Report: Hawks Players Don't Think RW is Black Enough

[Largent80]

I'm beginning to think the article and subsequent thread is all a set up to entrap and permanently ban me from the site. Do you have ANY idea how many jokes there are in this thread? I'm like Rainman on the porch missing "Whoppner" right now.

Well played mods, well played. And kudos for getting Freeman in on your ruse. But, I will not bite.

BINGO....I wouldn't touch this with a 10' pole!!

I have an 11' pole, want to borrow it?

 

[ivotuk]

I would bet that the "source" is Percy Harvin.

He's just lashing out and looking for the most convenient thing. Russell Wilson has a lot of influence, but because he doesn't act a certain way, or use anything, let alone race for an excuse, then he's "not black enough."

It's childish, and is "clickish" behavour.

 

[hawknation2014]

For the sake of discussion only, because I refuse to dignify this anonymously-sourced Bleacher Report as valid, I believe SonicHawk is correct in categorizing this particular in-group phenomena. It's not racist just because someone uses words like "black" or "white" and thereby recognizes the reality of someone's race. Racism requires the distinguishing of a particular race as inferior or superior to another race or races. What is happening here is more like "groupthink."

Nearly everyone belongs to some grouping of individuals that requires loyalty and solidarity. And nearly all groups use internalized pressure on its members to reach consensus on in-group behavior so that they can conform as a group to that consensus, thus avoiding the possibility of philosophical conflict.

There are a million examples. How do Republicans respond to a fellow Republican who chooses to cooperate with the other side on legislation or otherwise strays from what they believe a conservative political philosophy requires? How do gays respond to a gay man who does not actively support marriage equality? How do Seahawk fans respond to a fellow Seahawks fan who does not believe Pete Carroll is a great coach or Russell Wilson a great QB? How about a member of a study group who misses a session or a member of a church who misses a Sunday? How do we respond to members of our group who we feel have strayed from normative group dynamics?

It's not necessarily "racist" unless the normative behavior being enforced is itself the belief that a particular race is inferior. And even then it is the belief itself that is racist, not necessarily the groupthink ostracism. The KKK is racist because they believe black people are inferior-- not because they kicked out a white member who does not think they should burn crosses on someone's lawn.

Believing that Russell Wilson is not "black enough" because he does not believe whites, Latinos, or Asians are inferior would be an example of the use of groupthink to enforce racist beliefs. However, I don't think that is what is happening most of the time when someone is identified as not being "black enough." We are talking about self-identity, and they are not identifying themselves as inferior, so it's not inherently racist. Whether it is racist would depend on what particular normative behavior is being enforced.

 

[themunn]

He's being discriminated against based on his race. How is this not the definition of racism?

Because it's not.

.

How is saying "you are black therefor you should act a certain way" not racist? That seems like the epitome of racism.

Because racism implies superiority or inferiority. It's like if you went to the store and ordered blue paint and when you got home and began painting and it turned out red. It's not that you don't like red or you think red is inferior, it's just that you expected it to be blue.

It's not racism.

I think white people and black people should sit at the front and the back of the bus respectively.
Not because I think the front or the back is better, but just so that the two don't mix. You can swap it round if you like and have black people sit at the front and white at the back. All that is important is that neither race interacts with the other - not because either race is better, I just think that the difference in culture should be preserved, and by keeping white and black people separate, there is no way that black people couldn't accidentally start picking up white mannerisms and vice versa.

In fact, to ensure that cultural divide stays that way, we should have separate schools, restaurants and bars for black and white people so that they don't mix. Black people should stay black and white people should stay white.

 

[themunn]

If a black man says that white people 'all like ham sandwiches' is that racism?

Yes

[/quote]If a white person said 'Man, I just don't like any black rappers' is that racist? [/quote]

Yes

If you see an old Crown Victoria driving along the freeway with the spotlight still attached and you see a white man in a suit driving it... you're surprised aren't you?

No, I'm not

That's not racism.

Yes it is.

If a Seahawk player, who grew up in some crap area around all black people who dressed the same, acted a certain way, had similar suspicions of other races, looked at the upper-middle class whites that looked down on him and then as soon as he had some athletic talent suddenly they couldn't get enough of them and you see another man that looks like you seemingly on the other side... you don't think that freaks them out a bit?

It's not racism. It's called being a human.

I don't know what you're even trying to describe here. You're saying a black man judged people by their race then sees someone start "acting like another race" and getting freaked out by it because they don't like that he is "acting white", that's not racism? Do you understand how ludicrous that sounds?


Let me put this in plain English for you: Racism is the act of judging someone based on their skin colour. Positively. Negatively. Neutrally. It doesn't matter. The internet is perfect for this, you don't have any idea what skin colour someone is when they are simply words on a screen. If your opinion of them changes in any way when that information is provided... that's racism.

 

[hawknation2014]

How is saying "you are black therefor you should act a certain way" not racist? That seems like the epitome of racism.

Because racism implies superiority or inferiority. It's like if you went to the store and ordered blue paint and when you got home and began painting and it turned out red. It's not that you don't like red or you think red is inferior, it's just that you expected it to be blue.

It's not racism.

I think white people and black people should sit at the front and the back of the bus respectively.
Not because I think the front or the back is better, but just so that the two don't mix. You can swap it round if you like and have black people sit at the front and white at the back. All that is important is that neither race interacts with the other - not because either race is better, I just think that the difference in culture should be preserved, and by keeping white and black people separate, there is no way that black people couldn't accidentally start picking up white mannerisms and vice versa.

In fact, to ensure that cultural divide stays that way, we should have separate schools, restaurants and bars for black and white people so that they don't mix. Black people should stay black and white people should stay white.

I once knew someone who complained about not being able to use the "black-only water fountains" when he was a kid. He thought that was just as racist against him as the "white-only water fountains." The problem with this idea is the reality of who actually made the rules and what their intent was in doing so. What was racist about segregation was the hidden motivation of maintaining white hegemony at the expense of the black minority they considered to be inferior. This is why separate but equal was inherently unequal-- because of the deleterious effect it had on black people.

 

[kidhawk]

I understand that racism is a very divisive topic, but let's keep this thread on topic with the issue of Russell and his teammates. We have other forums for politically charged topics. Thanks

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

20 years from now when Wilson inherits Paul Allen's shares of the Seahawks franchise, we'll know what all the fuss is about.

Haters are gonna hate, no one likes the teacher's petor the guy getting all the attention from the owner. It is what it is.

Its not Russell's fault that he lives his life in a certain way that can be called "class".

Seahawks have a young team and I don't think it necessarily has to do with "being black enough", I think it has to with Russell Wilson acting like he's 35 rather than 25.

No one likes a square especially a young square. It is what it is.

 

[SonicHawk]

themunn, I'm just going to come out and say it:

You have no idea what you're talking about and I'm done with this thread. Your replies may be sent to me through a PM and I will keep it civil there as well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Athletes do have an "us vs. them" attitude towards the GM's and owners, especially when it comes to contracts and seeing their friends get traded or cut.

So this isn't surprising if some of the Hawks players think Russell is kinda a brown noser and spends too much time in "special" meetings with Pete, John and the other coach's when the rest of the team is just suppose to do what they're told on the field and in practice.

So not sure this is a Russell's not black enough issue, as much as a "Russell get's to spend time with the FO and coaches discussing the franchise as a whole (players, schemes, changes, etc), and the other players don't."

Which is probably pretty typical for most of the other top QB's. My guess is guys like Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers also are included in some of the franchise decision making processes.

 

[Steve2222]

:141847_bnono:

If this is true, they're racist. Ship any players with this attitude off to New York with Percy. I bet he's plenty "black enough."

This isn't racism, this is a serious issue within the black community, but it's not racism. You'll be shipping half the team off to New York if you thought this way.

It's commonly referred to as "trying to keep the man down."

It's terrible logic. A black dude who is successful, well dressed, well spoken, and charitable is not being a brother? Come on now.

the funny thing is there's a lot of guys who fit the same criteria as Russell on this team, especially on offense.

 

[LawlessHawk]

I'm beginning to think the article and subsequent thread is all a set up to entrap and permanently ban me from the site. Do you have ANY idea how many jokes there are in this thread? I'm like Rainman on the porch missing "Whoppner" right now.

Well played mods, well played. And kudos for getting Freeman in on your ruse. But, I will not bite.

Be strong.

 

[hawknation2014]

:141847_bnono:

If this is true, they're racist. Ship any players with this attitude off to New York with Percy. I bet he's plenty "black enough."

This isn't racism, this is a serious issue within the black community, but it's not racism. You'll be shipping half the team off to New York if you thought this way.

It's commonly referred to as "trying to keep the man down."

It's terrible logic. A black dude who is successful, well dressed, well spoken, and charitable is not being a brother? Come on now.

the funny thing is there's a lot of guys who fit the same criteria as Russell on this team, especially on offense.

A lot of the players on the team share those characteristics. How do you know those are the characteristics that are being singled out as "not black enough"? It could just as easily be that he is perceived as having a closer relationship with the coaches than he does with some of the players. Or that he's been embraced by the public at large and some people are jealous of that attention. It could also be a load of bull crap. Who knows?

Just because it's not racist does not mean it's OK. In fact, SonicHawk kind of implied that he had been victimized by it in his life.

 

[AgentDib]

Could it be true? Sure.

Is it true? Who knows but probably not. This take connects the dots in a way guaranteed to get a lot of attention and Freeman's strong incentive here is to overreact. There are conflicts between players on every team for every imaginable reason, and there are always players who will be unhappy if they think somebody is sucking up to the coaching staff.

 

[FortWorthSeahawk]

What is Josh Brown then? I mean, he was slave to the businessman and all.....

 

[kearly]

In all the race talk has been lost that reportedly in private, Russ doesn't take blame for mistakes. Which seems at odds with the very proper Russ who always seeks to say only positive things about his mates in public.

I wanted to add to this. We know that Wilson challenged Harvin to better himself. I'm pretty sure I've heard stories about Wilson challenging other players on other issues in the past.

To say that Wilson doesn't take blame is something to be careful with. If Wilson doesn't take the blame in a specific instance, I'm inclined to believe that he's being objective and simply wants to fix a problem that truly is owned by someone else. As anyone with a decent football IQ knows, not all mistakes a QB makes are the QBs fault. Wilson doesn't show up to watch film at 5am every day just to let these kinds of things slide.

It might bother some people, but it shouldn't. If they trust Wilson as a guy who just wants to win and fix things, they should trust his intentions, rather than paint him as a guy who can't admit he's wrong.

 

[Barthawk]

The media won't be happy until there is a full fledged brawl in the Seahawks locker room..

 

[Lords of Scythia]

This story is contrived BS. The guy took off-handed comments somebody made and tried to blow it up into this big race issue. You can go into any workplace and find issues between people. If it involves race, then it can seem, to an outsider, like some big issue, but it's not. If this was happening in my workplace I'd laugh it off.

 

[Anonymous]

They'll be feeding off the twists and turns the Percy outing takes for about...

3 or 4 more days, I think.

There'll be another wrinkle tomorrow.

 

[Steve2222]

:141847_bnono:

If this is true, they're racist. Ship any players with this attitude off to New York with Percy. I bet he's plenty "black enough."

This isn't racism, this is a serious issue within the black community, but it's not racism. You'll be shipping half the team off to New York if you thought this way.

It's commonly referred to as "trying to keep the man down."

It's terrible logic. A black dude who is successful, well dressed, well spoken, and charitable is not being a brother? Come on now.

the funny thing is there's a lot of guys who fit the same criteria as Russell on this team, especially on offense.

A lot of the players on the team share those characteristics. How do you know those are the characteristics that are being singled out as "not black enough"? It could just as easily be that he is perceived as having a closer relationship with the coaches than he does with some of the players. Or that he's been embraced by the public at large and some people are jealous of that attention. It could also be a load of bull crap. Who knows?

Just because it's not racist does not mean it's OK. In fact, SonicHawk kind of implied that he had been victimized by it in his life.

So it's not a black thing to have a close relationship with a coach?

When someone refers to a black guy for not being black enough there are distinct characteristics they're getting at.