Red Zone woes

[Hawks46]

A lot has been made of our issues in the red zone. Hawkblogger has a very good article up on his site. Here's a blurb I found interesting:

"The team needs to create what Pete Carroll would call a "factor" in the red zone. Graham was brought here to be that factor. For all his height and athletic ability, I can recall only one fade thrown his way all season, which he was unable to catch. It is on Darrell Bevell to figure out a way to get Graham involved down there, and up to Wilson to give him a chance to make a play without making a foolish or forced throw. It is also a mystery why Chris Matthews has been ignored in the red zone thus far. If teams are taking away Graham, you would expect Matthews to be another great option for a fade at his height"

I mentioned this in another thread, but defenses clamp down and double and triple team Graham in the red zone, and no one else has stepped up. I remember more than 1 pass thrown at Graham, but of the three I remember, they were all very poorly thrown by Russ and badly overthrown. It's looking like a lot more of this is on Wilson this year. He's been so damn good in the Red Zone in his career, 52 TD's to 2 INT's in his first 3 seasons, and 3 TD's to 2 INT's this season. Russ has the yips in the RZ, and it's not about the OL. He was sacked in the RZ more in 2013.

Another thing Hawkblogger said that resonated with me is the Matthews mention. When we got Graham, my initial thought was "Graham on one side and Matthews on the other. Lynch in the backfield with Wilson. No one is stopping us in the red zone". I don't care if Matthews is lazy and doesn't run good routes in practice, he's a stud in the end zone and he's proven it. To not play him, or even just line him up as a decoy (you really have to respect him being on the field down there) is ludicrous and I just don't get the reasoning on this.

It seems so easy, it actually eluded me. Why aren't we trotting both Matthews and Graham out there when we're in goal to go situations ?

 

[Anthony!]

A lot has been made of our issues in the red zone. Hawkblogger has a very good article up on his site. Here's a blurb I found interesting:

"The team needs to create what Pete Carroll would call a "factor" in the red zone. Graham was brought here to be that factor. For all his height and athletic ability, I can recall only one fade thrown his way all season, which he was unable to catch. It is on Darrell Bevell to figure out a way to get Graham involved down there, and up to Wilson to give him a chance to make a play without making a foolish or forced throw. It is also a mystery why Chris Matthews has been ignored in the red zone thus far. If teams are taking away Graham, you would expect Matthews to be another great option for a fade at his height"

I mentioned this in another thread, but defenses clamp down and double and triple team Graham in the red zone, and no one else has stepped up. I remember more than 1 pass thrown at Graham, but of the three I remember, they were all very poorly thrown by Russ and badly overthrown. It's looking like a lot more of this is on Wilson this year. He's been so damn good in the Red Zone in his career, 52 TD's to 2 INT's in his first 3 seasons, and 3 TD's to 2 INT's this season. Russ has the yips in the RZ, and it's not about the OL. He was sacked in the RZ more in 2013.

Another thing Hawkblogger said that resonated with me is the Matthews mention. When we got Graham, my initial thought was "Graham on one side and Matthews on the other. Lynch in the backfield with Wilson. No one is stopping us in the red zone". I don't care if Matthews is lazy and doesn't run good routes in practice, he's a stud in the end zone and he's proven it. To not play him, or even just line him up as a decoy (you really have to respect him being on the field down there) is ludicrous and I just don't get the reasoning on this.

It seems so easy, it actually eluded me. Why aren't we trotting both Matthews and Graham out there when we're in goal to go situations ?

so some of what you say is legit. However on one occasion were Graham was thrown the ball in the redzone and given a chance he failed to box out his defender and the defender knocked the ball from his grasp, he did have it. As to the sacks in the redzone, true he was to date sacked more in 2013 in the redzone then so far this year, but it is not just about sacks it is hits, hurries, etc. And it is a cumulative thing. I agree Wilson did miss on one jump ball to Graham I recall though. Add into that the always seen penalty on our oline in the redzone, play calling and design and you can see it is a cumulative issue. The online still being the biggest.

 

[Seafan]

Russ needs to step up his game. There won't be a second half run unless RW's play improves.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Jimmy will get his share of red zone targets, but not buying what Hawkblogger suggests about trying to force things to him. We have multiple weapons to use. Russ just has to get time to identify them. Also, I think the Beast will get 7 or 8 RZ TDs in the second half.

 

[mikeak]

When I look at our plays in the Redzone - just pure eye test and not full analysis I just see that we don't truly want to score. We don't battle and put it on the line.

We just play to protect the 3pts we have.....

 

[Anthony!]

Russ needs to step up his game. There won't be a second half run unless RW's play improves.

Dude I hate to tell you if the oline pass blocking and the play calling and design do not improve there will be no second half runs. The biggest issue is not Wilson. I mean think about it, Oline worst in NFL in pass blocking, Lynch under 4 ypa, play calling horrible, play design not NFL caliber. Yet Wilson is having a career year for yards, complt% and close to career year in YPA and on pace for over 600 yards rushing as well. While I agree there are some things Wilson could do better, the reality is if the oline, play calling and design does not improve it will not matter. Because at some point Wilson will not get up from the numerous hits he is taking. To tell the truth everyone on the offense needs to step up, but of all the guys on offense the one playing the best is Wilson, and he is playing pretty well all things considered. I mean top 10 in complt %, top 10 in YPA, top 15 in QB rating, all behind the worse pass blocking oline in the NFL.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

 

[chris98251]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

With a somewhat better O Line, even then Bevell's predictable play calling and lack of using our taller receivers and the empty backfield sets were limiting us.

You state it got us to two Super Bowls, your wrong, the defense got us to two Super Bowls, the offense was there because of the defense and Haushka's leg.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

With a somewhat better O Line, even then Bevell's predictable play calling and lack of using our taller receivers and the empty backfield sets were limiting us.

You state it got us to two Super Bowls, your wrong, the defense got us to two Super Bowls, the offense was there because of the defense and Haushka's leg.

I can remember just as many games where the offense made a big play to win games along the journey the last 2 years. To simply state that the offense didn't do anything to contribute is beyond absurd.

 

[mrt144]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

With a somewhat better O Line, even then Bevell's predictable play calling and lack of using our taller receivers and the empty backfield sets were limiting us.

You state it got us to two Super Bowls, your wrong, the defense got us to two Super Bowls, the offense was there because of the defense and Haushka's leg.

I can remember just as many games where the offense made a big play to win games along the journey the last 2 years. To simply state that the offense didn't do anything to contribute is beyond absurd.

Being good enough doesn't translate to being objectively good which is something worth striving for as an NFL team.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

With a somewhat better O Line, even then Bevell's predictable play calling and lack of using our taller receivers and the empty backfield sets were limiting us.

You state it got us to two Super Bowls, your wrong, the defense got us to two Super Bowls, the offense was there because of the defense and Haushka's leg.

I can remember just as many games where the offense made a big play to win games along the journey the last 2 years. To simply state that the offense didn't do anything to contribute is beyond absurd.

Being good enough doesn't translate to being objectively good which is something worth striving for as an NFL team.

If the objective target is the Super Bowl, we've been aces.

 

[mrt144]

If the objective target is the Super Bowl, we've been aces.

Do you ever expect to stop referencing Superbowls as evidence that everything is fine and okay in the future? Like, 2018 rolls around and Bevell is HC and we havent won a SB, are you going to still harken back to the two years we made it?

 

[marko358]

Leave it to this guy to puff his chest regarding the Hawks offense in a thread pointing out that we're 32nd in the red zone.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Leave it to this guy to puff his chest regarding the Hawks offense in a thread pointing out that we're 32nd in the red zone.

Thread win :th2thumbs:

 

[SNDavidson]

Wilson in the RZ since the play in the SB = Maverick after Goose dies

 

[scutterhawk]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

With a somewhat better O Line, even then Bevell's predictable play calling and lack of using our taller receivers and the empty backfield sets were limiting us.

You state it got us to two Super Bowls, your wrong, the defense got us to two Super Bowls, the offense was there because of the defense and Haushka's leg.

It was and has been the "Offense", that drove down field to get within range for "Haushka's Leg".
Also, it's on the "Defense" for letting the 17 point lead in SB 49 slip away, and it's looking like a pattern that's carried over into this Season.
There's plenty of blame/accolades to be shared by all, so NO, it isn't/wasn't just the Defense/Offense that got us all the wins, nor losses.
Mistakes are being made by Coaching, and Players all around.

 

[scutterhawk]

If the objective target is the Super Bowl, we've been aces.

Do you ever expect to stop referencing Superbowls as evidence that everything is fine and okay in the future? Like, 2018 rolls around and Bevell is HC and we havent won a SB, are you going to still harken back to the two years we made it?

Why wouldn't he?, you associate success of that kind with what got them there, and you want him to discredit the Seahawks formula that made them successful?
The only thing that should be in question is, are they going to continue to evolve, and build off their formulas that got them there.
Lot's of moving parts and no short answers.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Get off the play calling and design b.s. It was good enough to reach the past 2 Super Bowls and it's good enough again. It starts and ends with the line, which I think is coming around

With a somewhat better O Line, even then Bevell's predictable play calling and lack of using our taller receivers and the empty backfield sets were limiting us.

You state it got us to two Super Bowls, your wrong, the defense got us to two Super Bowls, the offense was there because of the defense and Haushka's leg.

It was and has been the "Offense", that drove down field to get within range for "Haushka's Leg".
Also, it's on the "Defense" for letting the 17 point lead in SB 49 slip away, and it's looking like a pattern that's carried over into this Season.
There's plenty of blame/accolades to be shared by all, so NO, it isn't/wasn't just the Defense/Offense that got us all the wins, nor losses.
Mistakes are being made by Coaching, and Players all around.

10 point lead in XLIX not 17. (score was 24-14)

 

[TwistedHusky]

This is the worst team in the RZ in the NFL.

That is on the offense.

The defense has had failings and issues with consistency, but ultimately the responsibility for scoring TDs is one that the offense is failing miserably at. And that is something the offense cannot pin on any other part of the team.

If anything, the defense + special teams have gift wrapped several potential TDs to the offense only to watch those turn into FGs, if that.

If you would like to pretend that this is no big deal, have at it, but since the objective of football is to score more points than the opposition and the offense 29th in Pts per game, while scoring only 17.2 pts per game, (some of that off of short fields!) - I would say right now they suck. They could get better, they have some great players but 29th of 32 is firmly in the basement. It isn't even at the top of the stairs hoping to get out.

 

[StoneCold]

If the objective target is the Super Bowl, we've been aces.

Do you ever expect to stop referencing Superbowls as evidence that everything is fine and okay in the future? Like, 2018 rolls around and Bevell is HC and we havent won a SB, are you going to still harken back to the two years we made it?

Why wouldn't he?, you associate success of that kind with what got them there, and you want him to discredit the Seahawks formula that made them successful?
The only thing that should be in question is, are they going to continue to evolve, and build off their formulas that got them there.
Lot's of moving parts and no short answers.

I like this post. As I'm reading through their is some validity to most of the posts. Our scheme on both Defense and Offense has been good enough to get us to 2 super bowls. And while our D has stepped up of late they weren't executing like they had last year in the first few games. Same can be said of our Offense. Being predictable and poorly executing will get you 17.5 points a game. We have to get better at executing. Without that it doesn't matter how inventive our OC gets. But that said it wouldn't hurt to grow a few new wrinkles. In any game if you become too predictable people will figure you out and adjust. Time for us to adjust.

Go Hawks!