Ranking current head coaches

[kearly]

I think Pete's clock management is excellent. How many drives have we had where we scored a TD with less than a minute left in the half? Quite a few. When we do botch it, it's usually because of a player's mistake, such as the sack Wilson took in the Falcons' game. Seattle is also one of the NFL's best teams at running the four minute offense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think Pete's clock management is excellent. How many drives have we had where we scored a TD with less than a minute left in the half? Quite a few. When we do botch it, it's usually because of a player's mistake, such as the sack Wilson took in the Falcons' game. Seattle is also one of the NFL's best teams at running the four minute offense.

What about Pete's not calling/calling the timeout before Bryant's first miss to win the NFC Divisional Playoff game last year? How bout the botched clock management last year at the Rams game right before halftime to allow them to kick a FG? Then another botched decision right after halftime with the boneheaded onside kick..........that was nothing more than Pete's ego being hurt for giving up a TD on the fake FG?

There are more examples, but these are the one's off the top of my head as to why Pete get's criticized for his clock/end of half and game decisions. I love Pete, he's a great coach, but sometimes his ego gets in the way of his decision making when it comes to some of these type of mistakes.

 

[DavidSeven]

What about Pete's not calling/calling the timeout before Bryant's first miss to win the NFC Divisional Playoff game last year?

Isn't this only a bad call because it didn't work? Empirically speaking, "icing" a kicker has actually worked in the past at long distances (40-55 yards). And I don't believe Bryant was even trying on that first attempt, so that defeats the whole "what if" nonsense.

 

[Treefiddy]

What exactly has Jim Harbro done to be elevated to top 5 status?? He took a team full of ten years of top 10 picks and just righted the ship. He didn't build that team, he came in and won with a loaded roster. At this point I'd put Pete above him. At least Pete built his team.

 

[RichNhansom]

I think Kearly summed it up pretty well. If your starting a franchise right now who do you want?

I'm not as critical on in game decissions because I think we have Pete under a microscope. Every coach has their bad decisions from time to time. Hell Belichick went for it on 4th and long in the super bowl when he definitely didn't have to and didn't make it and also went on to lose the super bowl. If you want to talk about ego and stupid moves. With Pete though we are so heavily invested we are probably a little more critical.

In a nut shell if I am starting a new franchise and have my choice of anyone, there is absolutely no question I take Pete.

Not sure how some of you are so high on Jimmy. If you were starting a franchise to build from the ground up, would you choose him over Pete? I certainly wouldn't. The Niners have gotten a little worse each year and are doing so again this year. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe he could build an organization and I really question if he can even maintain one that was handed to him.

 

[amill87]

Not sure how some of you are so high on Jimmy. If you were starting a franchise to build from the ground up, would you choose him over Pete? I certainly wouldn't. The Niners have gotten a little worse each year and are doing so again this year. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe he could build an organization and I really question if he can even maintain one that was handed to him.

Come on let's give credit where's it due. He's coming off the Super Bowl, how is that worse than his first year?

I'm with you in I don't know if he will be able to sustain long time success due to his cuddly personality but you cannot dismiss him as an x and os genius.

 

[Scottemojo]

Why am I so high on Jimmy?

1, and this has to be first, he is an insufferable douche.
2, Jimmy might have inherited a good team, but lets not pretend that all that talent was winning without him.
3, his offensive line schematics are awesome. Seriously.
4, he got production out of Alex Smith, who is BORING.
5, when he and Roman tried to use the new toy too much (kaepernick), they recognized it wasn't working and put the team on their biggest strength, the O-line.
6, Kaepernick is both a supreme talent and deeply flawed, yet he has kept most teams from taking advantage of those flaws.

Insufferable douche or not, he is a damn good coach. I think Pete has constructed the perfect team to counter his, but in his first two years he missed the SB by one play and missed winning the SB by one play. I may hate the guy, but I respect his ability.

 

[rsm650]

What exactly has Jim Harbro done to be elevated to top 5 status?? He took a team full of ten years of top 10 picks and just righted the ship. He didn't build that team, he came in and won with a loaded roster. At this point I'd put Pete above him. At least Pete built his team.

You're right about Pete in that he and JS built it from scratch into contenders. I don't think anyone is left from the 2005 team.

However, I think you should give Harbaugh way more credit than that. Sure they had a lot of first rounders, but they still were part of the NFCWorst. He turned around both Stanford and San Fran from mediocrity to bowl contenders within a very short amount of time. You couldn't just plug in Schiano for SF and expect them to go from 6-10 to the Super Bowl within 1-2 years.

 

[TheRealDTM]

What exactly has Jim Harbro done to be elevated to top 5 status?? He took a team full of ten years of top 10 picks and just righted the ship. He didn't build that team, he came in and won with a loaded roster. At this point I'd put Pete above him. At least Pete built his team.

Question is about coaching not team building.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What about Pete's not calling/calling the timeout before Bryant's first miss to win the NFC Divisional Playoff game last year?

Isn't this only a bad call because it didn't work? Empirically speaking, "icing" a kicker has actually worked in the past at long distances (40-55 yards). And I don't believe Bryant was even trying on that first attempt, so that defeats the whole "what if" nonsense.

It's a bad call cause Pete bungled trying to do it, or got confused as to when he could do it, or bungled trying to explain what he was trying to do. Here's an article on Pro Football Talk;

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -backfire/

Even after Pete explained what he was trying to do, it didn't make sense. Either ice the kicker, or don't..........but don't offer up some double talk excuse.

 

[DavidSeven]

What about Pete's not calling/calling the timeout before Bryant's first miss to win the NFC Divisional Playoff game last year?

Isn't this only a bad call because it didn't work? Empirically speaking, "icing" a kicker has actually worked in the past at long distances (40-55 yards). And I don't believe Bryant was even trying on that first attempt, so that defeats the whole "what if" nonsense.

It's a bad call cause Pete bungled trying to do it, or got confused as to when he could do it, or bungled trying to explain what he was trying to do. Here's an article on Pro Football Talk;

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -backfire/

Even after Pete explained what he was trying to do, it didn't make sense. Either ice the kicker, or don't..........but don't offer up some double talk excuse.

I really don't see what you're talking about. What excuse is he making? He said he wanted the timeout. The only thing he was upset about was that the refs let Bryant get in a "practice kick" after the timeout was called when they told Carroll they wouldn't allow it before the game. It makes complete sense to me.

 

[ImTheScientist]

John Fox? LOL.

John Fox minus Peyton Manning = .500 coach.


1. Bellicheat (He's an ass, but he's arguably the best schemer of all time, and has 3 rings)
2. Payton (Tremendous offensive mind, and look no further than how good the Saints are with him and without him for leadership ability)
3. Tomlin (No coach gets more out of nothing than Tomlin)
4. McCarthy (something like 50-17 over the past 4 years, great judge of talent)

Anyone without a good QB is a .500 coach. Take the QB from any coach you listed and how good are they? Fox went to the superbowl with Jake Delhome.

 

[RichNhansom]

Why am I so high on Jimmy?

1, and this has to be first, he is an insufferable douche.
2, Jimmy might have inherited a good team, but lets not pretend that all that talent was winning without him.
3, his offensive line schematics are awesome. Seriously.
4, he got production out of Alex Smith, who is BORING.
5, when he and Roman tried to use the new toy too much (kaepernick), they recognized it wasn't working and put the team on their biggest strength, the O-line.
6, Kaepernick is both a supreme talent and deeply flawed, yet he has kept most teams from taking advantage of those flaws.

Insufferable douche or not, he is a damn good coach. I think Pete has constructed the perfect team to counter his, but in his first two years he missed the SB by one play and missed winning the SB by one play. I may hate the guy, but I respect his ability.

Phone typing.

He is a very good in game coach and no question a good coach but I do wonder how successful he would be if he had not walked into a loaded roster following a mental midget in Singletary.
Alex Smith is 7-0 right now in a new system so obviously he was more capable than Singletary was getting.
Even Stanford he had Luck who he didn't recruit.
I think there is a lot of questions to still be answered about him. In game he has proven but just about every other aspect still has questions. I think we will make a better decision after a couple more seasons.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What about Pete's not calling/calling the timeout before Bryant's first miss to win the NFC Divisional Playoff game last year?

Isn't this only a bad call because it didn't work? Empirically speaking, "icing" a kicker has actually worked in the past at long distances (40-55 yards). And I don't believe Bryant was even trying on that first attempt, so that defeats the whole "what if" nonsense.

It's a bad call cause Pete bungled trying to do it, or got confused as to when he could do it, or bungled trying to explain what he was trying to do. Here's an article on Pro Football Talk;

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -backfire/

Even after Pete explained what he was trying to do, it didn't make sense. Either ice the kicker, or don't..........but don't offer up some double talk excuse.

I really don't see what you're talking about. What excuse is he making? He said he wanted the timeout. The only thing he was upset about was that the refs let Bryant get in a "practice kick" after the timeout was called when they told Carroll they wouldn't allow it before the game. It makes complete sense to me.

He waited to long to call the timeout, thus letting Bryant get in a free practice kick. How is that not bungling the timeout? Then he got mad cause the refs didn't stop Bryant from said practice kick, which helped him make the actual kick. That my friend is textbook bungle, and EXACTLY why Pete has a Scarlett Letter for being a poor clock manager.

 

[Brahn]

Jim Harbaugh a great coach? Last time I checked, great coaches didn't get blown out multiple times per year.

 

[formido]

Personally, I think too much focus is placed on very transparent in-game decisions like 4th down calls.

Good point. Related to "bikeshedding":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson' ... triviality

It's easy to criticize the things that are easy to understand and easy to see.

This is a tiny part of the game in the grand scheme of things, but it gets a lot of attention because it's so easy to point out. What do we usually consider "good coaching" at the amateur level? It's the ability to teach and motivate your players. Is there a better person at doing that than Pete Carroll? He's certainly among the elite in that category.

In terms of game plans and in-game adjustments, I don't see the flaws. This team has consistently exploited other teams weaknesses and gotten better as games have gone on. How about general scheming? Well, the entire NFL is trying to emulate what Pete is doing on defense right now, so that should answer that question. In terms of the characteristics that really matter as a coach, Pete is at the top of the game. Whether you agree with his decision to forego a single FG attempt is small potatoes.

I used to think Pete was "just" good at team development, with that strength significantly outweighing his relative weaknesses in scheming and in-game decisions. I don't think I believe that anymore. From Muth's article describing Seattle using the Bear front to counter Kaepernick to (as @kearly mentions) his half-time adjustments and 4 minute drill, I'm coming around to the idea that Pete knows what he's doing in most situations. I used to hate how slow we'd run the 2 minute drill, but now I appreciate that we usually only give ourselves a chance to score. In the past, nothing has infuriated me more than teams not recognizing that "leaving too much time on the clock" costs football games and is something you can influence. Pete is the first coach I've noticed who really tries to do something about this. I also liked that he went for it on 4th and 3 against Indy with no hesitation, when most coaches wouldn't.

Carroll is a philosopher of football and he's better at it than any other coach, as far as I can tell. Contrary to my initial impressions, he's turned his gaze on details I thought had escaped him, and the principles he advocates are working at every level.

If I were rating coaches, historical record only plays a part insofar as it's predictive of future success. There's a lot of luck in football so you've got to look at context. Pete hasn't won a Super Bowl, but I don't think any other working NFL coach would give a team as good a chance at future wins as Carroll. I think his process is the best.

 

[kearly]

I think Pete's clock management is excellent. How many drives have we had where we scored a TD with less than a minute left in the half? Quite a few. When we do botch it, it's usually because of a player's mistake, such as the sack Wilson took in the Falcons' game. Seattle is also one of the NFL's best teams at running the four minute offense.

What about Pete's not calling/calling the timeout before Bryant's first miss to win the NFC Divisional Playoff game last year? How bout the botched clock management last year at the Rams game right before halftime to allow them to kick a FG? Then another botched decision right after halftime with the boneheaded onside kick..........that was nothing more than Pete's ego being hurt for giving up a TD on the fake FG?

There are more examples, but these are the one's off the top of my head as to why Pete get's criticized for his clock/end of half and game decisions. I love Pete, he's a great coach, but sometimes his ego gets in the way of his decision making when it comes to some of these type of mistakes.

I agreed with all those decisions. I am not captain hindsight, though.

 

[sc85sis]

Pete has a great eye for talent, is a brilliant developer of that talent, a motivator, a defensive guru and a guy willing to think outside the box when the situation calls for it. He is a relentless competitor. He also knows far more about the offensive side of the ball than people give him credit for; he was both a DB and a QB in high school, and he's the one who re-tooled USC's offense after his first year as head coach there.

Does Pete sometimes make questionable calls in a game? Yes. If we're being truthful, every coach does. But Pete's gaffes get a lot of attention because we're so hyper-focused on the team, and because people fail to look below the surface of his "cheerleader" persona and see everything Pete brings to the table.

 

[Vandelay]

Pete Carroll without Russell Wilson is a lifetime .500 coach who never had never done anything as a Head coach except get fired. Schneider built the team and as you all point out Pete he is a great motivator but an average game day coach.

 

[Vandelay]

Why am I so high on Jimmy?

1, and this has to be first, he is an insufferable douche.
2, Jimmy might have inherited a good team, but lets not pretend that all that talent was winning without him.
3, his offensive line schematics are awesome. Seriously.
4, he got production out of Alex Smith, who is BORING.
5, when he and Roman tried to use the new toy too much (kaepernick), they recognized it wasn't working and put the team on their biggest strength, the O-line.
6, Kaepernick is both a supreme talent and deeply flawed, yet he has kept most teams from taking advantage of those flaws.

Insufferable douche or not, he is a damn good coach. I think Pete has constructed the perfect team to counter his, but in his first two years he missed the SB by one play and missed winning the SB by one play. I may hate the guy, but I respect his ability.

Phone typing.



He is a very good in game coach and no question a good coach but I do wonder how successful he would be if he had not walked into a loaded roster following a mental midget in Singletary.
Alex Smith is 7-0 right now in a new system so obviously he was more capable than Singletary was getting.
Even Stanford he had Luck who he didn't recruit.
I think there is a lot of questions to still be answered about him. In game he has proven but just about every other aspect still has questions. I think we will make a better decision after a couple more seasons.

You need to get your facts straight. Harbaugh absolutely recruited Luck and as a matter of fact he recruited RG3 as well and wanted them both to Play.