Rewatching SF vs GB

[60niners]

The throw where Boldin broke free down the right sideline was also on a scramble, and was underthrown. Had he hit Boldin in stride it was a TD.

That being said, the throw was right on target and caught for a first down.

 

[Marvin49]

Marvin49 - got a question and hope to get a football answer and not a fan answer - serious question and just interested in your opinion.

First part and not writing this to argue this is my opinion based on numbers from last year and won't change. Kaep was great at running the ball and great at passing the ball. I didn't subscribe to the only looking at his first target and at least if I did after watching the superbowl I thought he was deadly and looked at multiple receivers when needed. BUT I did think and the numbers supported this that when Kaep was scrambling he wasn't very good at throwing. This was unlike RW that doesn't loose much in ratings when throwing outside the pocket.

So not sure how much in the Packers game where Kaep were scrambling and throwing. Did it happen a lot and if so how did he look?

Appreciate your / anyones thought on this

I think he's very good throwing outside the pocket but admittedly his numbers didn't really reflect that last year. I can only go by what I've observed. He was very good at it in college and is particularly accurate when throwing across his body.

As the previous poster mentioned, he only threw a couple times when flushed out. He had a long completion to Boldin down the sideline and he converted a 4th down on another. He also missed a few times as well.

Most of his passes though came from the pocket. That is mostly because the Packers went out of their way to ensure that he stayed there in the hopes that he wouldn't be able to beat them as a pure drop back pocket passer. He did.

 

[Marvin49]

Kaep barely ever had to leave the pocket. Green Bay got crap pressure all game.

...or more to the point, they were trying to contain him to prevent him from running and forced him to throw from the pocket.

They did everything in their power to ensure that he didn't run wild on them to the detriment of their pass D.

 

[pehawk]

You know what, I've been reading this thread and all the other threads, and have arrived to one conclusion; I'm on the wrong side. Mretrade, Marvin49, HarveyMilk'sAZT, Box747 have convinced me...I've seen the light!

Down with the Seahawks! Long live the 49ers!

 

[Marvin49]

You know what, I've been reading this thread and all the other threads, and have arrived to one conclusion; I'm on the wrong side. Mretrade, Marvin49, HarveyMilk'sAZT, Box747 have convinced me...I've seen the light!

Down with the Seahawks! Long live the 49ers!

Ah. Sanity.

 

[Laloosh]

The throw where Boldin broke free down the right sideline was also on a scramble, and was underthrown. Had he hit Boldin in stride it was a TD.

That being said, the throw was right on target and caught for a first down.

That's right, it was an under thrown ball. The other was really nice.

 

[pehawk]

You know what, I've been reading this thread and all the other threads, and have arrived to one conclusion; I'm on the wrong side. Mretrade, Marvin49, HarveyMilk'sAZT, Box747 have convinced me...I've seen the light!

Down with the Seahawks! Long live the 49ers!

Ah. Sanity.

Can you PM me some sort of 49er fan code of conduct? And, a number to a tattoo removal service?

I must admit, its WAAAYY easier being a fan of a team that has Lombardi's. Really, I mean that, it's so easy. It takes very little devotion or emotional investment.

 

[mikeak]

1) thanks marvin, Laloosh, 60niners (dirty name) and Roland - couldn't watch the game so appreciate the input. I am fairly certain that I will catch the next 49ers game

Pehawk - I think you need more tatto's to be a 49er fan not fewer

 

[pehawk]

Remember when HarveyMilksAZT had that full-blown freak out? Loved that dude, always in a bathrobe sipping on broth.

 

[Marvin49]

You know what, I've been reading this thread and all the other threads, and have arrived to one conclusion; I'm on the wrong side. Mretrade, Marvin49, HarveyMilk'sAZT, Box747 have convinced me...I've seen the light!

Down with the Seahawks! Long live the 49ers!

Ah. Sanity.

Can you PM me some sort of 49er fan code of conduct? And, a number to a tattoo removal service?

I must admit, its WAAAYY easier being a fan of a team that has Lombardi's. Really, I mean that, it's so easy. It takes very little devotion or emotional investment.

1) Stay away from Oakland. Sh*t could get you killed.

2) Can't help ya, don't have any.

3) Not really...it doesn't matter how long you are a fan, how much you support the team or how many bad years you sit through...you are still called a bandwagoneer whenever the team gets good again. You constantly have to hear about how your teams championships mean nothing (even when you don't claim they do) from fans of teams who have never won anything and say stuff like "It takes very little devotion or emotional investment".

Glad I could help.

 

[pehawk]

Marvin49's a keeper.

In my self-destructive era, 2010, I attended a game in Oakland. It HAS zero on Buffalo on the "I'm going to get shanked" quotient. It's child's play compared to Buffalo.

 

[Marvin49]

Marvin49's a keeper.

In my self-destructive era, 2010, I attended a game in Oakland. It HAS zero on Buffalo on the "I'm going to get shanked" quotient. It's child's play compared to Buffalo.

 

[HawksFTW]

I've been to Buffalo a number of times, I've found Chicago to be worse in terms of the fearing for my physical safety. Only place I have ever had a police officer join in on the heckling then threatened to arrest my crew of buddies, when we complained about one of my friends having his jersey ripped.

 

[pehawk]

I've been to Buffalo a number of times, I've found Chicago to be worse in terms of the fearing for my physical safety. Only place I have ever had a police officer join in on the heckling then threatened to arrest my crew of buddies, when we complained about one of my friends having his jersey ripped.

Well, you know, it may not have been the jersey.

Just saying.

Jordan said same thing about Chicago, so I believe you.

 

[HawksFTW]

Buffalo is a tough place, so is Philly. There is just something about Chicago, they take their sports very seriously there.

 

[Trenchbroom]

Marvin49's a keeper.

In my self-destructive era, 2010, I attended a game in Oakland. It HAS zero on Buffalo on the "I'm going to get shanked" quotient. It's child's play compared to Buffalo.

But of course. Compare to the Packers--smaller market team. Subtract the friendly midwest people, subtract 85% of the history/reverence/importance to the game, throw it in the middle of nowhere (where it snows even MORE than in WI!) in a town that hasn't grown measurably in any important economic statistic since before you were born, and viola!

The Buffalo Bills

I'm surprised that we don't hear of more violence from that place.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

WHY was Wilson Deadly tho? Yes, he's very good, but my bet is that Carolina paid ALOT of attention to the run game and that is a big reason why it wasn't all that effective. When those LBs are cheating up it creates lanes behind them. Shutting down the run and opening up the pass are linked. They don't exist in a vacuum.

I'm sure they will use 3 WR sets. No doubt. My point tho is that the 49ers will defend the Seahawks differently because the Seahawks have a run threat and Wilson is less likely to carve up a Nickel D the way Rodgers did.

Again...don't take this as an insult to Wilson. Kaep threw for 412 yards but he wasn't doing so against a Nickel defense. He was doing so vs a D focused on the run.

BTW...just out of curiosity, why can we be so sure the 49ers won't get pressure the way Carolina did? That's kinda what they do. The Packers didn't give up many sacks mainly because they got the ball off so quickly.

I'd also like to add that the 49ers secondary isn't a horrific as people think. Are they Seattle? Not close. They are however probably in the upper half of the NFL. They were #1 in pass D last year prior to the injuries to Justin and Aldon Smith. Nnamdi missed a tackle and was beaten for a short TD, but in all he actually didn't play all that badly. He broke up a critical 3rd down pass at the end of the game.

Marvin, I can't make the argument that SF won't get pressure like Carolina did in the passing game which is why I made my point about how long Wilson is holding the ball. Also seemed like he didn't have many options for hot routes. When he did, he rarely hit them; instead he scrambled and looked down field.

I think the big difference might be in the run game. A LOT of the negative (or minimal gain) running plays we had were the result of guards pulling and the Carolina D being fast enough to come across the formation (in the backfield) and catch the RB before he could get into the 2nd level. That is what Pete called out in interviews when he said they'd tried to do too much with the o-line. Carolina had an amazing combination of power and speed up front. Killed our blocking scheme for the game.

Kaep was making a lot of quick, high percentage throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers as well. Wilson likely could have had similar numbers if he didn't hold onto the ball for so long. He simply wasn't throwing to open receivers at times and it resulted in some negative plays. I think Cam Newton actually made more "difficult" throws than Wilson or Kaepernick but most of Kaepernick's completions were literally to wide open receivers. Not a knock on him, just a criticism of the GB defense.

Similarly, GB's receivers were often wide open. If Wilson identifies receivers more quickly and hits those quick routes, I don't see how you guys avoid being chewed up by those 3WR sets you're talking about.

Kaepernick completed 9 passes of 20 yards or more in week 1. Also, this from ESPN:

Colin Kaepernick completed 8-of-15 passes for 212 yards and a touchdown on throws at least 15 yards downfield. His average pass was thrown a career-long 13.7 yards downfield.

If his average pass was less than 2 yards shy of 15+, then it stands to reason that the vast majority of his passes traveled near that far through the air.

In watching the game, I'd say the vast majority of his passes were MEDIUM range ones (10-25 yards down the field) that were executed relatively quickly, not high percentage short throws.

Marvin49 - got a question and hope to get a football answer and not a fan answer - serious question and just interested in your opinion.

First part and not writing this to argue this is my opinion based on numbers from last year and won't change. Kaep was great at running the ball and great at passing the ball. I didn't subscribe to the only looking at his first target and at least if I did after watching the superbowl I thought he was deadly and looked at multiple receivers when needed. BUT I did think and the numbers supported this that when Kaep was scrambling he wasn't very good at throwing. This was unlike RW that doesn't loose much in ratings when throwing outside the pocket.

So not sure how much in the Packers game where Kaep were scrambling and throwing. Did it happen a lot and if so how did he look?

Appreciate your / anyones thought on this

If I may chime in here...

Kaepernick is OUTSTANDING at THROWING on the run. In fact, in my entire life I have never seen anyone who could do it as good as him.


But QUARTERBACKING on the run is an entirely different matter. He has made some poor decisions while moving, and failed to see defenders at times. Remember, there is a difference between being a good passer and being a good quarterback. This also applies when the quarterback is moving. That said, he did seem to be a bit better at it against Green Bay.

The throw where Boldin broke free down the right sideline was also on a scramble, and was underthrown. Had he hit Boldin in stride it was a TD.

That being said, the throw was right on target and caught for a first down.

No, the safety was moving to where he might have been able to make a play on it. Well, that was unlikely, but an extra conservative throw would make sure it didn't happen.

BTW...just out of curiosity, why can we be so sure the 49ers won't get pressure the way Carolina did?

Because the 49ers get pressure against Wilson without getting pressure. :lol:

Somebody for the love of God photoshop troll face onto Wilson.

 

[Laloosh]

Marvin, I can't make the argument that SF won't get pressure like Carolina did in the passing game which is why I made my point about how long Wilson is holding the ball. Also seemed like he didn't have many options for hot routes. When he did, he rarely hit them; instead he scrambled and looked down field.

I think the big difference might be in the run game. A LOT of the negative (or minimal gain) running plays we had were the result of guards pulling and the Carolina D being fast enough to come across the formation (in the backfield) and catch the RB before he could get into the 2nd level. That is what Pete called out in interviews when he said they'd tried to do too much with the o-line. Carolina had an amazing combination of power and speed up front. Killed our blocking scheme for the game.

Kaep was making a lot of quick, high percentage throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers as well. Wilson likely could have had similar numbers if he didn't hold onto the ball for so long. He simply wasn't throwing to open receivers at times and it resulted in some negative plays. I think Cam Newton actually made more "difficult" throws than Wilson or Kaepernick but most of Kaepernick's completions were literally to wide open receivers. Not a knock on him, just a criticism of the GB defense.

Similarly, GB's receivers were often wide open. If Wilson identifies receivers more quickly and hits those quick routes, I don't see how you guys avoid being chewed up by those 3WR sets you're talking about.

Kaepernick completed 9 passes of 20 yards or more in week 1. Also, this from ESPN:

Colin Kaepernick completed 8-of-15 passes for 212 yards and a touchdown on throws at least 15 yards downfield. His average pass was thrown a career-long 13.7 yards downfield.

If his average pass was less than 2 yards shy of 15+, then it stands to reason that the vast majority of his passes traveled near that far through the air.

In watching the game, I'd say the vast majority of his passes were MEDIUM range ones (10-25 yards down the field) that were executed relatively quickly, not high percentage short throws.

I was commenting purely based on what I saw, not what I looked up but okay. I didn't say he was throwing screens all game long.

I only count 7 passes of 20 or more yards in the game (looking at the play log on Game Rewind right now):
Q1 - 1 pass for 20 yards to VD for a TD. Rest were between 6 and 12 yards.
Q2 - 1 pass for 22 yards to Boldin over the middle. Rest were between 7 and 14 yards.
Q3 - 3 passes between 20 and 37 yards. Rest being between 4 and 16 yards.
Q4 - 2 passes between 23 and 46 yards. Rest were of between 4 to 17 yards.

I don't see the other two. In the play log, anything less than 16 yards was labeled as a "short" pass. Example: "pass short right to A. Boldin to BG 21 for 15 yards". Hence, my use of the word "short".

Most of these passes were to wide open receivers (as I said). I literally just watched every passing play of the game in about 10 minutes.

Kaep had two throws all game that I would consider really good or difficult passes. One was into double coverage to Boldin up the right hash (would have been batted easily if GB secondary wasn't clueless but he did thread the needle to hit Boldin), the other was a beautiful pass to VD up the middle that actually had a little arc on it.

Short of screen shots, I'm not sure how else to make my point. Lot of easy throws to wide open receivers. Many of them short to medium I suppose (2 - 12 yards) with, as you pointed out, a hand full of longer passes which brought the average up nicely.

He did make one poor throw to Boldin on the run but it was a catch and it was for good yardage, ultimately resulting in a 2 yard TD pass to Davis. Outside of that and a throw to the right sideline that was low (but could have been thrown there intentionally) was questionable. I didn't see a defender anywhere close to the receiver but he could have been doing it out of habbit.

Saw nothing that made me feel like my description wasn't accurate. Perhaps the short to medium range was balanced but a wide open receiver at 12 or 13 yards isn't much different than a wide open receiver at 7 yards.

Oh, and according to this, his average was 10.6. Not just shy of 15.

http://www.nfl.com/player/colinkaeperni ... 6/gamelogs

 

[rideaducati]

Yes, tackling was an issue on sunday. Really hurt them a few times. They are typically a very sure tackling team so it was a bit surprising. Missed tackle by Bowman on Lacy on a catch and run, missed 3rd down tackle by Eric Reid, BAD missed tackle by Nnamdi and another missed tackle by Cox on the Packers second TD.

Now sure if it was something we'll see all year or just a one time thing. We'll have to see. I tend to think it's just a one time thing because tackling has been their hallmark.

As a previous poster mentioned, the 49ers were in Nickel most of the day. Don't expect the same in Seattle. They did that because they didn't respect GB run game. Lacy had 41 yards running against a Nickel D all game long.

As for those "wide open looks", yes. He did. Kinda what I've been saying all off-season. When you have a run game like the 49ers do, teams sell out to stop it. Thats EXACTLY what happened vs Green Bay. Run blitzes, playing a safety close to the line, plaing CBs close to the line, not allowing passrushers to rush past the QB...they were determioned not to let the 49ers run the ball after allowing them to run for over 300 yards in January.

They challenged him to beat them with his arm. He did.

Different story this week. I highly doubt the Seahawks attack Kaep the way the Packers did and that secondary is far better.

Should be fun.

The packers playing backups in their secondary might be the reason that the niners had so many wide open receivers last week.

 

[look@dafilm]

Marvin, I can't make the argument that SF won't get pressure like Carolina did in the passing game which is why I made my point about how long Wilson is holding the ball. Also seemed like he didn't have many options for hot routes. When he did, he rarely hit them; instead he scrambled and looked down field.

I think the big difference might be in the run game. A LOT of the negative (or minimal gain) running plays we had were the result of guards pulling and the Carolina D being fast enough to come across the formation (in the backfield) and catch the RB before he could get into the 2nd level. That is what Pete called out in interviews when he said they'd tried to do too much with the o-line. Carolina had an amazing combination of power and speed up front. Killed our blocking scheme for the game.

Kaep was making a lot of quick, high percentage throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers as well. Wilson likely could have had similar numbers if he didn't hold onto the ball for so long. He simply wasn't throwing to open receivers at times and it resulted in some negative plays. I think Cam Newton actually made more "difficult" throws than Wilson or Kaepernick but most of Kaepernick's completions were literally to wide open receivers. Not a knock on him, just a criticism of the GB defense.

Similarly, GB's receivers were often wide open. If Wilson identifies receivers more quickly and hits those quick routes, I don't see how you guys avoid being chewed up by those 3WR sets you're talking about.

Kaepernick completed 9 passes of 20 yards or more in week 1. Also, this from ESPN:

Colin Kaepernick completed 8-of-15 passes for 212 yards and a touchdown on throws at least 15 yards downfield. His average pass was thrown a career-long 13.7 yards downfield.

If his average pass was less than 2 yards shy of 15+, then it stands to reason that the vast majority of his passes traveled near that far through the air.

In watching the game, I'd say the vast majority of his passes were MEDIUM range ones (10-25 yards down the field) that were executed relatively quickly, not high percentage short throws.

I was commenting purely based on what I saw, not what I looked up but okay. I didn't say he was throwing screens all game long.

I only count 7 passes of 20 or more yards in the game (looking at the play log on Game Rewind right now):
Q1 - 1 pass for 20 yards to VD for a TD. Rest were between 6 and 12 yards.
Q2 - 1 pass for 22 yards to Boldin over the middle. Rest were between 7 and 14 yards.
Q3 - 3 passes between 20 and 37 yards. Rest being between 4 and 16 yards.
Q4 - 2 passes between 23 and 46 yards. Rest were of between 4 to 17 yards.

I don't see the other two. In the play log, anything less than 16 yards was labeled as a "short" pass. Example: "pass short right to A. Boldin to BG 21 for 15 yards". Hence, my use of the word "short".

Most of these passes were to wide open receivers (as I said). I literally just watched every passing play of the game in about 10 minutes.

Kaep had two throws all game that I would consider really good or difficult passes. One was into double coverage to Boldin up the right hash (would have been batted easily if GB secondary wasn't clueless but he did thread the needle to hit Boldin), the other was a beautiful pass to VD up the middle that actually had a little arc on it.

Short of screen shots, I'm not sure how else to make my point. Lot of easy throws to wide open receivers. Many of them short to medium I suppose (2 - 12 yards) with, as you pointed out, a hand full of longer passes which brought the average up nicely.

He did make one poor throw to Boldin on the run but it was a catch and it was for good yardage, ultimately resulting in a 2 yard TD pass to Davis. Outside of that and a throw to the right sideline that was low (but could have been thrown there intentionally) was questionable. I didn't see a defender anywhere close to the receiver but he could have been doing it out of habbit.

Saw nothing that made me feel like my description wasn't accurate. Perhaps the short to medium range was balanced but a wide open receiver at 12 or 13 yards isn't much different than a wide open receiver at 7 yards.

Oh, and according to this, his average was 10.6. Not just shy of 15.

http://www.nfl.com/player/colinkaeperni ... 6/gamelogs

Good job. that stat shows his average yards per completion, not yards (traveled) per attempt, which is what the ESPN stat supports.