Pete is destroying Russell Wilson career

[John63]

It has been said many times what change and adapt means. We all see it every 2nd half of a game were we fall behind. So let stop acting like it has bnpt been made clear.

It hasn't. Not one person has come out and given detailed answers on what specific plays and out of what formations those plays should be run and against what defensive looks we should be running those plays. You can't just say be more aggressive or less conservative. You can't just say stop holding Russell back or let Russell loose. If you're gonna say those things bring some "FOOTBALL" detail along with them or stop pretending to know what you're talking about. There isn't anyone on this forum that doesn't want them to score more points in the 1st half of games. Unless you can have that level of knowledge, STFU about it already.

Yes we have but if it helps I will do it AGAIN

What we are talking about it running an uptempo(meaning changing tempos), quick passing attack with layered routes. Look at the 2nd half of the last game, during the first series alone, we snapped the ball with 10 seconds to go, then with 3 then as soon as we got to the line, Nearly every pass play had an outlet, a guy short, a guy intermediate, and a guy long. As opposed to what we normally see snapping with 3 or less left, lots of everyone going long, heck the announcers said it during the game.

PC has said he uses the first half to test the Defense. Well why, if you have done your film review and made a game plan around what the defense cant do or give sup there should be no testing. Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing, You want test the defense fine but don't take a whole half to do it. I can go on but you get what I am saying.

You are having an absolute mare...

???

 

[Uncle Si]

Your arguing in positions you clearly do not know enough about, all in an effort to turn your need for blame in a loss on one person to absolve your favorite player. A player that literally noone else is blaming.

You've tried the O-line, play calling, route trees, snap times, etc., etc. without a hint of irony in your own contradictions.

 

[AgentDib]

Look at the 2nd half of the last game, during the first series alone, we snapped the ball with 10 seconds to go, then with 3 then as soon as we got to the line

I have no interest in the main discussion here but you should know that there are pros and cons to taking time at the line of scrimmage. Ideally, this is when a savvy veteran QB will be able to diagnose the defense. We send people in motion during this time to help Russ distinguish between zone and man coverage. There is a lot of information to be processed in this ~20 second window.

Russ does a nice job in the hurry up but it's a bit of a backhanded compliment to say that you think things should always be up tempo. Surely I don't need to list plays for you when Russ spent the entire play clock reading the defense and then found the perfect target as a result? I could also list times when we didn't use the whole play clock and had an immediate protection gaffe that should have been solved with more time.

If you have time and NFL GamePass I recommend watching Brees specifically in the Saints/Bears game last October. Brees put on a clinic for how to manage the line of scrimmage against a very good defense. As Wilson ages this is a skill that he will continue to improve in and if he is in the league at age 40+ it will be because of experience and smarts more than his improvisational and mobility talent which will fade with age.

 

[John63]

Your arguing in positions you clearly do not know enough about, all in an effort to turn your need for blame in a loss on one person to absolve your favorite player. A player that literally noone else is blaming.

You've tried the O-line, play calling, route trees, snap times, etc., etc. without a hint of irony in your own contradictions.

Don't act like you know what I am thinking you don't, in fact you don't know crap about me. So don't try to act like you do. I have a right to my opinion like anyone else, but in no way think you know me well enough to tell me what I am thinking or why I am doing what I do.

 

[John63]

Look at the 2nd half of the last game, during the first series alone, we snapped the ball with 10 seconds to go, then with 3 then as soon as we got to the line

I have no interest in the main discussion here but you should know that there are pros and cons to taking time at the line of scrimmage. Ideally, this is when a savvy veteran QB will be able to diagnose the defense. We send people in motion during this time to help Russ distinguish between zone and man coverage. There is a lot of information to be processed in this ~20 second window.

Russ does a nice job in the hurry up but it's a bit of a backhanded compliment to say that you think things should always be up tempo. Surely I don't need to list plays for you when Russ spent the entire play clock reading the defense and then found the perfect target as a result? I could also list times when we didn't use the whole play clock and had an immediate protection gaffe that should have been solved with more time.

If you have time and NFL GamePass I recommend watching Brees specifically in the Saints/Bears game last October. Brees put on a clinic for how to manage the line of scrimmage against a very good defense. As Wilson ages this is a skill that he will continue to improve in and if he is in the league at age 40+ it will be because of experience and smarts more than his improvisational and mobility talent which will fade with age.

again when we go uptempo, meaning changing tempo we move the ball at will and score at will. So lets see it works so maybe we should or use it for a whole game and see what happens. Oh wait we have and we destroyed see the Pitt game 2015.

 

[AgentDib]

again when we go uptempo, meaning changing tempo we move the ball at will and score at will. So lets see it works so maybe we should or use it for a whole game and see what happens. Oh wait we have and we destroyed see the Pitt game 2015.

You're entitled to your own opinion but you should also know that changing tempo and up tempo are not the same thing. A three second differential in the remaining snap clock is more than enough to keep the opposing pass rushers from timing the snap. Changing tempo beyond that can be beneficial in keeping the opposing defense off balance but it can also disrupt the rhythm of your own offense. There is a trade-off between 20s at the line and 3s at the line as I described previously.

 

[BASF]

What we are talking about it running an uptempo(meaning changing tempos), quick passing attack with layered routes. Look at the 2nd half of the last game, during the first series alone, we snapped the ball with 10 seconds to go, then with 3 then as soon as we got to the line, Nearly every pass play had an outlet, a guy short, a guy intermediate, and a guy long. As opposed to what we normally see snapping with 3 or less left, lots of everyone going long, heck the announcers said it during the game.

PC has said he uses the first half to test the Defense. Well why, if you have done your film review and made a game plan around what the defense cant do or give sup there should be no testing. Yet just in the last game alone we ran or tried to run right up the gut how many times? to the tune of basically nothing, You want test the defense fine but don't take a whole half to do it. I can go on but you get what I am saying.

Finally something that isn't just hyperbole. Now tell me how many teams have actually won a Super Bowl with the offensive game plan that you are advocating. Now tell me how many teams have even made the Super Bowl with the offensive game plan that you are advocating. The only ones I can think of was the Wyche Bengals for one season, one season the cheater in charge of the Patriots ran the gimmicks that you are talking about.

I get the fact that you all are frustrated. Most of us are, but the thing that none of you have even bothered to bring up is that the defense is the one that is allowing these teams to score multiple touchdowns in the second quarter. The fact is that the defense is the same scheme and the teams that have two weeks to prepare for the players running it and how to attack their tendencies is what is costing us these divisional games.

Which leads me directly into my biggest beef with Carroll and the reason why we have been on the road for two of those three divisional games, not preparing for the Cardinals to be playing us like it is their Super Bowl. As much as Pete talks about going 1-0 every week and every game should be treated like it is a championship game, the team constantly plays like the Cardinals are a team that does not matter and will not play to the best of their ability when they play us. Losing to the Cardinals affected our seeding in each of the seasons that we lost the divisional game. If Pete would just prepare the team for the Cardinals coming out like it is their game of the year, we improve our seeding and get better matchups (the loss to the Cardinals this season essentially cost us the shot at the number one seed).

 

[BASF]

Russell Wilson's offensive lines ranked in pass pro throughout his career, per PFF:

2012: 22nd
2013: 30th
2014: 26th
2015: 30th
2016: 32nd
2017: 30th
2018: 18th
2019: 30th


Pete Carroll's Seahawks have been outscored 113-13 in the first halves of the 5 road divisional playoff games.

there is such a thing as succeeding despite something or someone.

The offensive line ranks are directly a result of John Schneider, not Pete Carroll.

 

[Uncle Si]

Your arguing in positions you clearly do not know enough about, all in an effort to turn your need for blame in a loss on one person to absolve your favorite player. A player that literally noone else is blaming.

You've tried the O-line, play calling, route trees, snap times, etc., etc. without a hint of irony in your own contradictions.

Don't act like you know what I am thinking you don't, in fact you don't know crap about me. So don't try to act like you do. I have a right to my opinion like anyone else, but in no way think you know me well enough to tell me what I am thinking or why I am doing what I do.

You're taking this personal?

Don't be daft. I'm talking about your opinion, which you have dumped into multiple threads. This isn't some hidden agenda.. you've literally said these things in post after post.

While you're allowed your opinion, as is everyone else allowed to criticize it.

 

[Uncle Si]

Russell Wilson's offensive lines ranked in pass pro throughout his career, per PFF:

2012: 22nd
2013: 30th
2014: 26th
2015: 30th
2016: 32nd
2017: 30th
2018: 18th
2019: 30th


Pete Carroll's Seahawks have been outscored 113-13 in the first halves of the 5 road divisional playoff games.

there is such a thing as succeeding despite something or someone.

The offensive line ranks are directly a result of John Schneider, not Pete Carroll.

It's also the same OL that plays the 2nd half of the games

 

[John63]

Russell Wilson's offensive lines ranked in pass pro throughout his career, per PFF:

2012: 22nd
2013: 30th
2014: 26th
2015: 30th
2016: 32nd
2017: 30th
2018: 18th
2019: 30th


Pete Carroll's Seahawks have been outscored 113-13 in the first halves of the 5 road divisional playoff games.

there is such a thing as succeeding despite something or someone.

The offensive line ranks are directly a result of John Schneider, not Pete Carroll.

It's also the same OL that plays the 2nd half of the games

yes but using a different system that does not allow the defense to tee, off, a system that provides check downs, and quick passing. Which is my point, we work at our best when we go uptempo/changing tempo, instead of the wait till the last second and go, or run and throw long all the time.

 

[John63]

Your arguing in positions you clearly do not know enough about, all in an effort to turn your need for blame in a loss on one person to absolve your favorite player. A player that literally noone else is blaming.

You've tried the O-line, play calling, route trees, snap times, etc., etc. without a hint of irony in your own contradictions.

Don't act like you know what I am thinking you don't, in fact you don't know crap about me. So don't try to act like you do. I have a right to my opinion like anyone else, but in no way think you know me well enough to tell me what I am thinking or why I am doing what I do.

You're taking this personal?

Don't be daft. I'm talking about your opinion, which you have dumped into multiple threads. This isn't some hidden agenda.. you've literally said these things in post after post.

While you're allowed your opinion, as is everyone else allowed to criticize it.

I felt that what you wrote and the way you wrote it was personal. If I misunderstood my apologies.

 

[John63]

Look the reality is we move the ball better in the 2nd half. We do it, because we us ea different system, We use uptmepo.changing tempo, we always have check downs, we layer routes. By not doing it the whole game PC is indeed impacting not just Wilsons career but the whole team. I know he wants to run and throw long and take time off the clock. That is great when you have a great run blocking oline, and a great defense. We have neither. So why not simply use what works.

again "the mark of a good coach is a coach who creates a system around the players he has" Paraphrase from Vince Lombardi.

NE is almost always good because they do that. At one point NE was Wr focused they had Moss and others. Then they moved more TE focused they had 2 great ones, Then they went more run focused. They change to suite what they have.

We know what we can do when we go uptmepo/change. IT suites what we have not just Wilson but the oline, they don't have to hold the block as long, the defense does nto know when it will be snapped, so they don't get a good start etc etc.

Thats my point.

 

[Uncle Si]

Russell Wilson's offensive lines ranked in pass pro throughout his career, per PFF:

2012: 22nd
2013: 30th
2014: 26th
2015: 30th
2016: 32nd
2017: 30th
2018: 18th
2019: 30th


Pete Carroll's Seahawks have been outscored 113-13 in the first halves of the 5 road divisional playoff games.

there is such a thing as succeeding despite something or someone.

The offensive line ranks are directly a result of John Schneider, not Pete Carroll.

It's also the same OL that plays the 2nd half of the games

yes but using a different system that does not allow the defense to tee, off, a system that provides check downs, and quick passing. Which is my point, we work at our best when we go uptempo/changing tempo, instead of the wait till the last second and go, or run and throw long all the time.

I think it's assumptive to extrapolate the successes of the 2nd half to the first half without taking into account the 1st half gsmeplan... there is clearly a process.

What if the 2nd half game plan just doesn't come off as well in the first half, and the 2nd half is now dead?

I think the biggest issue is how to better manage the first half.

 

[John63]

The offensive line ranks are directly a result of John Schneider, not Pete Carroll.

It's also the same OL that plays the 2nd half of the games

yes but using a different system that does not allow the defense to tee, off, a system that provides check downs, and quick passing. Which is my point, we work at our best when we go uptempo/changing tempo, instead of the wait till the last second and go, or run and throw long all the time.

I think it's assumptive to extrapolate the successes of the 2nd half to the first half without taking into account the 1st half gsmeplan... there is clearly a process.

What if the 2nd half game plan just doesn't come off as well in the first half, and the 2nd half is now dead?

I think the biggest issue is how to better manage the first half.

What if it worked as well In the 1st as the 2nd. Given the issue why not try?

 

[BASF]

yes but using a different system that does not allow the defense to tee, off, a system that provides check downs, and quick passing. Which is my point, we work at our best when we go uptempo/changing tempo, instead of the wait till the last second and go, or run and throw long all the time.

I think it's assumptive to extrapolate the successes of the 2nd half to the first half without taking into account the 1st half gsmeplan... there is clearly a process.

What if the 2nd half game plan just doesn't come off as well in the first half, and the 2nd half is now dead?

I think the biggest issue is how to better manage the first half.

It is also glossing over the fact that the defense we are facing is now allowing things short and intermediate to not allow the big play to score quickly. Allowing teams to complete dink and dunk passes burns clock getting them closer to a win. We do it ourselves much to the consternation of this board.

 

[John63]

yes but using a different system that does not allow the defense to tee, off, a system that provides check downs, and quick passing. Which is my point, we work at our best when we go uptempo/changing tempo, instead of the wait till the last second and go, or run and throw long all the time.

I think it's assumptive to extrapolate the successes of the 2nd half to the first half without taking into account the 1st half gsmeplan... there is clearly a process.

What if the 2nd half game plan just doesn't come off as well in the first half, and the 2nd half is now dead?

I think the biggest issue is how to better manage the first half.

It is also glossing over the fact that the defense we are facing is now allowing things short and intermediate to not allow the big play to score quickly. Allowing teams to complete dink and dunk passes burns clock getting them closer to a win. We do it ourselves much to the consternation of this board.

and again why not try and see. We know what we are doing is not working, so why not try?

 

[Hawkpower]

We are mediocre, we got into the playoffs because of RW and without him we would be lucky to win seven games this season.

That's not how this works. Russell Wilson is part of the team and plays here. This team likely would miss the playoffs without him, but you don't get to discount his body of work because he's so crucial. He is part of the Seahawks. The Seahawks have not been mediocre largely because of him.

You aren't mediocre when you make 7 out of 10 divisional games, two Super Bowls, and win one. If you are, then every team except the Patriots is mediocre over the last decade.

Were the Patriots "mediocre" between 2005 and 2013? They lost two Super Bowls, they missed the playoffs once, they lost two wild card games, a divisional game, and three AFC championships.

This IS a middle-of-the-road team w/o RW, if you cannot see that you just don't know squat about football.

Going back 7-8 years doesn't prove anything, I am talking about right now.

Jesus.

Of course, if we didnt have Russ, we'd have a large sum of money that may be distributed to some high quality players.

But back to the original point, every team in the NFL that has a franchise QB would be significantly worse without him. Horrible take.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The Seahawks have devolved into a redundant predictable team.

PC blew a SB with horrible game-time decision making. Then, he blew a NFC West championship by not even realizing there is a game clock. Really?

If that weren't enough, you just watched 2019 Dallas playoff game 2.0. You people can't see that?

The Seahawks are: Ground Hog Day, (all over again, lol)

:stirthepot:

Throwing the ball 70% of the time, essentially from the outset, is the Dallas game 2.0?

Tical, I know you're smarter than this. You know damn well we are way more predictable on offense for opposing defenses to read and react to in the first halves of games than the second halves.

 

[Hawkpower]

The Seahawks have devolved into a redundant predictable team.

PC blew a SB with horrible game-time decision making. Then, he blew a NFC West championship by not even realizing there is a game clock. Really?

If that weren't enough, you just watched 2019 Dallas playoff game 2.0. You people can't see that?

The Seahawks are: Ground Hog Day, (all over again, lol)

:stirthepot:

Throwing the ball 70% of the time, essentially from the outset, is the Dallas game 2.0?

Tical, I know you're smarter than this. You know damn well we are way more predictable on offense for opposing defenses to read and react to in the first halves of games than the second halves.

The narrative was that they were too consersvative in the first half.

Throwing it 70% of the time isnt too conservative.