Pete is in wake up mode

[Sgt. Largent]

I thought Week 1 and the last few games were down to having a healthy, effective RB and an efficient QB putting up 100+ passer rating performances. Apparently i'm wrong and it was 100% Pete Carroll, or the 100% absence of Pete Carroll, depending on the narrative.

Pete Ball can also be successful with a decent defense and healthy productive RB.

That's what you saw the last 4-5 games when Penny was healthy and productive. That has nothing to do with this conversation about Pete "in wake up mode" or relinquishing control, etc.

All most of us are saying is we'll believe it when we see it. Three coordinators in four years with varying backgrounds and play calling philosophies, and the offense is indistinguishable? Eh, that's not change.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good point. A good running game is massive in his system. That has become very evident over the years. A great running game sets up everything. Also, time of possession is something that has to improve by this offense.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I thought Week 1 and the last few games were down to having a healthy, effective RB and an efficient QB putting up 100+ passer rating performances. Apparently i'm wrong and it was 100% Pete Carroll, or the 100% absence of Pete Carroll, depending on the narrative.

Pete Ball can also be successful with a decent defense and healthy productive RB.

That's what you saw the last 4-5 games when Penny was healthy and productive. That has nothing to do with this conversation about Pete "in wake up mode" or relinquishing control, etc.

All most of us are saying is we'll believe it when we see it. Three coordinators in four years with varying backgrounds and play calling philosophies, and the offense is indistinguishable? Eh, that's not change.

The offense is indistinguishable?

During your quoted timeframe, Seattle ranges from the best rushing team in the league to the worst in separate years. They also range from one of the most run heavy to one of the most pass heavy in neutral situations, depending on the year.

From strictly zone to more power and back to zone blocking schemes.

To call it indistinguishable is just ignoring a lot of differences, not just in process but in result too

 

[John63]

Good point. A good running game is massive in his system. That has become very evident over the years. A great running game sets up everything. Also, time of possession is something that has to improve by this offense.

Agreed in PC preferred system you need a strong running game. This is why its not a Wilson issue but a PC issue. even Shanes's scheme relies on a strong running game. ITs also not just a Wilson thing as all of the top QBs need a strong run game

You look at all the top QBs
2021
Rodgers 112 YPG
Allen 130 YPG
Mahomes 115 YPG

2020
Rodgers 132 ypg
Mahomes 113 YPG
Alen 107 YPG

All QBs need a run game, this is not just a Wilson thing, and is more prevalent in the way PC wants to play. That said PC in an interview steppe don it saying SF runs it 40 times a game. They don't.

SF last 2 years
2021 29 rush attempts per game
2020 27 rush attempts per game

In fact, even in our SB years, we did not run close to 40 times a game. If you look at the great Qbs and when they won SBs you would find they almost all had a great run game and great defense.

 

[Fade]

The defense was quite good after Pete took the reigns back. Top 5 in scoring, top 10 in yards. Who is being exposed now?

Nope. It was all Ken Norton. Y'see Pete doesn't meddle, or so I'm told.

They finished 21st in DVOA, the late season surge pulled them out of dumpster fire status, but they still sucked overall. Can't force turnovers, can't get pressure, can't get off the field.

They were so successful that Pete has abandoned his scheme for Fangio's.

 

[John63]

The defense was quite good after Pete took the reigns back. Top 5 in scoring, top 10 in yards. Who is being exposed now?

Nope. It was all Ken Norton. Y'see Pete doesn't meddle, or so I'm told.

They finished 21st in DVOA, the late season surge pulled them out of dumpster fire status, but they still sucked overall. Can't force turnovers, can't get pressure, can't get off the field.

They were so successful that Pete has abandoned his scheme for Fangio's.

Not to mention the whole when PC took over and all. I believe that was the last 4 games were we gave up 104 points which is 26 per game which would be 7th worse in the league.

 

[TwistedHusky]

This is an interesting argument but unresolvable.

We won't know what we have until we see the team play.

The problem is that, for the most part, Pete has relied on freeing his great playmakers to make plays. We win because our players end up better than the other team. Very rarely does scheme, tactics, or strategy play a material part in a positive sense.

Looking at our roster, it just seems difficult to see where these great players are going to come from. With the exception of Russ and a very uneven DK, maybe a standout game from Tyler ???
(We probably should also point out those are all passing game weapons, so how much will we even leverage with a coach that has a bizarre predilection for balanced offenses or even run heavy offenses?)

For the most part, it looks like we can expect an above .500 team, but nothing to threaten a playoff run with. Not even the caliber of the Browns or Titans, much less some of the upper-tier playoff contenders.

The wildcard is Wilson and whatever our defense becomes. Because improving from one of the worst defenses last year, to even giving our offense more at-bats - seems like it should push us forward a bit. We were already competitive with a terrible D and a nowhere near 100% QB....

But ratcheting expectations way down seems reasonable.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The defense was quite good after Pete took the reigns back. Top 5 in scoring, top 10 in yards. Who is being exposed now?

Nope. It was all Ken Norton. Y'see Pete doesn't meddle, or so I'm told.

They finished 21st in DVOA, the late season surge pulled them out of dumpster fire status, but they still sucked overall. Can't force turnovers, can't get pressure, can't get off the field.

They were so successful that Pete has abandoned his scheme for Fangio's.

Not to mention the whole when PC took over and all. I believe that was the last 4 games were we gave up 104 points which is 26 per game which would be 7th worse in the league.

Interesting, seeing as that's the same timeframe you've identified as Pete taking his hands off the wheel and letting his guys coach.

So much conspiracy shit that it can hardly be kept straight now.

 

[John63]

This is an interesting argument but unresolvable.

We won't know what we have until we see the team play.

The problem is that, for the most part, Pete has relied on freeing his great playmakers to make plays. We win because our players end up better than the other team. Very rarely does scheme, tactics, or strategy play a material part in a positive sense.

Looking at our roster, it just seems difficult to see where these great players are going to come from. With the exception of Russ and a very uneven DK, maybe a standout game from Tyler ???
(We probably should also point out those are all passing game weapons, so how much will we even leverage with a coach that has a bizarre predilection for balanced offenses or even run heavy offenses?)

For the most part, it looks like we can expect an above .500 team, but nothing to threaten a playoff run with. Not even the caliber of the Browns or Titans, much less some of the upper-tier playoff contenders.

The wildcard is Wilson and whatever our defense becomes. Because improving from one of the worst defenses last year, to even giving our offense more at-bats - seems like it should push us forward a bit. We were already competitive with a terrible D and a nowhere near 100% QB....

But ratcheting expectations way down seems reasonable.

This^^^

 

[Greenhell]

I believe it when I see it.

Pete's done this for the past 3-4 seasons, talks a big game about changing his coordinators and schemes to be more successful, then when the games get going you can see there's no discernable difference and it's back to Pete Ball.

Exactly!

 

[John63]

I believe it when I see it.

Pete's done this for the past 3-4 seasons, talks a big game about changing his coordinators and schemes to be more successful, then when the games get going you can see there's no discernable difference and it's back to Pete Ball.

Exactly!

Yup and while I am hoping for the best I am not expecting it. The only reason I have hope is the last 2 games at least offensively.

 

[Jerhawk]

I will do what I always do: remain optimistic and eager for the new season to start all spring and summer, preparing our Redemption tour and winning the Superbowl.
Then about week 2 of preseason I'll come to terms with reality and realize this team will never sniff another Superbowl under Carroll, we wasted Wilson's career, and we will plunge head first into 30 years of mediocrity until the team moves to another city

 

[xray]

As per topic heading...Pete is " in " the wake until he proves otherwise . IMO

 

[James in PA]

Let Pete Cook!

 

[NJlargent]

It’s fascinating that we think PC is in wake up mode. Lol he has no accountability.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I believe it when I see it.

Pete's done this for the past 3-4 seasons, talks a big game about changing his coordinators and schemes to be more successful, then when the games get going you can see there's no discernable difference and it's back to Pete Ball.

I really can't take that statement seriously considering the very significant differences between 2019, 2020, and 2021 in both scheme and philosophy.

Please explain.

Because after the Colts game where we did see some McVay-esque playcalling and positional scheme tweaks with Eskridge and lining Metcalf up inside, it regressed quickly to what it's always looked like for the remainder of the season.

The explanation is you assume as FACT, that those things went away because Pete demanded it. Which is an assumption, not a fact for one. Two, in order to subscribe to your assumption, you'd have to believe that any HC would purposefully tell his coaches to stop doing something that worked the week prior, which even the worst HC ever would never do. Three, in order to subscribe to your assumption, you'd have to ignore the level of influence that the QB/OC has in what happens at the LOS. Not to mention their influence on gameplans.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I thought Week 1 and the last few games were down to having a healthy, effective RB and an efficient QB putting up 100+ passer rating performances. Apparently i'm wrong and it was 100% Pete Carroll, or the 100% absence of Pete Carroll, depending on the narrative.

Pete Ball can also be successful with a decent defense and healthy productive RB.

That's what you saw the last 4-5 games when Penny was healthy and productive. That has nothing to do with this conversation about Pete "in wake up mode" or relinquishing control, etc.

All most of us are saying is we'll believe it when we see it. Three coordinators in four years with varying backgrounds and play calling philosophies, and the offense is indistinguishable? Eh, that's not change.

The offense is indistinguishable?

During your quoted timeframe, Seattle ranges from the best rushing team in the league to the worst in separate years. They also range from one of the most run heavy to one of the most pass heavy in neutral situations, depending on the year.

From strictly zone to more power and back to zone blocking schemes.

To call it indistinguishable is just ignoring a lot of differences, not just in process but in result too

These narratives are all results driven. There's never been any level of detail involved in this. Here's a fan's typical breakdown:

Run play didn't work
Run play worked
Pass play didn't work
Pass play worked
Offense scored a lot
Offense scored a little
Defense gave up a lot of points
Defense gave up few points
Team won
Team lost
Ask people to go into any more detail than that and you'll just get regurgitated Twitter or Reddit comments, that are regurgitated from whoever their favorite blogger is. Most of whom also have no real idea what they're seeing when watching a game

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete has changed some coordinators. That is better than I hoped.

Expecting change after this long makes no sense though.

We are probably, almost assuredly, going to be better because we don't have an injured QB and we have an easier schedule.

Playoffs?

Unlikely.

But better than .500 record? Almost assured.

Wilson will say all the right things while his people leak stuff during the regular season. I don't expect he will be here longer than his current contract. But trading him would likely be a disaster for the Hawks too. So he probably stays.

Ultimately we will probably end up looking pretty close to the Seahawk teams we have been for the past 5 years.

Which is decent. Over a decade of winning is something most fans do not get.

But Pete waking up or not probably does not matter at this point.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I thought Week 1 and the last few games were down to having a healthy, effective RB and an efficient QB putting up 100+ passer rating performances. Apparently i'm wrong and it was 100% Pete Carroll, or the 100% absence of Pete Carroll, depending on the narrative.

Pete Ball can also be successful with a decent defense and healthy productive RB.

That's what you saw the last 4-5 games when Penny was healthy and productive. That has nothing to do with this conversation about Pete "in wake up mode" or relinquishing control, etc.

All most of us are saying is we'll believe it when we see it. Three coordinators in four years with varying backgrounds and play calling philosophies, and the offense is indistinguishable? Eh, that's not change.

The offense is indistinguishable?

During your quoted timeframe, Seattle ranges from the best rushing team in the league to the worst in separate years. They also range from one of the most run heavy to one of the most pass heavy in neutral situations, depending on the year.

From strictly zone to more power and back to zone blocking schemes.

To call it indistinguishable is just ignoring a lot of differences, not just in process but in result too

These narratives are all results driven. There's never been any level of detail involved in this. Here's a fan's typical breakdown:

Run play didn't work
Run play worked
Pass play didn't work
Pass play worked
Offense scored a lot
Offense scored a little
Defense gave up a lot of points
Defense gave up few points
Team won
Team lost
Ask people to go into any more detail than that and you'll just get regurgitated Twitter or Reddit comments, that are regurgitated from whoever their favorite blogger is. Most of whom also have no real idea what they're seeing when watching a game

So is saying it's different without giving proof.

You don't go through three coordinators in four years and have your offense look 80-90% exactly the same without understanding that Pete meddles in scheme and playcalling when the offense isn't being productive.

That's the narrative shared by everyone who knows football coast to coast.

But yeah, I'm sure it's just me.

 

[John63]

So is saying it's different without giving proof.

You don't go through three coordinators in four years and have your offense look 80-90% exactly the same without understanding that Pete meddles in scheme and playcalling when the offense isn't being productive.

That's the narrative shared by everyone who knows football coast to coast.

But yeah, I'm sure it's just me.

I agree but I am don't think it is just when the offense is not being productive. I think it is when the defense is bad, or when the offense is not doing it in a way he likes. For example first half of the first game last year was awesome but 2nd half looks just like the same old same old. PC said he wanted to run more to help his defense.

PC uses the offense to help his defense more than any other coach. While some on her love to say defense wins championships let's remember the best defense is a good offense and both of the teams in the SB were top 10 in scoring, while middle of the road in defense.

The reality is like the frog and the scorpion PC will not change his spots. At some time he will change everything back to what he likes even though what he likes has not worked since 2014. Even though by his own words without Wilson he would have been gone a long time ago.

While I am hoping what we saw from the offense in the last 2 games will be the norm. I don't expect it to last. If his defense comes out slow, someone gets hurt, or his run game is not working the way he wants, he will revert and any chance of doing anything will go away.

We will see.