Problems with running the ball in the red zone?

fenderbender123

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Thing about Walter though (and many of those types of runners) was that he lived with chronic pain after football and used drugs to deal with it during his playing days.

If other running backs don't want to make those kinds of sacrifices, fine, but they shouldn't expect to be respected and revered at anywhere near the same level as Walter Payton or other running backs, and they should expect fans to point out the difference. Can't have it both ways.
 

NoGain

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Thing about Walter though (and many of those types of runners) was that he lived with chronic pain after football and used drugs to deal with it during his playing days. If a RB decides to run out of bounds when there is nothing to be gained instead of looking for contact, i'm fine with that.
Did Payton really live with chronic pain after football? I know he used painkillers such as IBP by the handfuls during his playing days which probably led to the internal complications which eventually killed him. I just wonder if he became addicted to them after his playing days, drugs like Vicodin. I should read one of his biographies. I think Payton was more in emotional/psychological pain after his playing days. His family life fell apart, he was suicidal off and on.

But what a joy of a player to watch. Nothing llike him.
 

pittpnthrs

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If other running backs don't want to make those kinds of sacrifices, fine, but they shouldn't expect to be respected and revered at anywhere near the same level as Walter Payton or other running backs, and they should expect fans to point out the difference. Can't have it both ways.

Not many RB's are revered as Walter anyways, but many that are weren't bruisers (Sanders, Smith, LT, etc,,,).
 

pittpnthrs

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Did Payton really live with chronic pain after football? I know he used painkillers such as IBP by the handfuls during his playing days which probably led to the internal complications which eventually killed him. I just wonder if he became addicted to them after his playing days, drugs like Vicodin. I should read one of his biographies. I think Payton was more in emotional/psychological pain after his playing days. His family life fell apart, he was suicidal off and on.

But what a joy of a player to watch. Nothing llike him.

Hard to say. Just going off of what was told of him -

After a decade of playing in the National Football League, Payton's body was torn up with arthritic knees, shoulders, back, hips and ankles. He was in chronic pain
 

projectorfreak

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Sometimes hard to argue with a business decision, especially after you get a 1st down
That's why Tyler doesn't bother me at all
Far as geno n the red zone goes , he might seem shy because he knows the play call
I really hope grubb can make a difference in that regard.
Waldron was ok but barely.
We have almost 2 months and we'll find out.
I despised the russ led broncos, since then i really just want to destroy sean Payton
What an asshat he apears to be
After he dredged Hackett through the mud , amongst other things, getting his butt kicked on a regular basis was very
satisfying
Go Hawks
 

RiverDog

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Thing about Walter though (and many of those types of runners) was that he lived with chronic pain after football and used drugs to deal with it during his playing days. If a RB decides to run out of bounds when there is nothing to be gained instead of looking for contact, i'm fine with that.
Sweetness also played a 14-game schedule and a much less robust playoff system.

Running back is by far the most injury prone position on the field. I love a Beast type running back that seeks out contact, but they need to be smart about it.
 

NoGain

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Payton only played a 14 game schedule the first three of his thirteen seasons. And he also played on one of the most predicatble and one dimensional of offenses. I watched every game he played. I mean, I think myself and every defense knew he was getting the ball when he got it 85-90% of the time. And he was one of the best blocking backs of all time as well, not to mention his passing prowess.

The GOAT.
 

IndyHawk

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They did but again I can remember multiple touchdowns that were there and we didn't pull the trigger. That moves the needle a ton. I know Geno criticism is frowned upon but he was a major part of the problem in the red zone too. Maybe Grubb and a couple of new pieces on the line and it all works itself out. I don't think they're that far from figuring it out and being much better in the red zone.

The line sucked in 2020 and 2021 too and yet we were fine in the red zone.
I really thought the entire coaching staff was an issue and Waldron was one of
the worst OCs I have ever seen.
I really think Geno played his ass off despite being hindered by an injured OL line,bad D
and a lousy OC.
I think the new OC and OL coach will be great for the offense,in fact I was wanting Grubb
early in the year last season which is how much faith I lost in Waldron.
A better D which is a given will also do wonders for the offense.
 

morgulon1

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What are your thoughts on this interesting article?

2022​

  • 19 carries for 11 yards (0.6 yards per carry, worst in the NFL),
  • 2 touchdowns (fewest in the NFL)
  • 52.6% stuff rate (carries resulting in 0 or lost yards, worst in the NFL by 11%)
  • 21.1% positive EPA rate (worst in the NFL by 16%)

2023​

  • 32 carries for 18 yards (0.6 yards per carry, second-worst in the NFL)
  • 7 touchdowns (17th in the NFL)
  • 37.5% stuff rate (fifth-worst in the NFL)
  • 43.8% positive EPA rate (seventh-worst in the NFL)

Funny how it's one of the main emphasis of PC and they were about as bad as you can get. Seattle has a couple of good backs but it doesn't matter if they can't move the line of scrimmage.
 

NoGain

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As someone who watched Payton's every run, I ask anyone to look through all his highlight reels...and if you don't just go WTF! after seeing them all...I don't know what else to say. The guy was an insanely tough guy, toughest guy of all time that I've ever seen in the NFL. John Madden himself knew it.
 

Hawkinaz

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Earl Campbell was the original bruising RB looking for contact he only lasted 8 years and has post career injuries which include arthritis that is so bad he couldn’t close his hand to make a fist at age 46, foot drop due to nerve damage in his legs and spinal stenosis. In 2009 he was taking OxyContin as many as 10 a day with Budweiser, he went into rehab the same year
 

Hawkinaz

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Well Petes system was about Gaps and letting the RB find one and go up field, Zone blocking system that tried to deceive or misdirect the defense, which by the way everyone said was predictable. Additionally, we were only successful with a never say die back that had great balance and a great lateral sidestep like a crab to elude guys. His success allowed play action to work and covered the lines lack of control and push along with an elusive QB. We were never about dominating the line of scrimmage on offense, that was evident with Geno back there as well, he was as successful as he was in spite of the line. Why I think with good line play and a dependable running game he will excel. This will also help the red zone game where we can possibly get the short yardage when we go on fourth down and where the ball is on the goal line.
ZBS as not Carroll’s system it has been around since post WWII to combat the pre snap movements of defensive linemen. Alex Gibbs perfected it. The wide zone became popular in the late 80s using Icky Woods. Gibbs was able to study under Joe Gibbs and Joe Bugel that were running a system they called wide gap. in 1995 Gibbs got a job with Denver where Mike Shanahan wanted to use the system at that time it was joked that any RB could get 1000 yards behind the Denver O line. Gibbs finally found his way to Seattle in 2010 but left soon due to health issues, it’s a case of what could have been
 

Ozzy

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I really thought the entire coaching staff was an issue and Waldron was one of
the worst OCs I have ever seen.
I really think Geno played his ass off despite being hindered by an injured OL line,bad D
and a lousy OC.
I think the new OC and OL coach will be great for the offense,in fact I was wanting Grubb
early in the year last season which is how much faith I lost in Waldron.
A better D which is a given will also do wonders for the offense.
It’s a valid take honestly. I do find it odd though when people say Geno played lights out after never doing anything for a decade but then say Waldron was terrible. Seems unfair to Waldron and it could just as easily be Waldron was a major factor in Geno playing his ass off no? I hate when people do this but cmikespinmove says Waldron was much better than people give him credit for when he studies the tape.

I honestly don’t know. It’s a weird situation because it’s hard to know all the details. I tend to think griff is probably partially right since he’s such a good film guy.

Either way I’m pumped for Grubb too. I have zero doubts he will be better than Waldron for sure.
 

Maelstrom787

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I gave Waldron too much crap and Dickerson not enough crap for the red zone rushing woes.

We couldn't run to save our lives in the exact situations where a team NEEDS to be able to run, and I generally attribute that to the line more than anything. It's not the running backs.

That killed our third down and red zone passing game. You can't be as one-dimensional as we were and get away with it.

I'm optimistic. Our offensive coaching expertise is heavily skewed toward OL and Grubb has always churned out pros.
 

Maelstrom787

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I gave Waldron too much crap and Dickerson not enough crap for the red zone rushing woes.

We couldn't run to save our lives in the exact situations where a team NEEDS to be able to run, and I generally attribute that to the line more than anything. It's not the running backs.

That killed our third down and red zone passing game. You can't be as one-dimensional as we were and get away with it.

I'm optimistic. Our offensive coaching expertise is heavily skewed toward OL and Grubb has always churned out pros.
Also, I think it says a lot that Waldron and Dickerson had been a total duo up until this point and Waldron let him go to Cleveland as their OL coach instead of pounding the table for him in Chicago.

I think Dickerson was doing a genuinely bad job by the end here.
 

pittpnthrs

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I really thought the entire coaching staff was an issue and Waldron was one of
the worst OCs I have ever seen.
I really think Geno played his ass off despite being hindered by an injured OL line,bad D
and a lousy OC.
I think the new OC and OL coach will be great for the offense,in fact I was wanting Grubb
early in the year last season which is how much faith I lost in Waldron.
A better D which is a given will also do wonders for the offense.

I'm still in the corner or thinking Waldron wasn't bad and that Pete had him curtailed. I'm anxious to see how he does in Chicago to see if my theory was right.
 

Bear-Hawk

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Payton only played a 14 game schedule the first three of his thirteen seasons. And he also played on one of the most predicatble and one dimensional of offenses. I watched every game he played. I mean, I think myself and every defense knew he was getting the ball when he got it 85-90% of the time. And he was one of the best blocking backs of all time as well, not to mention his passing prowess.

The GOAT.

I'm still in the corner or thinking Waldron wasn't bad and that Pete had him curtailed. I'm anxious to see how he does in Chicago to see if my theory was right.
Waldron is finally getting to run his own show. I expect Eberflus will focus on the defense and pretty much defer to Shane on offense. They both like to run the ball, so it’s a good match from that standpoint. But now that Bears have best WR group in the league, I have to believe the passing game will be a large part of the offense.

Bears are finally on HBO Hard Knocks. Bears fans are excited about that, too.
 

pittpnthrs

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Waldron is finally getting to run his own show. I expect Eberflus will focus on the defense and pretty much defer to Shane on offense. They both like to run the ball, so it’s a good match from that standpoint. But now that Bears have best WR group in the league, I have to believe the passing game will be a large part of the offense.

Bears are finally on HBO Hard Knocks. Bears fans are excited about that, too.

Biggest question is Caleb Williams. Bears fans better hope he pans out or the offense will look like garbage regardless.
 

Bear-Hawk

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Biggest question is Caleb Williams. Bears fans better hope he pans out or the offense will look like garbage regardless.
That’s true, but Williams has best supporting cast of any rookie QB in a long time — maybe ever. I don’t see any weakness in this offense except potentially the middle of the offensive line.

Having said that, I admit I will be nervous until I see what Waldron does with it all on the field. When it comes to the QB position, all Bears fans suffer PTSD.
 
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