Ringer article on Seahawks Offense

[John63]

What do you mean not really?

The Broncos are what gamblers call "pot committed," just like we were in handing Adams the largest safety contract in the league.

So it really doesn't matter how well Russ does in 2022, the Broncos made their bed in trading away a fortune to get him. They'll now have to fork over 250M fully guaranteed, maybe even more if more QB's sign their extensions between now and next off season.

again conjecture but we will see.

 

[keasley45]

Not really a TOp Qb can have a much bigger impact on a team than a top Safety. As to the rest conjecture but we will see.

Well then you just shot down your starboy, because C Chancellor and or ET3 had a bigger impact in getting us to and winning a superbowl in 2013 than Mr Wilson.

 

[toffee]

Well then you just shot down your starboy, because C Chancellor and or ET3 had a bigger impact in getting us to and winning a superbowl in 2013 than Mr Wilson.

You sir got me thinking, could we have won with a Stafford type in 2013 and 3
2014? Or, could Russell Wilson won 2013 and 2014 without LOB and Marshawn?

 

[John63]

Well then you just shot down your starboy, because C Chancellor and or ET3 had a bigger impact in getting us to and winning a superbowl in 2013 than Mr Wilson.

opinions vary you have yours. I am sure those 4 came winning drives Wilson had that year did not matter at all, did they. Nor the 1 in the playoffs either.

 

[keasley45]

We would absolutley have won with Stafford in 2013 and likely 2014.

No Marshawn and even one of Thomas, Chancellor or Sherman and we don't win our championship.

 

[keasley45]

opinions vary you have yours. I am sure those 4 came winning drives Wilson had that year did not matter at all, did they. Nor the 1 in the playoffs either.

If we can convert 3rd downs better than 15th in the nfl through the air, we don't need the comebacks. If we could sustain drives without RW scrambling and playing sandlot and instead methodically moving the offense, we probably don't need hero ball.

And Stafford isn't exactly a wilting flower under pressure

 

[John63]

If we can convert 3rd downs better than 15th in the nfl through the air, we don't need the comebacks. If we could sustain drives without RW scrambling and playing sandlot and instead methodically moving the offense, we probably don't need hero ball.

And Stafford isn't exactly a wilting flower under pressure

Hmm, we were 15th back in 2013? If we can not be top 10 in 3rd and long maybe we would convert more. FYI we were 18th in 2013 so sorry

We can go round and round. but in the end, I am not changing my opinion.

By the way just to help you 2011 we were 24th in 3rd that was before Wilson
2010 22nd also before Wilson


Hmm interesting so in PCs tenure in Seattle before Wilson we were bottom 3rd in 3rd down conversion.

Lets see his HC career before Seattle

jets 27th
Ne 18th
Ne 22nd
NE 24th

Hmm seems like where ever PC goes 3rd down conversions suck

 

[keasley45]

Hmm, we were 15th back in 2013? If we can not be top 10 in 3rd and long maybe we would convert more. FYI we were 18th in 2013 so sorry

We can go round and round. but in the end, I am not changing my opinion.

By the way just to help you 2011 we were 24th in 3rd that was before Wilson
2010 22nd also before Wilson


Hmm interesting so in PCs tenure in Seattle before Wilson we were bottom 3rd in 3rd down conversion.

Lets see his HC career before Seattle

jets 27th
Ne 18th
Ne 22nd
NE 24th

Hmm seems like where ever PC goes 3rd down conversions suck

Was never expecting yiu to change your opinion. And, last I checked, 18th is not better than 15th....

PC isn't the one not finding or throwing to the open guy on 3rd down... open players that 3 cooirdinators have schemed for Russ, with the same results. He's just the one complaining about his qb leaving drives on the field.

And I think it's been pretty clearly gone over that PC was never given the control of a team the way he was in Seattle. . .

 

[JPatera76]

Hmm, we were 15th back in 2013? If we can not be top 10 in 3rd and long maybe we would convert more. FYI we were 18th in 2013 so sorry

We can go round and round. but in the end, I am not changing my opinion.

By the way just to help you 2011 we were 24th in 3rd that was before Wilson
2010 22nd also before Wilson


Hmm interesting so in PCs tenure in Seattle before Wilson we were bottom 3rd in 3rd down conversion.

Lets see his HC career before Seattle

jets 27th
Ne 18th
Ne 22nd
NE 24th

Hmm seems like where ever PC goes 3rd down conversions suck

we get it, you hate PC .. however your arguments are only tailored to your liking. We dont have Marshawn Lynch WITHOUT PC we dont have the LOB without PC we dont have RW without PC and we dont have out ONLY Lombardi without PC....Oh and WE probably get a 2nd if Russell would've handed it off.

 

[keasley45]

Hmm, we were 15th back in 2013? If we can not be top 10 in 3rd and long maybe we would convert more. FYI we were 18th in 2013 so sorry

We can go round and round. but in the end, I am not changing my opinion.

By the way just to help you 2011 we were 24th in 3rd that was before Wilson
2010 22nd also before Wilson


Hmm interesting so in PCs tenure in Seattle before Wilson we were bottom 3rd in 3rd down conversion.

Lets see his HC career before Seattle

jets 27th
Ne 18th
Ne 22nd
NE 24th

Hmm seems like where ever PC goes 3rd down conversions suck

And in 2010, Matt Hasselbeck was the top rated qb in the nfl on 3rd down, so what exactly do you mean??

Where NFC West teams rank: Week 3

A few things stand out when looking at where NFC West teams rank among their NFL peers in nine statistical categories I reference each week: Seattle ranks second in third-down conversion rate on offense.

www.espn.com

AND somebody on this board posted Matt's stats with Pete vs Wilson's and they were better on 3rd down passing.

 

[John63]

And in 2010, Matt Hasselbeck was the top rated qb in the nfl on 3rd down, so what exactly do you mean??

Where NFC West teams rank: Week 3

A few things stand out when looking at where NFC West teams rank among their NFL peers in nine statistical categories I reference each week: Seattle ranks second in third-down conversion rate on offense.

www.espn.com

AND somebody on this board posted Matt's stats with Pete vs Wilson's and they were better on 3rd down passing.

Well, you use your info from that site I will use the one I got from the site i used Oh, and great less than 1 month in he was top the question is what was he at the end.

In the end, I know your stance

Wilson sucks, is the devil, and was everything wrong with the Hawks, PC is god. got it.

Nothing will ever change your stance and frankly, it is boring. we will find out soon enough.

 

[John63]

we get it, you hate PC .. however your arguments are only tailored to your liking. We dont have Marshawn Lynch WITHOUT PC we dont have the LOB without PC we dont have RW without PC and we dont have out ONLY Lombardi without PC....Oh and WE probably get a 2nd if Russell would've handed it off.

OKay, Again I don't hate anyone. to hate means you would be fine if they died. I don't believe PC is as good as some here think. You are right we probably do get a 2nd if PC and his OC calls a run. We also would not have needed that play if PCs supposed great defense that took up over 70% of the cap could hold a 2-score lead with 9 minutes. We also might have a 3rd if PCs great defense could hold a lead with 20 seconds to go in 2012.

 

[keasley45]

Well, you use your info from that site I will use the one I got from the site i used Oh, and great less than 1 month in he was top the question is what was he at the end.

In the end, I know your stance

Wilson sucks, is the devil, and was everything wrong with the Hawks, PC is god. got it.

Nothing will ever change your stance and frankly, it is boring. we will find out soon enough.

No. Wilson was great. He was probably the most talented qb we've ever had. Check that, he is. He did great things here. And a lot of those things he did allowed him to overcome the things he couldn't.

He was great AND he was flawed in ways that traditional 'elite' franchise qbs like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc are not. Ways that made him different, AND limited his potential and that of the team.

Notice the use of AND...

Great AND Flawed. The best we've ever had, AND someone who it was time to move on from.

Wilson is Wilson because it's who he is and wants to be. Pete didn't shape him for better or worse. He tried to work with him. Wilson's limitations are his own. AND for a long time he was able to overcome them.

 

[John63]

No. Wilson was great. He was probably the most talented qb we've ever had. Check that, he is. He did great things here. And a lot of those things he did allowed him to overcome the things he couldn't.

He was great AND he was flawed in ways that traditional 'elite' franchise qbs like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc are not. Ways that made him different, AND limited his potential and that of the team.

Notice the use of AND...

Great AND Flawed. The best we've ever had, AND someone who it was time to move on from.

Wilson is Wilson because it's who he is and wants to be. Pete didn't shape him for better or worse. He tried to work with him. Wilson's limitations are his own. AND for a long time he was able to overcome them.

and again opinions vary like I said this is boring neither of us is changing and he is gone. so let's just move on.

 

[Rainger]

You sir got me thinking, could we have won with a Stafford type in 2013 and 3
2014? Or, could Russell Wilson won 2013 and 2014 without LOB and Marshawn?

NEVER!!!!!!!! RW got way more out of the D and the running game than the team got out of RW. He was not a brady and it was the rest of the team that put him in position to pull the rabbit out of the hat. Granted he did it but he did it with OTHERS on the team not just him.

Where did the team go after the D was not dominant and the running game dried up??? Why did it still not perform the same if it was all RW doing it all previously?

PS: I had a full blown man crush on RW from the day he was drafted. I made excuses for all his shortcomings and mistakes throughout the years. It was never his fault until the last couple of years when I started to wake up, and realized he was a big part of the problem not the solution.

 

[toffee]

No. Wilson was great. He was probably the most talented qb we've ever had. Check that, he is. He did great things here. And a lot of those things he did allowed him to overcome the things he couldn't.

He was great AND he was flawed in ways that traditional 'elite' franchise qbs like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc are not. Ways that made him different, AND limited his potential and that of the team.

Notice the use of AND...

Great AND Flawed. The best we've ever had, AND someone who it was time to move on from.

Wilson is Wilson because it's who he is and wants to be. Pete didn't shape him for better or worse. He tried to work with him. Wilson's limitations are his own. AND for a long time he was able to overcome them.

To my untrained eyes, there are two Russell Wilson every time he played:

1. PussyWilson
   PussyWilson couldn't or wouldn't do the stuff that ALL HOF first team all pro QB do all game long, or what Kurt called the layups, ie take what other team gives.
2. DangeRuss
   The Russell Wilson that do out of this world stuff that MOST HOF first team all pro QB needn't or couldn't do.

For years, the DangeRuss always bailed out PussyWilson, and as 12s, we were thrilled and entertained. As years go by, a few things changed:

1. Russ refused to improve and minimize PussyWilson.
2. Russ wants to build his brand on DangeRuss ball. aka Let him cook.
3. His PussyWilson stuff made his teammates' life more difficult than necessary
4. His insistence of DangeRuss ball was built on his teammates expenses, their stats, being thrown under the bus by Russ, etc.,

As he gets older, Wilson's dangeRuss ball will keep going south, at some point, dangeRuss could no long cover up PussyWIlson.

I jumped ship last off season and call for trading him, I still think it was the best time.

 

[Rainger]

To my untrained eyes, there are two Russell Wilson every time he played:

1. PussyWilson
   PussyWilson couldn't or wouldn't do the stuff that ALL HOF first team all pro QB do all game long, or what Kurt called the layups, ie take what other team gives.
2. DangeRuss
   The Russell Wilson that do out of this world stuff that MOST HOF first team all pro QB needn't or couldn't do.

For years, the DangeRuss always bailed out PussyWilson, and as 12s, we were thrilled and entertained. As years go by, a few things changed:

1. Russ refused to improve and minimize PussyWilson.
2. Russ wants to build his brand on DangeRuss ball. aka Let him cook.
3. When DangeRuss ball wasn't working, he blamed his OL, his OC.,
4. His PussyWilson stuff made his teammates' life difficult, His insistence of DangeRuss ball was built on his teammates expenses, their stats, being thrown under the bus by Russ, etc.,

As he gets older, Wilson's dangeRuss ball will keep going south, at some point, dangeRuss could no long cover up PussyWIlson.

I jumped ship last off season and call for trading him, I still think it was the best time.

THIS is spot on great analysis.

 

[Own The West]

You sir got me thinking, could we have won with a Stafford type in 2013 and 3
2014? Or, could Russell Wilson won 2013 and 2014 without LOB and Marshawn?

Well, in 2013 the Broncos scored 8 points, while the Seahawks scored off a pick 6 and special teams TD, so no Russell needed at all. And in 2014, we were ahead by 10 in the 3rd and Marshawn was gashing a tired Pats defense on his way to a 200+ yard game and multiple TDs until RW convinced the coaching staff we needed to throw the ball more (why they listened to that stupidity is another story). Of course, throwing stops the clock, 3 and outs give the ball back to Brady, Pats win because of Wilson.

We have plenty of examples from 2015 on what Wilson could do without Lynch and the LOB.

Not knocking Wilson's talent. If he had ever decided to lead the league in first downs, he may have erased Brady in the record books. As is, he'll just be another 'good' QB like Brees, Rivers, Marino, etc. with a ton of stats, but just the one ring when his team carried him.

 

[keasley45]

Your point about not running in 49 is relevant. Although id have to watch the gane again to see if the passing strategy was one that was unnecessarily forced in the 2nd half. BUT... I think we went 3 / 10 on 3rd down with Russ going 1 for 6 on passing opportunities and Lynch getting the other 2 / 4 on runs.

The Russ champions constantly harp on how Brady shredded the LOB, while forgetting that the defense was decimated by injuries in the 2nd half and played well enough to win. Leaving it for Russ to clean up.

And they ignore the fact that has been the case his entire career, that Russ was mediocre for the majority of the game with well below 200 yards passing before the final drive and a well below average 3rd down passing rate. Pick up one of those 3rd downs and the game doesn't need to be a come from behind scenario.

But looking at the highlights, sure, everyone remembers the juggling catch by Kearse, the long plays to Chris Mathews, and the TD to Baldwin - Russ the star. But the the 3-10 on 3rd downs and his failing 3rd down conversion rate through the air (1 for 6 through the air i think)... he is and was both players. Great, and flawed.

It is the paradox of a player that was russell wilson in seattle.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

opinions vary you have yours. I am sure those 4 came winning drives Wilson had that year did not matter at all, did they. Nor the 1 in the playoffs either.

Hard to argue this point when literally the reason we lost SB 49 was because every member of the LOB was injured, and the guy you're defending threw a pick to end the game.