Ringer article on Seahawks Offense

scutterhawk

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Bud, you do understand that you literally take away credit from Pete for building the team that won us anything, and also blame him for everything wrong with them now. As if he was just along for the ride and backed into superbowls and an approach that has literally been probably the most replicated in the league over the last 10 years.

The dude has his flaws. He hasn't been perfect. But he's one he'll of a football coach and leader of men.

The hate is just... hate.
THIS^^^^
Pete, the LOB, & The Beast ALL aided in getting Russ a Super Bowl Ring, not the other way around I mean 43 - 8 isn't proof of an other worldly Defense???
BUUUUT Pete gets discredited by the Wilson FIRST Fans for Russ' shortcomings & mess-ups?....I mean go figure, eh?
 

keasley45

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You still don't get it lol, when John63 said facts, he was referring what he said. Everything out of his mouth were facts in his opinion.
I'm a glutton for punishment. What is it they say about the definition of insanity?
 

toffee

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I'm a glutton for punishment. What is it they say about the definition of insanity?
I always joke that John63's an intern from team Russ, his "resume" contradicted against his actions. His resume said that he played ball (high school? college? pro?), coached (high school, college, pro?), and refereed, FOR DECADES. His action on dot net was more like a 18 year old intern.

I love John to death, he is the type of guy every village square needs one.
 

keasley45

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You still don't get it lol, when John63 said facts, he was referring what he said. Everything out of his mouth were facts in his opinion.
I'm a glutton for punishment. What is it they say about the definition of insanity?
“Never even get to another Super Bowl without a top 5 run game and a top 5 defense.”

Isn’t that more so a huge damning piece of evidence against John and PC more so than Russell? When has a QB ever won a super bowl by themselves? Haven’t the last I don’t know know, 30 SB winning Super Bowl QBs been aided by some other aspect of their team that was excellent?

Forget even the “top 5” qualifier of your statement. Did you expect Wilson to drag us ball and chain with the absolute dredge heap of a roster we’ve had for years? When PC “god of defense” was giving up record yardage and on pace to have the worst defense EVER two years in a row to start the season, you were honestly thinking “hey, RW better cut this sh*T out, I ain’t having this no more Super Bowl crap?”

What exactly are your qualifiers he is supposed to hit? At the very very least. He has never. And I mean never. Been on pace to be the worst QB EVER in a season. EVER.

It is amazing to me how a fan base can have such excitement that we actually had a good draft FINALLY in like 7 years, witness the absolute devoid of winning possibility as soon as RW walked out the door, and still reach deep down into the depths of idiocracy to blame RW cuz he was a bit of a weirdo.

Give any actually good, modern coach RW over the past 5 years, and I guarantee you they have more success with him then PC got out of him.
Dude, dredge heap of a roster??

An indictment of PC and JS that their qb needs a top running game and defense to succeed? Maybe in that they should never have sold the farm to keep a player with that kind of limitation, sure.

One, there may be a reason we don't have a ton of cash to throw around guven the amount of cash being paid to a qb who's game is freelancing and can't be traditionally scripted to.

But dredge heap of a roster? We've had a top 5 to 10 rushing attack by YPC for the majority of the last 6 years.

We sent the 2nd most number of players to the prowbowl in 2020.

Russ has had a solid run game that he'd refused to utilize because it takes away from his spotlight, and talent on offense between DK, Tyler and the rest that should have netted far more than it did. Don't agree? Ask DK why it was he was so frustrated last year.

I swear I wish All22 was free for everyone. It's not a 'take' that Russ was limited, pretty significantly in his ability to run a traditional, call it, read it, execute it offense. It's not him. The evidence (his own play) and the fact that he's churned through 3 coordinators and done the exact same thing is evidence that he plays how he plays and that that play is, for better or worse, what has netted us the results we've had on offense.

Could the defense have been better sure. Was it Pete running the defense? No. KN was the guy with his finger at the controls. Shoukd Pete have let him go before? Absolutley. Is that his bad? Absolutkey. In the same way he shouldn't have tolerated the oft poor execution at qb.

It's AMAZING to me that folks can judge Russ play... literally this whole offense, based on how a play ended, because Russ fabricated something when it Looked like there was nothing there. It's true, you can watch a play and if it ends in a spectacular TD, celebrate and judge it a success. But if you look deeper and assess a given play or player on the step by step process theyhave to go through to achieve the designed success, I'd bet my life, Russ wouldn't look nearly as good.

Hes a player who has failed to make a presnap adjustment , a presnap read, at times, make the right throw or post snap adjustment to hit the designed open wr. ... and still managed to make the play work.

Step by step, he could grade F's consistently and still net a positive based on his talent. But that's not sustainable now and never has been. And the dredge of an offense and it performance was as much a result of that fact as anything else. As soon as there wasn't the eraser of a RB to mask the deficiencies and the defense couldn't repeatedly hand over a short field and multiple opportunities, the offense was toast.
 

John63

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Bud, you do understand that you literally take away credit from Pete for building the team that won us anything, and also blame him for everything wrong with them now. As if he was just along for the ride and backed into superbowls and an approach that has literally been probably the most replicated in the league over the last 10 years.

The dude has his flaws. He hasn't been perfect. But he's one he'll of a football coach and leader of men.

The hate is just... hate.
No I am. Ot as I said until the Hawks. And that statement was made in reply to someone usi g PC history as a HC prior to the Hawks as some sort of proof of his ability to build and nature a team. Something he had not done in the NFL till the hawks.
 

John63

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I'm a glutton for punishment. What is it they say about the definition of insanity?

Dude, dredge heap of a roster??

An indictment of PC and JS that their qb needs a top running game and defense to succeed? Maybe in that they should never have sold the farm to keep a player with that kind of limitation, sure.

One, there may be a reason we don't have a ton of cash to throw around guven the amount of cash being paid to a qb who's game is freelancing and can't be traditionally scripted to.

But dredge heap of a roster? We've had a top 5 to 10 rushing attack by YPC for the majority of the last 6 years.

We sent the 2nd most number of players to the prowbowl in 2020.

Russ has had a solid run game that he'd refused to utilize because it takes away from his spotlight, and talent on offense between DK, Tyler and the rest that should have netted far more than it did. Don't agree? Ask DK why it was he was so frustrated last year.

I swear I wish All22 was free for everyone. It's not a 'take' that Russ was limited, pretty significantly in his ability to run a traditional, call it, read it, execute it offense. It's not him. The evidence (his own play) and the fact that he's churned through 3 coordinators and done the exact same thing is evidence that he plays how he plays and that that play is, for better or worse, what has netted us the results we've had on offense.

Could the defense have been better sure. Was it Pete running the defense? No. KN was the guy with his finger at the controls. Shoukd Pete have let him go before? Absolutley. Is that his bad? Absolutkey. In the same way he shouldn't have tolerated the oft poor execution at qb.

It's AMAZING to me that folks can judge Russ play... literally this whole offense, based on how a play ended, because Russ fabricated something when it Looked like there was nothing there. It's true, you can watch a play and if it ends in a spectacular TD, celebrate and judge it a success. But if you look deeper and assess a given play or player on the step by step process theyhave to go through to achieve the designed success, I'd bet my life, Russ wouldn't look nearly as good.

Hes a player who has failed to make a presnap adjustment , a presnap read, at times, make the right throw or post snap adjustment to hit the designed open wr. ... and still managed to make the play work.

Step by step, he could grade F's consistently and still net a positive based on his talent. But that's not sustainable now and never has been. And the dredge of an offense and it performance was as much a result of that fact as anything else. As soon as there wasn't the eraser of a RB to mask the deficiencies and the defense couldn't repeatedly hand over a short field and multiple opportunities, the offense was toast.
Wow the farce is strong with this post. Enough manure for all the farms in the US.
 

Own The West

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Fair enough I get were your coming from. Here is what I will tell you. I have played, coached and reffed for over 50 years. Yes I'm old. Lol
OMG. John is Mike Holmgren!

No need to be bitter about that whole, “we want the ball and we’re gonna score” thing. Pete’s QB ended our SB dreams on an ill-advised throw too…
 

scutterhawk

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He throws everything NEGATIVE & SNIDE that he can conjure up at Pete Carroll, because that's all he's got.
FOURTYTHREE TO EIGHT against Peyton Manning no less, he had been Carving up Defenses ALL SEASON LONG, until he went up against PETE'S BUZZSAW DEFENSE John, That's what happens when you have the time to STRIP DOWN & TOTALLY REBUILD a team, like he >DID NOT GET TO DO< with the Patriots, nor the Jets....Just a little perspective, eh?
Pete Carroll is RESPONSIBLE & AT FAULT for being Pete Carroll HEAD COACH.
Russell Wilson is RESPONSIBLE & AT FAULT for being Russell Wilson, QUARTERBACK.
>NEITHER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HOLDING THE OTHER BACK<- There would have been NOTHING TO BE GAINED for EITHER to have done so, and those are the FACTS.
 
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BASF

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I'm totally on board with that name, even though I found the whole "unlimited" thing silly in the past.
Now it makes perfect sense to me.
Unlimited three-and-outs. Unlimited wide-open receivers at short but potentially chain-moving distances ignored.
It would be very interesting for someone who has time to go back and check NC State and Wisconsin's three and out stats from when Wilson played there. It may be that he has always had the three and out problem.
 

keasley45

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Not a statistical confirmation, but I saw this article a while ago and the quote about Wilson being dishonest and painting pictures that aren't true sounds familiar..

 

toffee

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Not a statistical confirmation, but I saw this article a while ago and the quote about Wilson being dishonest and painting pictures that aren't true sounds familiar..

By now, we all have to agknowledge that Wilson was not well loved in locker rooms by teammates that have played with him for awhile.
 

sc85sis

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That is grossly oversimplified.

PC in both instances took over aging and flawed rosters with QBs heading in the wrong direction. PC only had one season with the Jets so it is hard for a coach to put their stamp on a team with one season. The season after PC left the Jets went 3-13 and then 1-15 with R. Kotite.

Boomer Esiason during PC lone season put up 17 TDs and 13 Ints which is very average. But then the season after PC, Boomer Esiason followed with another average performance of 16 TDs and 15 Ints. Obviously Boomer throwing 2 more Ints did not make the Jets win three less games a year later. The difference? The 1995 Jets put up 1279 yards on the ground while with PC in 1994 put up 1566 yards on the ground as a team. The year before PC arrived the Jets went 8-8 as you pointed out with another average performance by Boomer Esiason (16 TDs and 11 Ints). But that 1993 Jets squad put up 1880 yards on the ground.

That is how the Jets were able to go 8-8 with average play at QB before PC arrived. I have no doubt in my mind this is what PC would have continued if he had been given more time and to rebalance the roster to enhance a running attack.

Also, with NE Kraft admits a lot of what led to PC's firing was out of his control. Normally owners are not that candid and will shoulder the blame on the HC when things do not go right. But in PC case Kraft was sticking up for him even though he fired him!

Interesting enough PC had a winning record in all three seasons with NE when his team had at least 1400 yards total on the ground. It could be argued the lone season with the Jets was a fluke. PCs final season with NE you had Drew Bledsoe imploding and the team was missing star Pro Bowl RB Robert Edwards.

Edwards was drafted in the 1st round, 18th overall in 1998 and was sensational as a rookie. Edwards had big shoes to fill because he was replacing the legendary Curtis Martin.

BB first season after PC the Patriots went 5-11. But BB was given enough time by Kraft and turned it around in 2001 where they went 11-5 and won the SB. Patriots started the 2001 season 0-2 with Bledsoe, and then finished the year 11-5 with a SB and Brady at QB.

Brady threw 18 TDs and 11 Ints but what was interesting was the 2001 Patriots had 1793 yards on the ground as a team that year.

I know people groan when Marty ball, PC ball, or BB play vanilla ground and pound run games on offense. But when you have uncertainty at the QB position, or average QB play, it simply works!!!! It keeps your team from sinking and gives you a fighting chance to win games.
Pete also was adamantly opposed to the Patriots trading (future Hall of Fame) RB Curtis Martin to the Jets, but he had no say over personnel. He also was hired and told that they wanted him to install the 49er way of doing things, but then got a ton of pushback when he tried to actually do that.
 

keasley45

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Pete also was adamantly opposed to the Patriots trading (future Hall of Fame) RB Curtis Martin to the Jets, but he had no say over personnel. He also was hired and told that they wanted him to install the 49er way of doing things, but then got a ton of pushback when he tried to actually do that.
Stop speaking truth. Pete is terrible. Always has been. His rahrah approach has no place in the NFL. His conservative approach is outdated. He can't draft to save his life, he lies constantly, and the only reason he even has a job is because he rode the coattails of russel wilson for 10 years, content with just contending, while ruining the future HOF qb forever.

Sarcasm ... Off
 

toffee

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Stop speaking truth. Pete is terrible. Always has been. His rahrah approach has no place in the NFL. His conservative approach is outdated. He can't draft to save his life, he lies constantly, and the only reason he even has a job is because he rode the coattails of russel wilson for 10 years, content with just contending, while ruining the future HOF qb forever.

Sarcasm ... Off
you sir could be the second coming of John63, but you need to work on adding just a bit of hand picked 'facts'.
 

toffee

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Predictable reply that says absolutely nothing about the specific points made in the post, because you know you can't really combat it with box score stats.
..... and that came from a gentleman with decades of playing, coaching and refereeing our favorite game of football. He has reduced to throwing farce and manure, was he totally frustrated, or just too hard to right the unrightable 'wrongs'?
 
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