Confidence in Waldron is teetering

[LTH]

I think your right about this . I think that fans are looking at it in a different context than what's really happening with the development of this offense.

LTH

I don't think Waldron's the problem. Just my take.

Here is what I mean by context.

If your developing an offense you have to look at it as a whole.

I'm sure they are asking the question what does our O need to look like to compete against ELITE competition?

Well.. they know the 2-3 TE sets are very effective but they need to develope other aspects of the offense to be successful, because if they don't then teams will just adjust and take away what they are good at. If they develope those other avenues then they have a great mix of plays that are successful.

So how do you develope the other aspects that they feel are necessary to be successful? Well ....you put together a game plan focusing on those area's and run them against elite competition. Can't really develope them in practice, it needs to be against elite competition to truly know where those aspects of the O land. Then they have a gauge of where they are at and what needs to be fixed. If they just run what they are good at then they never grow the offense to be elite.

That's the progression of the season. Unfortunately for the Hawks they got steam rolled.

That's my take


LTH

 

[scutterhawk]

Fellas, I recommend both of you attend a Seahawks Kumbaya meeting together.

LOL Yeah, I tried that once and kept forgetting the words to the song ;-)

 

[CallMeADawg]

Here is what I mean by context.

If your developing an offense you have to look at it as a whole.

I'm sure they are asking the question what does our O need to look like to compete against ELITE competition?

Well.. they know the 2-3 TE sets are very effective but they need to develope other aspects of the offense to be successful, because if they don't then teams will just adjust and take away what they are good at. If they develope those other avenues then they have a great mix of plays that are successful.

So how do you develope the other aspects that they feel are necessary to be successful? Well ....you put together a game plan focusing on those area's and run them against elite competition. Can't really develope them in practice, it needs to be against elite competition to truly know where those aspects of the O land. Then they have a gauge of where they are at and what needs to be fixed. If they just run what they are good at then they never grow the offense to be elite.

That's the progression of the season. Unfortunately for the Hawks they got steam rolled.

That's my take


LTH

Do they needed to test some plays against elite competition for all 4 quarters of a game though? At a certain point you've already seen what happened and further testing is unnecessary.

 

[CallMeADawg]

It is so nice to see some of the fans finally catching on regarding our OC's problems. One thing that I would like to throw out there is that the body language of the players is starting to show they are fed up with the offense. Most people assume they are fed up with Geno. It certainly looks though that Geno is fed up with the cornerbacks running the routes with the receivers stride for stride and sometimes better than the receivers themselves. People will say, the fourth read for Geno is open, he should be processing faster. To that, I say, how much time is the line giving him. People keep harping on the turnover worthy throws. They are being made because the routes are being repeated way too often and the corners know where to be.

Also, I have mentioned this before and some others are starting to notice, we are tipping plays. I don't remember which Hurtt interview it was but he was talking to I think KJ and mentioned that defensive coaches are always looking for a tell. A WR who leaves his gloves undone when he knows he will be blocking for a run play. A linemen who puts his hand in a certain spot when he knows he is pass blocking. Someone on our offense has a tell and it was exploited big time against the Ravens. It is up to our coaches to figure it out and correct it.

Great points. Unfortunately your thread turned into yet another Pete Carroll hate fest by others. From my perspective this is on Waldron. Big time fixes needed in the play calling department by Sunday.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Waldron, Geno, O Line, all of it.

 

[LTH]

Do they needed to test some plays against elite competition for all 4 quarters of a game though? At a certain point you've already seen what happened and further testing is unnecessary.

It's not test, it's develope . Its kind of obvious to me if you look at JSN numbers...I believe they had confidence in the game plan and the game just got away from them because they were not executing.

I don't know the specifics of why they didn't adjust. I'm sure there is a reason why we just don't know what it is. I think TOP and opportunity might of played a role but I don't know.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how the Hawks respond schematically from this loss.

Just my take

LTH

 

[LTH]

Do they needed to test some plays against elite competition for all 4 quarters of a game though? At a certain point you've already seen what happened and further testing is unnecessary.

It like one of those things when it works out your a hero and when it doesn't... well your NOT. I'm sure there were other factors involved and I'm sure there were other development areas besides JSN.

LTH

 

[CallMeADawg]

It's not test, it's develope . Its kind of obvious to me if you look at JSN numbers...I believe they had confidence in the game plan and the game just got away from them because they were not executing.

I don't know the specifics of why they didn't adjust. I'm sure there is a reason why we just don't know what it is. I think TOP and opportunity might of played a role but I don't know.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how the Hawks respond schematically from this loss.

Just my take

LTH

Not sure I'd want my OC developing plays in the middle of a game. They have a plan with plays they practice.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Shane

 

[BASF]

Great points. Unfortunately your thread turned into yet another Pete Carroll hate fest by others. From my perspective this is on Waldron. Big time fixes needed in the play calling department by Sunday.

Some people can not see past their dislike of the man. It is honestly comical at this point the mental gymnastics. Keasley made the point better than I could, when we ran too much Pete doesn't want to pass and when we pass too much, Pete doesn't want to run..

Sgt. Largent has the best point in the thread that Waldron wants to build on his plays as the game goes on and I will go one further, as the season goes on. However, he does not have enough variations (I sound like a broken record after saying this so many times after Munich) that great D Coordinators know where his stuff is going. It is why we have so many routes jumped for interceptions and near interceptions.

It is interesting where the thread has gone when I started it specifically about the players losing confidence in Waldron and no one has really mentioned it. Their body language seems to speak volumes.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Yeah their body language and some comments they make from time to time about adjustments. If I were Tyler I would be frustrated going up against DBs that know exactly what play is about to be ran, or knowing that Geno has no chance in hell of having enough time for the route he's about to run to develop. The ball hasn't even been snapped yet and the guys are all in a position to have the highest chance of failure, rather than success.

 

[LTH]

Not sure I'd want my OC developing plays in the middle of a game. They have a plan with plays they practice.

He is NOT developing plays in the middle of the game. It was a plan and they practiced it...it just didn't work out. I'm sure it wasn't All about JSN.... there were other area's they were trying to develope.

It looks like the Hawks feel like JSN needs to be a key part of the O for the offense to be elite. He is a rookie and if they think he is a vital part, they need to develope that concept with in the offense.

the interesting part of it is, let's see how the Hawks react schematically to the loss.


LTH

 

[CallMeADawg]

He is NOT developing plays in the middle of the game. It was a plan and they practiced it...it just didn't work out. I'm sure it wasn't All about JSN.... there were other area's they were trying to develope.

It looks like the Hawks feel like JSN needs to be a key part of the O for the offense to be elite. He is a rookie and if they think he is a vital part, they need to develope that concept with in the offense.

the interesting part of it is, let's see how the Hawks react schematically to the loss.


LTH

Well properly integrating JSN into the offense is a good thing. He's an electric talent that can seriously take over games. But Seattle's problem isn't even about JSNs role. The offense is predictable and too easy for defenders to know exactly what's coming. That's on Shane to fix, regardless of who is on the field. You can have all the awesome weapons you want, if your plays you call are that pathetic, you're going nowhere against legit NFL defensive coordinators.

That Ravens game is on film that I guarantee every team will watch. Shane either fixes it now or we'll look even worse moving forward. There's an opportunity to use the Ravens game as a teaching moment and for Shane to learn a lesson from. We'll see what path he took over the next few games.

 

[LTH]

Some people can not see past their dislike of the man. It is honestly comical at this point the mental gymnastics. Keasley made the point better than I could, when we ran too much Pete doesn't want to pass and when we pass too much, Pete doesn't want to run..

Sgt. Largent has the best point in the thread that Waldron wants to build on his plays as the game goes on and I will go one further, as the season goes on. However, he does not have enough variations (I sound like a broken record after saying this so many times after Munich) that great D Coordinators know where his stuff is going. It is why we have so many routes jumped for interceptions and near interceptions.

It is interesting where the thread has gone when I started it specifically about the players losing confidence in Waldron and no one has really mentioned it. Their body language seems to speak volumes.

Sgt Largent is right in the respect that he does want to build on plays as the game goes on. From what I can see Waldron is setting the D up with plays. Then countering with other plays, but if they can't get a good percentage of 3rd down conversions they never get to the counter plays. That was PART of the problem. The Ravens D played really well in getting in the passing lanes and knocking down passes... that's NOT on Geno it's just great Defense that's what Great D lines do, it great coaching.


LTH

 

[m0ng0]

Waldron must have signed a week to week to contract. Jeebus

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It is interesting where the thread has gone when I started it specifically about the players losing confidence in Waldron and no one has really mentioned it. Their body language seems to speak volumes.

You want this out of your players. You want them to be embarrassed and pissed off when they get punched in the mouth.

It's up to the coaches to channel this negative energy into working harder at practice and galvanizing the locker room to focus and get better.

The good coaches like Pete know how to do this, the bad ones let it all fester and implode their locker rooms.

So I fully expect the Hawks to come out Sunday and finally play like we know they're capable of playing, on both sides of the ball. These next two games IMO are the two most important of the season. Win both and the Hawks should be able to weather the storm that is the Niners, Eagles and Cowboys gauntlet.

Stub their toe this week and/or next? We're in BIG trouble.

 

[RiverDog]

I'm done with throwing offensive and defensive coordinators into the volcano. It's time we start holding our head coach accountable.

 

[cymatica]

So how do you develope the other aspects that they feel are necessary to be successful? Well ....you put together a game plan focusing on those area's and run them against elite competition. Can't really develope them in practice, it needs to be against elite competition to truly know where those aspects of the O land. Then they have a gauge of where they are at and what needs to be fixed. If they just run what they are good at then they never grow the offense to be elite.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. I would think against elite competition, you go with what you're already good at, and sprinkle in the other stuff.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I'm done with throwing offensive and defensive coordinators into the volcano. It's time we start holding our head coach accountable.

He's accountable to get those guys to fix the problems or get them out of town. He's not the source of the problem though, no matter how much you guys scream about it.

 

[LTH]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. I would think against elite competition, you go with what you're already good at, and sprinkle in the other stuff.

I don't know... nobody really knows. It may seem that way, but like the old addage goes when it works out your a hero, when it doesn't work out, not so much.


LTH