Random thoughts on the Denver preseason game

[Anonymous]

You bet he roots for high draft picks? You don't see how it's insulting to imply that a person roots for his team to lose?

This post is totally devoid of any substantive content, and ascribes a viewpoint to a person based on ZERO evidence. I'm still baffled how being opposed to PATs necessarily means that a person roots for high draft picks.

Maybe you didn't intend to be offensive, but if you can't re-read this post and understand what the issue is, then I can't help you. Either you get it or you don't.

You do realize Kip Earlywine is on record rooting for the Hawks to lose for draft position, yes?

Axe to grind, Wendell?

If you have a comment on the original post, please make it. We would all be interested in reading your personal thoughts on the team/game/players.

Thanks!

 

[Alexander]

You bet he roots for high draft picks? You don't see how it's insulting to imply that a person roots for his team to lose?

This post is totally devoid of any substantive content, and ascribes a viewpoint to a person based on ZERO evidence. I'm still baffled how being opposed to PATs necessarily means that a person roots for high draft picks.

Maybe you didn't intend to be offensive, but if you can't re-read this post and understand what the issue is, then I can't help you. Either you get it or you don't.

You do realize Kip Earlywine is on record rooting for the Hawks to lose for draft position, yes?

Ah, so your post was intended to be offensive. Glad we cleared that up.

The Seahawks have only played one game under Pete Carroll where they weren't in playoff contention. But I'm sure whatever Kip said during that one week was bad enough to justify being a jerk to him years later.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

You do realize Kip Earlywine is on record rooting for the Hawks to lose for draft position, yes?

I'd say that's horribly inaccurate.

I would concede that many fans can see the ultimate wisdom in losing for draft position as it pertains to acquiring a franchise QB. I certainly did and do ascribe to that viewpoint. The simple fact is, there is a genuine statistical precipice in the draft order when it comes to QB availability via the draft. Going back 20 years, if you pick at 12 or later, your hit rate on QBs drafted is at or around 5%. In the top 11 picks, that jumps up to around 60%.

Seattle was a team not unlike all other bad teams currently in the NFL. A team without a franchise QB. That state is simply ruinous for a franchise and can last upwards of a decade or more where your team never is capable of contending.

It's not that he hoped we would lose to improve draft stock. But more like a painful concession that it may likely result for the better in the long run.

Seattle's local experience with acquiring QBs is really kind of warped. We colloquially see drafting QBs early as extended periods of suck. Kelly Stouffer, Rick Mirer and Dan McGwire give us this sense that the practice just leads to long periods of suffering. But not all franchises spend 3 high picks on QBs over the course of 8 years only to see zero benefit. And of course, had Behring not overruled Knox and forced us to take McGwire instead of Knox's choice of Brett Favre -- our experience would have differed tremendously.

The reality is, not all draft classes are equal. Some years you have talent in the draft and those that suck that year climb out of the abyss that is not having a franchise QB. Some years, you suck but the class stinks and you find that your year of suck wasn't quite bad enough and you end up missing out on the legit talent and have to take Aaron Curry at 4th overall.

Or worse. You have an all time worst record in franchise history, but because you managed to beat a similarly bad NE team -- you end up left with Rick Mirer because you didn't suck quite enough to get Drew Bledsoe.

Advocating for the wisdom of gaining draft position is one based on long term understanding about risk, coupled with an acceptance that one or two years at the very bottom with the right talent available is better overall than 12+ years middling in the 6-9 win range. For many fans, they don't accept that idea. Without an agreement on basic principle -- the two sides will never agree.

And in fact will invoke hyperbole as quoted above claiming that the other side WANTS us to lose. All fans want the team to be successful. We'd all rather not lose.

 

[Scottemojo]

You bet he roots for high draft picks? You don't see how it's insulting to imply that a person roots for his team to lose?

This post is totally devoid of any substantive content, and ascribes a viewpoint to a person based on ZERO evidence. I'm still baffled how being opposed to PATs necessarily means that a person roots for high draft picks.

Maybe you didn't intend to be offensive, but if you can't re-read this post and understand what the issue is, then I can't help you. Either you get it or you don't.

You do realize Kip Earlywine is on record rooting for the Hawks to lose for draft position, yes?

Okay. Now we have discovered the root of your discontent. Which had absolutely nothing to do with extra points or his post game writeup. And everything to do with you having an axe to grind.

This makes me wonder if you used to go by a different identity. If so, how weak.

 

[WendellWent]

You bet he roots for high draft picks? You don't see how it's insulting to imply that a person roots for his team to lose?

This post is totally devoid of any substantive content, and ascribes a viewpoint to a person based on ZERO evidence. I'm still baffled how being opposed to PATs necessarily means that a person roots for high draft picks.

Maybe you didn't intend to be offensive, but if you can't re-read this post and understand what the issue is, then I can't help you. Either you get it or you don't.

You do realize Kip Earlywine is on record rooting for the Hawks to lose for draft position, yes?

Ah, so your post was intended to be offensive. Glad we cleared that up.

The Seahawks have only played one game under Pete Carroll where they weren't in playoff contention. But I'm sure whatever Kip said during that one week was bad enough to justify being a jerk to him years later.

Why is that offensive?

 

[tacomahawk]

Ibwould not at all be displeased if Wendall's posts Went away! Keep on posting Kip I appreciate what you do, and I know a lot of others do as well. Unfortunately, some people can't appreciate a different point of view without getting personal and tearing down others.

 

[Scottemojo]

So Wendell joins this year, but has an axe to grind from 4 years ago? His first post was about the Sherman extension.

What gives? Something stinks.

 

[WendellWent]

So Wendell joins this year, but has an axe to grind from 4 years ago? His first post was about the Sherman extension.

What gives? Something stinks.

I know Kip from other websites he wrote for, I don't care that he roots for draft picks, never said it was right wrong or anything of the sort. I was in fact agreeing with a point Roland made.

 

[Anonymous]

:thcoffee:

Soooooo, any more Random Thoughts on the game/players/team for Kip, folks?

 

[iigakusei]

Wendell - your posts reek of jealousy. Kip is one of the most insightful and respected posters on this board as I am sure you are aware of. It is fine to disagree with someone's opinions, but please learn to do it with some class.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Watching Pryor in this game felt like watching an alternate universe Seahawks team that drafted Kaepernick in 2011.

Uh-huh. I remarked several times during the game that he looked like a poor-man's Russell Wilson. He had the patented spin and run move down, but as soon as he did that, he lost all vision down field, pretty much like Kaepernick. I'm glad he got so much playing time, but for now he's third on the depth chart, and quite easily, at least for me.

The part of your post I highlighted you nailed. To me that's the huge negative that stood out for Pryor, he lost that downfield vision once he started to run. He is the anti-RW in that aspect.

 

[Sports Hernia]

:thcoffee:

Soooooo, any more Random Thoughts on the game/players/team for Kip, folks?

I don't blame Kip for being annoyed. I think he does a fantastic job doing this, even if I don't agree with a particular point he always puts up a real strong case for his argument. He's better than the folks that get PAID to write and talk about sports in this town IMHO.

 

[Happypuppy]

I agree on the extra point issue. NFL Plz stop changing rules to make it " better". If it's for safety that's one thing but quite the screwing around. Baseball seldom does and it's easier to follow.


My 2 cents


Britt so-so. Keeps hips high and needs a lot of pass protection work. His footwork is slow; I suspect it's very new to him.
Not the road grader type of run blocker may lack Strength or needs work on leverage.

Turbin. I am one of those that has been seeing the JJ In Turbin. He is just not that special. There are a lot if backs in the league like him. However in a run first O we need more. Cable based on interviews and play time is not a fan of CM. I disagree I think he runs hard. He is just a different style. He reminds me a lot if Ricky Waters in style. I was living in the SFBA when SF drafted him and saw him a lot there and then here. Ricky was never a great blocker but became adequate. He used a stutter step similar to CM and Walsh hated it trading him saying he was not a decisive runner. I think he was proven wrong

 

[BillHawks]

The extra point rule is stupid and Kearly is right, any game that ends on a missed extra point would be a disgrace to the game (IMO, obviously). If they want to make things more interesting they should force every team to go for two or something. Or even do something crazy like a 60 yard extra point that's worth 3 points. Or maybe just leave it the way it was?

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Watching Pryor in this game felt like watching an alternate universe Seahawks team that drafted Kaepernick in 2011.

Uh-huh. I remarked several times during the game that he looked like a poor-man's Russell Wilson. He had the patented spin and run move down, but as soon as he did that, he lost all vision down field, pretty much like Kaepernick. I'm glad he got so much playing time, but for now he's third on the depth chart, and quite easily, at least for me.

The part of your post I highlighted you nailed. To me that's the huge negative that stood out for Pryor, he lost that downfield vision once he started to run. He is the anti-RW in that aspect.

If Pete and the quarterbacks coaching staff can train him to overcome that, he'll be an excellent quarterback. Every quarterback has at least one or two faults or weaknesses. If his is the occasional errant throw, I'll take that any day over poor decision-making or losing down field vision when he wheels out of the pocket. If, and granted it might be a large if, he can correct that, I think his ceiling is higher than Jackson's, and Jackson is one of the very best backup quarterbacks in the game.

But yes, for now, it's glaringly obvious that when he starts to run, bad things can happen, unlike when Wilson starts to run. Watching the game in a bar with a bunch of other folks I didn't know really cemented this home to me. Every time Pryor bolted from the pocket everyone gritted their teeth and crossed their fingers. Every time Wilson did it, everyone was on the edge of their seat ready to break out cheering because they expected a really big play. The difference was palpable.

 

[kearly]

Just watched again. Wow, Scruggs and Mayowa were even less of a factor than I previously thought. They just got nowhere. Not sure either is a real NFL player. I still can't figure out why Chris Clemons isn't on this team. I think we're banking on somebody stepping up. It has to be Irvin, Schofield or Morgan, right?

Our guards had a rough game. There weren't very many times where the RB didn't have to adjust his path after taking the hand-off.

Who gets displaced to get Richardson on the field?

I don't know why, but Cooper Helfet makes me nervous. I think he's going to drop every pass.

I don't think we were really flat. We came out fine. Denver had a huge long drive that took some of the oomph out of us, and then the hour delay didn't help, but we came back fine. I think if we stop the run a bit more and convert some of the red zone opportunities, we aren't talking about emotion level. Not doing those things will effect your levels, or did the chicken come first?

I loved the pop-pass to Miller, even though we didn't complete it. We don't do that nearly enough, especially against the blitz.

I don't think Ware belongs either, unless somebody is going to keep a 5th back to play on special teams. I have never seen a NFL caliber tailback in him. Seems like the type that you might try to transition to LB or something.

Good stuff.

I thought Schofield had a solid game. One of the sacks Osweiler surrendered was due to an instant edge pressure from Schofield. He's kind of a 1 trick pony as a pass rusher but he got upfield fairly well in this game.

Mayowa and Scruggs were devastatingly ineffective, and so was my roster crush from last year, Brooks.

On the Miller throw, I agree. I think the missing piece for Wilson is finding a way to safely exploit the middle of the field.

Ware looked awful. He might end up a first wave cut.

 

[kearly]

Full disclosure.

I actually did root for draft position in 2008. We needed a QB desperately and at the time it looked like an above average QB draft coming up. Back then, it was really hard to get a QB outside of the top 15 picks and in some years you needed a top 5 pick to get a good one.

In 2009, I was rooting for Mora/Ruskell's failure, which is also kind of bad I admit, but obviously we are much better today for being rid of them.

I also wanted Seattle to drop the finale and miss the playoffs in 2010 for a couple reasons. I didn't want to be embarrassed by the first 7-9 playoff team label, and I knew our team was not very good so I figured the odds of getting a SB were close to zero. Draft pick was a consideration as well (we still desperately needed a QB), it ended up being the difference between the 8th overall pick and the 25th pick. But honestly, being forced to burn high picks on Carp and Moffitt is a deal I would make in retrospect, because that playoff berth gave us Beastquake. In retrospect I was 100% wrong for wanting to miss the playoffs. Lesson learned.

Would I ever root to miss the playoffs again? No, I don't think I would. In the current NFL you no longer need a top 5 pick to draft anything, you can get viable, even elite level QBs after round one these days. And obviously, it's going to be a really long time before we have to think about who our next franchise QB will be.

I don't expect that I would ever root for draft position, the few times I've done it, I've regretted it later.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Just watched again. Wow, Scruggs and Mayowa were even less of a factor than I previously thought. They just got nowhere. Not sure either is a real NFL player. I still can't figure out why Chris Clemons isn't on this team. I think we're banking on somebody stepping up. It has to be Irvin, Schofield or Morgan, right?

Our guards had a rough game. There weren't very many times where the RB didn't have to adjust his path after taking the hand-off.

Who gets displaced to get Richardson on the field?

I don't know why, but Cooper Helfet makes me nervous. I think he's going to drop every pass.

I don't think we were really flat. We came out fine. Denver had a huge long drive that took some of the oomph out of us, and then the hour delay didn't help, but we came back fine. I think if we stop the run a bit more and convert some of the red zone opportunities, we aren't talking about emotion level. Not doing those things will effect your levels, or did the chicken come first?

I loved the pop-pass to Miller, even though we didn't complete it. We don't do that nearly enough, especially against the blitz.

I don't think Ware belongs either, unless somebody is going to keep a 5th back to play on special teams. I have never seen a NFL caliber tailback in him. Seems like the type that you might try to transition to LB or something.

Good stuff.

I thought Schofield had a solid game. One of the sacks Osweiler surrendered was due to an instant edge pressure from Schofield. He's kind of a 1 trick pony as a pass rusher but he got upfield fairly well in this game.

Mayowa and Scruggs were devastatingly ineffective, and so was my roster crush from last year, Brooks.

On the Miller throw, I agree. I think the missing piece for Wilson is finding a way to safely exploit the middle of the field.

Ware looked awful. He might end up a first wave cut.

I thought Ware was Kiero Small. He looks massive and not in a good way.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Full disclosure.

I actually did root for draft position in 2008. We needed a QB desperately and at the time it looked like an above average QB draft coming up. Back then, it was really hard to get a QB outside of the top 15 picks and in some years you needed a top 5 pick to get a good one.

In 2009, I was rooting for Mora/Ruskell's failure, which is also kind of bad I admit, but obviously we are much better today for being rid of them.

I also wanted Seattle to drop the finale and miss the playoffs in 2010 for a couple reasons. I didn't want to be embarrassed by the first 7-9 playoff team label, and I knew our team was not very good so I figured the odds of getting a SB were close to zero. Draft pick was a consideration as well (we still desperately needed a QB), it ended up being the difference between the 8th overall pick and the 25th pick. But honestly, being forced to burn high picks on Carp and Moffitt is a deal I would make in retrospect, because that playoff berth gave us Beastquake. In retrospect I was 100% wrong for wanting to miss the playoffs. Lesson learned.

Would I ever root to miss the playoffs again? No, I don't think I would. In the current NFL you no longer need a top 5 pick to draft anything, you can get viable, even elite level QBs after round one these days. And obviously, it's going to be a really long time before we have to think about who our next franchise QB will be.

I don't expect that I would ever root for draft position, the few times I've done it, I've regretted it later.

I rooted for the Rams in that 2010 Week 17 game too.. then the Beastquake happened and I realized I was wrong.

While I do think that playoff game was big for the mindset of the team, I can't help but wonder what would have happened had the Seahawks lost that game and picked 8th. Considering the labor strike happened, I don't think they would have picked a QB at 8th (thankfully, since Locker/Gabbert/Ponder were the options) .. but the defensive line options were un-freaking-real (JJ Watt, Robert Quinn). Or even Tyron Smith could have been in play.

Interesting decision looking back on it.

 

[kearly]

Regarding Pryor, my amateur evaluation is that in college and in Oakland he was accustomed to just taking off and using his 4.3 speed when breaking out of the pocket. But in this game, he seemed to be running at 70% speed while keeping his eyes downfield, running parallel to the sideline. He seemed really uncomfortable doing this, and the shaky accuracy also hints at a lack of repetition in these situations.

The final throw also hinted at lack of experience. The throw had perfect accuracy, if Lockette had not been defended. In that situation, a veteran QB would throw to the outside shoulder where only the receiver could get the ball, but Pryor did not have this awareness.

Tjack looked pretty crappy when he first came here, especially in that first lockout shortened preseason. Now he looks awesome. I think a lot of that had to do with him changing habits for the better and getting used to them.

It could just be that Pryor is a lost cause. But I'd be willing to give him a year and see what happens unless it means he's bumping a very good player off the 53 man. Watching Pryor I get the feeling there is something to him, unlike previous backups like CBJ. His preseason debut was a hell of a lot better than Tjack's in 2011 (Tjack was awful that preseason and awful early in the regular season). I think he's an intriguing player, even if he's not a player we need.