Ruminations on the Ravens Game

Fade

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As per request I will be posting a reoccurring weekly post-game thread for everyone on .NET to post their thoughts (ruminations) about the game.

The story of this game for me was watching the Ravens play aggressive man coverage nearly the entire game, and the Seahawks did not have an answer for it. The Seahawks WRs/TEs looked very pedestrian and over-matched throughout, aside from some Russell Wilson to Tyler Lockett magic, here and there. They need to get a big time player at TE, as the Dissly hole is cavernous. Also disappointed that I didn't see any rub routes, man-beaters to take advantage. They pretty much played into the Ravens hands, asking guys like Jaron Brown to win one on one.

A stark contrast was Seattle's defense, playing the opposite style. They were sitting back in their zone and making great plays on the ball most of the game. So both styles can work. The coverage was on point mostly, and I came away pleased with the improvement that is being made. Their plan for defending Lamar was baffling though. Too many times they had defenders rushing aggressively up field with no edge contain.

Pro Tip: You might want to stay in front of Lamr and play contain, because you aren't going to catch him from behind. Lamar had free running lanes essentially whenever he wanted. The Seahawks defense is also still getting eaten up by TE/RB screens, if they keep putting out bad film, teams are going to keep exploiting it.

The young DBs looked really good with Flowers having his best game, and Blair showing why he can be a long term starter, I believe eventually at SS.

The Pick 6: Russell Wilson's fault. 85% on him.

But I would like to discuss Jaron Brown's role on the play. Jaron Brown stood there flat footed in cement shoes. Did not comeback to the ball, didn't shield the defender with his body, and allowed Peters to run right in front of him for the easy pick, while he stood there just watching. Embarrassing. The commentators also called his TD drop embarrassing as well. I can't argue with them.

Pete the Gambler. Going for a 50+ yard FG in bad weather, when it is lower %, than going for it on 4th and 2-or-3. What Pete seems to think are the safe plays, are actually have the lower % chance of working. He is consistently taking these gambles, and he would be wise to start meeting with his analytics people more often.

John Harbaugh went for it when he had the chance and was the backbreaking swing that changed the game.
This is a fascinating thing to watch, as the math nerds are winning, and analytics are becoming a bigger part of the game as the years go by. The teams that continue to ignore it, are going to find themselves playing catch up with the rest of the league.


Random Player notes:


Blair / Flowers / Griffin: The Seahawks a quietly building a nice, young secondary. If they can get an ET clone, and an upgrade at Nickel they will be in business.

DK right now doesn't have the hands yet to be a feature WR. Those 50/50 balls feel like 10/90.

Clowney is still ace against the run, but plays too high, and doesn't posses the bend to ever be a double digit sack guy. For those wondering why he isn't a double digit sack guy. He is what he is. A destructive force against the run that will get you 5-8 sacks. The trade was still totally worth it.

Is Bobby Wagner no longer elite? I think it is mainly due to scheme change, but also eyeball test wise, he looks significantly slower.

The young LBers need to start seeing the field more in general, to speed up their development, or at the very least see what they have.

Jamarco Jones, appeared to continue to play well, I will fallback and wait for the PFF grades though to see how the O-Line did in total.

Final Thoughts:

I thought the 12s really brought it in this game, and had their best outing bringing the noise. But unfortunately Seattle has played their worst football of the year in 3 of 4 home games, and need to bring their road energy home.

In the big picture of things this loss isn't a big deal. AFC opponent. Some times when you lose you really win, lessons need to be learned the hard way sometimes. I expect the Seahawks to start looking for a trade to improve their offensive weapons even more aggressively now after this loss. They need to, otherwise teams are going to continue to takeaway Lockett as best they can, and have someone else try and beat them.
 

Shanegotyou11

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Russ pick 6 changed the whole game.

Meyers is whatever.

I agree with the back end of the defense if we get a awesome safety we will be fine.

The offense lost the game today. The defense isnt good this yr but today i know lamar ran all over but 16 points allowed is fine. You win 90% of the time. The offense gave them 14.

Earl hates Pete.
 

QuahHawk

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I think the Defense played pretty well. Lamar looked a bit like Vick running around out there. So quick and fast. He was close to getting blown up but really didn't take many big hits. Was hoping to see more interior pressure with Reeds return, he looked winded late in the 3rd.
 

SantaClaraHawk

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Well Earl was cammed going up to seahawk players and then exchanging jerseys with Russ. I don't think he hates us necessarily.

But this was a pit in your stomach-type game. Not just the pick-6 and fumble, but the drops and the lackluster defensive play that IME has been overlooked because it's the NFL and that wasn't important because we won, right--by 1 or 2 or 4.

Sooner or later--and probably sooner--it was gonna catch up.

Anyway, I have a garbage-time question. When the game is defacto done with six minutes left in the fourth quarter, why don't teams put 2s out there to 1) see what they have and 2) mitigate potential injury loss to the 1s? Not just Seattle but generally. The game is effectively over with the only advantage being possibly giving live snap experience to said 2s.
 

Polk738

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Pete needs to give it up challenging these PI's, instantly knew they were losing another TO as soon as I saw that.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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We're not gonna get another Earl folks. But, if we can get a guy that's 85-90% of Earl we'll have some fine all around DB play.

Appreciate your efforts Fade. Good stuff. My only quibble is that 85% on Russ number. More like 90-95% imo but that's splitting hairs really.
 

Sports Hernia

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Wenhawk":ti4wtona said:
I think the Defense played pretty well. Lamar looked a bit like Vick running around out there. So quick and fast. He was close to getting blown up but really didn't take many big hits. Was hoping to see more interior pressure with Reeds return, he looked winded late in the 3rd.
Disagree. The “only gave up 16 points” stat is misleading.
The linebackers were no existent, no pass rush, bad tackling, bad angles.
Secondary, outside of T2 look decent though.

Pete needs to realize he doesn’t have the LOB anymore and play accordingly with the offense.
See: put up lots of points. You cannot waste plays on horizontal pass plays, bubble screens, and long draw plays, and being predictable with running plays on first down that constantly fail. Also need to throw the ball past the sticks on crucial 3rd downs. You cannot always count on your receivers getting YAC.
 

morgulon1

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Our M.O. is to play tight, hard fought defensive games . Then the offense gives up 2 touchdowns.

That won't work in this league.

I still feel like were a player or two away on defense and a wr or tight end away on offense.
 

FearTheBeak

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A couple thoughts/ruminations...

I kind of expected our WR situation to be a wildcard. Lockett is truely gifted but haven't seen him pull away as true number ones can when teams game plan for him. Yet his connection with Russ is something special to see.

Carson has exceeded my expectations. He just doesn't flash but just gets yards where there aren't any sometimes.

Clowney is worth every penny.

We're not even half way, yet we're 5-2.

This is a second half team.

I like Blair.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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morgulon1":2bqem52v said:
.......I still feel like were a player or two away on defense and a wr or tight end away on offense.
Concur, and let's face it they obviously targeted next year with all the draft picks as the draft to finish the reset. One player on D is a quality, above average FS.
 
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Fade

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Polk738":27d7lwat said:
Pete needs to give it up challenging these PI's, instantly knew they were losing another TO as soon as I saw that.

In his post-game presser it seemed he has now finally realized he can't throw the challenge flag anymore on those plays unless it is crazy egregious. At least he admitted as much. We'll just have to wait and see if that's the case at this point.
 
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Fade

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hawksfansinceday1":1jix6py6 said:
We're not gonna get another Earl folks. But, if we can get a guy that's 85-90% of Earl we'll have some fine all around DB play.

Appreciate your efforts Fade. Good stuff. My only quibble is that 85% on Russ number. More like 90-95% imo but that's splitting hairs really.

Yeah, for sure.

I am not expecting ET level, just a guy who has a similar skill set and can play center field, so they don't have to play so much 2 high, and they can put Blair on TEs underneath.

Brown was a statue. Shouldn't have thrown it, as it is Jaron freaking Brown, KYP. It was ultimately Wilson's fault.
 

HawkGA

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Didn't get to see the game and only loosely followed it online. I've heard people complain about the defense, but when I see the 14 points given up directly by the offense, it's hard to blame the defense for much. That has happened just way too often this season. Too many non-defensive points given up. No team is good enough to withstand that on a regular basis. Happened with the Saints and now the Ravens. Happened with the Browns too but they sucked enough for the Hawks to overcome it. I don't know how the team rights that ship as it has been fumbles, interceptions, and special teams, but they've got to shore that up somehow.

I hate the kicker situation. Had a kicker, cut him, then brought him back on a much higher contract and he sucks. Kicker seems to be the biggest position Pete just can't get right.

Good to hear about Blair. These rookies need to start getting more reps or they'll never get ready.
 
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Fade

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HawkGA":1xonslfk said:
Didn't get to see the game and only loosely followed it online. I've heard people complain about the defense, but when I see the 14 points given up directly by the offense, it's hard to blame the defense for much. That has happened just way too often this season. Too many non-defensive points given up. No team is good enough to withstand that on a regular basis. Happened with the Saints and now the Ravens. Happened with the Browns too but they sucked enough for the Hawks to overcome it. I don't know how the team rights that ship as it has been fumbles, interceptions, and special teams, but they've got to shore that up somehow.

I hate the kicker situation. Had a kicker, cut him, then brought him back on a much higher contract and he sucks. Kicker seems to be the biggest position Pete just can't get right.

Good to hear about Blair. These rookies need to start getting more reps or they'll never get ready.

Yeah, they overall played well on defense, aside from rushing the passer as if he were a pocket guy. They were rushing aggressively up-field and getting behind Lamar, with zero contain.

The offense lost the game. They couldn't beat man coverage, and outside of Lockett, the receiving targets at both TE/WR looked over matched. They need help at TE, a veteran WR would be nice too, if the price is right.
 

HawkGA

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How much of not being able to beat man coverage is on the WRs versus the schemes and the routes?
 

truehawksfan

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I agree with almost everything. In the secondary, Griffin has really stepped up this year. Flowers looked to have a down year, but today, he played really well. Blair played well too, but one game is a very small sample size, but a great start.

I also agree TE coverage looks weak. I understand our LBs know this system, but they looked slow. Last year, Hill and King played in the KC game and did a great job neutralizing one of the best TEs in the game. I haven’t seen King all year and it’s time to get more DBs on the field. We will get toasted against the Niners TEs if Pete continues to stay our Wright and Kendricks.
 

olyfan63

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Fade":gqkzx31l said:
The offense lost the game. They couldn't beat man coverage, and outside of Lockett, the receiving targets at both TE/WR looked over matched. They need help at TE, a veteran WR would be nice too, if the price is right.
Totally how I felt too, especially in the 2nd half, where the Ravens stuffed our passing game, in addition to stuffing our running game. I thought Hollister was supposed to be a good receiving tight end, but mostly it just showed how much we miss Dissley. Left me baffled that Schottenheimer seemed to have no answers.

HawkGA":gqkzx31l said:
I hate the kicker situation. Had a kicker, cut him, then brought him back on a much higher contract and he sucks. Kicker seems to be the biggest position Pete just can't get right.
Myers is fine. He's a good reliable kicker. A 53 yarder in the rain is no gimme. That one's on Pete for asking Myers to make that one.
 

nanomoz

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^Seriously.^

People nowadays expect 50-plus-yard field goals to be gimmes, let alone in terrible weather like today.

Get a grip. 2/3 of his misses are 55 and 53 yards.
 

mistaowen

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I think the offensive side of the ball shoulders much of the blame, especially Schotty's inability to adjust in the second half. Ravens went full man press coverage with extra rushers and he flat out refused to change the gameplan which is something he has been criticized to do throughout his career. Really the first game he's done a poor job IMO. Plus the 14 free points given up isn't something this current defensive group can handle.

That said, defense couldn't get off the field in the second half and equally helped ice the game. DL cannot generate pressure and the LB's are playing bad football. I don't know if it's the scheme change to 2 deep safeties or age or what, but KJ/Kendricks look dreadful at times and Bobby isn't playing like the best LB in the league as he typically does. I think they can do much better at defensive coordinator, I just doubt Pete will move on from him. Maybe if Quinn gets the boot he can come back as DL coach/assistant HC or something, because LB and DL play has gotten much worse.

The secondary outside of TT had probably their best game of the year and Blair should have a starting job here on out. I still think they need another safety and CB, whether through the draft, FA, or trade. TT isn't the answer, don't think Hill is, McDougald has been very meh, Flowers outside of yesterday has struggled. Teams seem to be avoiding Shaq's side of the field, so big kudos to him on a bounce back year.

Carson is a workhorse, Penny saw the field twice. Looks like Prosise is actually ahead on the depth chart at this point. I wonder if he will be a part of any trade deadline moves to get TE or DL help.
 
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