure on Russell, it's a clear sign you need an upgrade there. TE(s) would help with blocking and passing game.

The rest of the team looks good, I really like how Carson plays and your young secondary has a lot of promise.

Both Ds surprised me yesterday, they played like we're used to them playing over the years. Great atmosphere, Clink was really rocking. Good luck with the rest of the season.

Well I've been complaining about Center Guard for 3 years falling on def ears around here. You spotted it in one game and your right our Offensive line is weak up the middle Center is not good enough neither is LG. And we have moved our best Tackle prospect in years to RG . The O-line has some serious problems same with FS and Nickle Corner. We also have problems at LB and imo none of these rookie LB's are the answer including Barton.
 

Chapow

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Fade":1e5wxbth said:
Polk738":1e5wxbth said:
Pete needs to give it up challenging these PI's, instantly knew they were losing another TO as soon as I saw that.

In his post-game presser it seemed he has now finally realized he can't throw the challenge flag anymore on those plays unless it is crazy egregious. At least he admitted as much. We'll just have to wait and see if that's the case at this point.

IMO, that was the intent of the rule change the whole time. So that coaches could challenge egregious PI that wasn't called, not so that they could challenge typical plays with a little contact that you might be able to make a case for PI if you look really hard at 8 different angles in slow motion.

Really hope Pete has finally realized this.
 

Own The West

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What stood out for me this game is we abandoned the run and looked like a Bevell 2.0 finesse team.

What's with those crazy back field motions with Lockett 10-12 yards behind the line? That's not scary. It's 10-12 yards behind the line and not a surprise. Just wastes snap clock and gives the man defender time to cross the formation and get in position.

Russ wasn't setting his feet regularly this game. He did a lot of arm-only flings, which might explain why nearly every one of his passes was short. I swear he's only had about 2 deep balls this year where the receiver didn't have to come back and highpoint the ball in traffic, but yesterday was ridiculous. Something else might have been going on with him though. The pick 6 and a couple misses of open receivers (one might have been Metcalf running his comeback too deep, but the other in the late 4Q was a straight up miss).

Very encouraged by our secondary play. Was disappointed that we didn't adjust to Jackson's running. The game reminded me of the first time we played Kapernick's 9ers and he ran all over us, but didn't do much with his arm. That shouldn't have been a surprise to us and we should have been prepared.
 

SoulfishHawk

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They looked like they had zero energy all day. After the pick 6, Russ was very tentative. He was due for a bad game, unfortunately the entire team looked flat and got outplayed and he didn't look good at all.

On to Sunday. Get it to 6-2, which I think all of us would have been plenty happy with before the season.
 

PNW25

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Tical21":1c3jvk3p said:
C'mon man, Brown ran a smoke route. Not coming back to the ball or shielding the defender, LOL.

Russ was unleashed. Abandoned the running game and threw 40+ times, and you all got the results you've been begging for.


I was waiting for this argument to show up and it did. See if you throw a lot you lose! It's intellectually dishonest on multiple levels. Where are you tical when they are more aggressive and win like the two previous weeks?

We lost because the line was injured and struggled. We also didn't adapt because of their failures to a more quick passing scheme when we needed to.

Last night showed me why the Bellichek is light years ahead of Pete. They stay aggressive and true to their game plan regardless of the score. Pete gets a 7-10 point lead and he goes conservative allowing teams to claw their way back because being so conservative is all he knows at the moment. It forces every game to be extremely close and norrows the margin for error to almost nothing. I think at his age he is stuck in this thought process. He wins enough that it justifies his belief set but misses that Russ is so good that it bails him out constantly. I love Pete and he does so many things well but something broke him. His comments on 4th down decisions even a day after each game is beyond odd and telling....he doesn't seem capable of getting it and I don't think there is anyone in the building who can tell him otherwise.
 

seedhawk

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To me it is pretty simple. J Harbaugh coaches the ravens just like PC does the Hawks..Both teams try to shorten the game, limit possesions, and really try to beat you up physically instead of just outscoring you. Sunday, because we gave them 2 TD's, the Ravens played pete ball better than we did.
 

ivotuk

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SantaClaraHawk":2605fwuq said:
Well Earl was cammed going up to seahawk players and then exchanging jerseys with Russ. I don't think he hates us necessarily.

But this was a pit in your stomach-type game. Not just the pick-6 and fumble, but the drops and the lackluster defensive play that IME has been overlooked because it's the NFL and that wasn't important because we won, right--by 1 or 2 or 4.

Sooner or later--and probably sooner--it was gonna catch up.

Anyway, I have a garbage-time question. When the game is defacto done with six minutes left in the fourth quarter, why don't teams put 2s out there to 1) see what they have and 2) mitigate potential injury loss to the 1s? Not just Seattle but generally. The game is effectively over with the only advantage being possibly giving live snap experience to said 2s.

That's a great question for Pete. He probably plays more young players than anyone else, but I wonder if there is opportunity to play them even more.
 
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Fade

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HawkGA":5fm205y2 said:
HawkGA":5fm205y2 said:
How much of not being able to beat man coverage is on the WRs versus the schemes and the routes?

Similar question, how much of it is on Wilson not being will to throw into coverage?

**This is in fact a question, not intended as a comment posing as a question.

Russ was completing to expecation, 50%. So as I mentioned, there wasn't a lot of rub routes, and the like to try and scheme WR's open. It was 1-on-1 and try and win, which wasn't happening a lot.

The talent level isn't good enough, after Lockett. So it was both.

Schotty didn't do himself any favors, that being said, I am not going to kill him for it, unless it becomes a weekly occurrence.

I am in the camp that they need another target to pair with Lockett, preferably at TE, but AJ Green at WR will do.
 

xray

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They got whipped by a hungry road team ; with a QB that is almost impossible to contain by the defense . The defense were in awe of Jackson...they said so after . How about the weather factor ? The Hawks live in the Seattle area . Do they practice in a climate controlled practice facility ? Looked like it .They don't look fully prepared this season. 5-2 is a good record though but how sustainable ?
 
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