Ongoing RB Preseason Thread

[Sgt. Largent]

If I were to take every rb on the roster and make a depth chart order, right now per this preseason productivity, it would look like this -

1) Carson
2) Collins
3) Davis
4) McKissic
5) Lacy
6) Rawls (minor injury)
7) Prosise (minor injury)

Lacy has been a huge disappointment, he's healthy and has no burst. He's running mediocre, definitely not like he was as a rookie or when he was at Alabama. The pro game seems to have caught up and overtaken him. He needs to lose about 15-20 pounds more and get a burst in the process. Rawls and Prosise can't stay healthy to show anything. Carson, Collins, and Davis have done well for the most part.

Lynch never looked particularly good in the preseason either.

I agree Lacy hasn't overwhelmed us, but neither has anybody else really. The run game's been average at best.

He's the kind of back that needs 20 touches a game to wear a defense down.

The question isn't has Lacy impressed in pre-season, the question for me is do we give him 4-5 games with the majority of touches to see if he can produce? I'm not sure sure about that, not with 2-3 other backs ready to step up.

 

[hawkfan68]

If I were to take every rb on the roster and make a depth chart order, right now per this preseason productivity, it would look like this -

1) Carson
2) Collins
3) Davis
4) McKissic
5) Lacy
6) Rawls (minor injury)
7) Prosise (minor injury)

Lacy has been a huge disappointment, he's healthy and has no burst. He's running mediocre, definitely not like he was as a rookie or when he was at Alabama. The pro game seems to have caught up and overtaken him. He needs to lose about 15-20 pounds more and get a burst in the process. Rawls and Prosise can't stay healthy to show anything. Carson, Collins, and Davis have done well for the most part.

Lynch never looked particularly good in the preseason either.

I agree Lacy hasn't overwhelmed us, but neither has anybody else really. The run game's been average at best.

He's the kind of back that needs 20 touches a game to wear a defense down.

The question isn't has Lacy impressed in pre-season, the question for me is do we give him 4-5 games with the majority of touches to see if he can produce? I'm not sure sure about that, not with 2-3 other backs ready to step up.

True. Lynch didn't look good in preseason but he had a history of showing up during the season in a Seahawk uniform. So it was easy to measure how he looked in the offense. Lacy doesn't. It's important he show something in the preseason since it's a new team and he's preparing for the upcoming season. I'm not seeing that during the games with him. Plus he's awfully slow with little or no burst. No amount of increase in carries will change that.

 

[DJrmb]

If I were to take every rb on the roster and make a depth chart order, right now per this preseason productivity, it would look like this -

1) Carson
2) Collins
3) Davis
4) McKissic
5) Lacy
6) Rawls (minor injury)
7) Prosise (minor injury)

Lacy has been a huge disappointment, he's healthy and has no burst. He's running mediocre, definitely not like he was as a rookie or when he was at Alabama. The pro game seems to have caught up and overtaken him. He needs to lose about 15-20 pounds more and get a burst in the process. Rawls and Prosise can't stay healthy to show anything. Carson, Collins, and Davis have done well for the most part.

Lynch never looked particularly good in the preseason either.

I agree Lacy hasn't overwhelmed us, but neither has anybody else really. The run game's been average at best.

He's the kind of back that needs 20 touches a game to wear a defense down.

The question isn't has Lacy impressed in pre-season, the question for me is do we give him 4-5 games with the majority of touches to see if he can produce? I'm not sure sure about that, not with 2-3 other backs ready to step up.

True. Lynch didn't look good in preseason but he had a history of showing up during the season in a Seahawk uniform. So it was easy to measure how he looked in the offense. Lacy doesn't. It's important he show something in the preseason since it's a new team and he's preparing for the upcoming season. I'm not seeing that during the games with him. Plus he's awfully slow with little or no burst. No amount of increase in carries will change that.

People are saying similar things about Blount in Philly however his coaches keep saying he's going to have a big role in the regular season. Sometimes you just have to trust the coaching staff on things we can't see in the preseason.

Eagles coach Doug Pederson said LeGarrette Blount will be "a big part of our offense."
"The guy's a beast of a runner," the coach added. Despite preseason struggles, reported "weight issues," and rumblings about his roster spot, it looks like the coach plans to enter the season with Blount as his starter and short-yardage back. Perhaps that changes if Wendell Smallwood shows well coming off an injury this week, but Blount remains the best fantasy bet for now. Aug 22 - 12:26 PM

http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5854/legarrette-blount

Also Lacy is making more than all of the other RB's combined. It's not like he's in any danger of getting cut. He has nothing to show or prove in the preseason other than that he can stay healthy. I know as fans we don't want to hear that but the FO has already committed to him with their money for this season.

 

[ACFan]

Your best shot is injury like last year.

Not the only chance, but maybe the best, I won't disagree.

I'll just phrase it another way:

When the dust settles the best players will be left standing, with the test of durability being part of the dust
that settles.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

True. Lynch didn't look good in preseason but he had a history of showing up during the season in a Seahawk uniform. So it was easy to measure how he looked in the offense. Lacy doesn't. It's important he show something in the preseason since it's a new team and he's preparing for the upcoming season. I'm not seeing that during the games with him. Plus he's awfully slow with little or no burst. No amount of increase in carries will change that.

But that's my point, Lacy isn't going to impress with only a handful of carries in the first quarter of a pre-season game, he's not that kind of flashy back that can rip one off for 50 yards.......he needs his 20-25 carries a game to wear a defense down with physical punishing style of running.

I honestly don't know if Pete's going to have that kind of patience with Lacy and this line. We don't have 4-5 weeks to keep plugging him in there hoping the line and Lacy come together. So it'll be interesting to see what Pete does.

 

[hawkfan68]

True. Lynch didn't look good in preseason but he had a history of showing up during the season in a Seahawk uniform. So it was easy to measure how he looked in the offense. Lacy doesn't. It's important he show something in the preseason since it's a new team and he's preparing for the upcoming season. I'm not seeing that during the games with him. Plus he's awfully slow with little or no burst. No amount of increase in carries will change that.

But that's my point, Lacy isn't going to impress with only a handful of carries in the first quarter of a pre-season game, he's not that kind of flashy back that can rip one off for 50 yards.......he needs his 20-25 carries a game to wear a defense down with physical punishing style of running.

I honestly don't know if Pete's going to have that kind of patience with Lacy and this line. We don't have 4-5 weeks to keep plugging him in there hoping the line and Lacy come together. So it'll be interesting to see what Pete does.

Lacy won't be getting 20-25 carries per game. Even Marshawn Lynch didn't get that many. Marshawn's highest carries per single season was 315. That's under 20 carries per game (avg). Of course they could adjust the offense but with Rawls, Prosise, Wilson also getting plays, and Wilson growing as a passer, the probability of Lacy or anyone else getting 20+ carries is very slim. If he's the type of back that needs 20-25 carries to be productive, he may not be a fit. There's no need to keep him if he's not a fit.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Again, I don't think Rawls' or Prosise's issues are that big at the moment. They get the time off now because 1) an abundance of caution, 2) they can afford it, 3) because they're at a deep position and the coaches want to evaluate other guys. If yesterday was a playoff game, they play.

Pete said they had a big roll planned for Prosise but then he had a problem in warm ups. This isn't a matter of the team just wanting to see the other backs play its a matter of an always injured player.
Some guys like playing football and will do whatever they can to do so and help their team. Some guys do not love the game of football and consequently only play when they are feeling absolutely perfect ala Percy Harvin.

Oh, so we're accusing CJ Prosise of being another Percy Harvin now?

Congratulations, I do believe you and ACFan are the first to make that claim. At least I haven't heard that anywhere else. It will be interesting to see the direction this conversation now takes.

I do not think he has Harvins attitude problems as I have never heard anything of that sort here or in college that I'm aware of.
However I stand by my statement that some play because they love this game and will do whatever it is they can to be out there. Others play simply because of money, talent, applause, what have you, but do not have a real driving force to be out there and consequently are often not out there.

That...was Harvin's attitude problem.

Are you saying that Prosise has it, or aren't you?

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I think the team will keep Lacy.

But there's something that I'm wondering about. Especially given the two unrelated to Lacy factors:

1. Tightness against the cap
2. Showing of Chris Carson

Lacy is a player that fits Seattle's style. And I expect Seattle will covet that. Particularly given Rawls' injury history. Our determination to not have a repeat of 2016 at the RB position. Those things prompted us to sign Lacy.

Fast forward to the middle of the preseason. I would be absolutely shocked if Carson doesn't make this team. And I'd be equally surprised if he wasn't dressed on week 1. Depending on how Seattle views Carson as a hedge for Rawls should he be unavailable -- I have to wonder what would be preferable from a big picture roster standpoint:

1. Lacy, Rawls, Procise, Carson

or

2. Rawls, Carson, Procise, Collins

Collins is a player of sufficient quality at RB4. Where I think the considerations lie, is can Carson be a RB2? Usually rookies end up down on the depth charts because they can't do the ancillary things like pass pro. But Carson has been lauded for that ability. Collins likewise performed well at that role and looks to be improving as a pass down option in lieu of Procise who's been unavailable.

Seattle would recoup significant cap dollars by cutting Lacy (~2.8M). He's one of the very few contracts that actually can be cut and clear space. Seattle is deep at RB. Is Lacy + Rawls better than Rawls + Carson + 2.8M in cap space (to maybe help to allow for adding an OL contract)?

The OL situation seems kind of dire. Collins as a #4 back is not a bad situation to be in. Is Carson ready to take a #2 RB role with the very real chance he could be the bellcow back?

Merits watching. At this point the position groups of strength/depth on this team is RB/WR/CB. There aren't a lot of cuts in the WR/CB groups that will lift cap strain. Seattle is a team with a well earned reputation for making surprise moves on cut day. I could see at least Lacy's position on the final roster as circumstantially tenuous based on need at OL.

 

[chris98251]

It would all depend on the truthfulness of Pete concerning the run game, he stated they were to dependent on the passing attack and they need to get more run focus. If Lacy is in their plans he and Carson would be the type of backs that would get those 20 carries a game with Rawls being a change of pace back and if Prosise can find a health factor be the third down guy. Nice thing about Carson and Lacy, both catch the ball well so give them both the every down back look and the third down back that can catch look without tipping plays. Collins come into play as a pure workman type back on normal downs, probably not going to excite you much, on third downs he also shown he can flare out of the back field but isn't going to break away for a big gain more then likely, purely a move the chains guy. This is where Davis may upset the apple cart as well, he has some burst and can catch, Pete liked him out of college as well.

Lacy has not shown the explosiveness in any form to date here, ankles can take that away, but time is beginning to run short. He would need a clean bill of health also to be of any trade value and show something that would make his market value worth a trade for other teams, he has not done that yet and his reputation is baggage at this point as well.

 

[ACFan]

Collins come into play as a pure workman type back on normal downs, probably not going to excite you much, on third downs he also shown he can flare out of the back field but isn't going to break away for a big gain more then likely, purely a move the chains guy.

The knock on Collins by many is "he doesn't do any one thing very well" and as you say "not going to excite you much".

I understand that perception amongst everything there is to analyse, but there is actually a good bit of evidence of something he has always done well since being here. Taking a short pass and getting 5-10+ YAC.

That doesn't sound like much, but it's the biggest job a 3rd down back has, and it's not easy, taking a short pass, with defenders between you and the first down marker. If you can get past them, the drive stays alive, if not, the drive is over, it's a HUGE job. AC is very, very adept at it, and that showed up immediately.

He may be struggling to get to the 2nd level as a runner right now (like everyone else when plays aren't well blocked) but once in the 2nd level, he can be slippery as heck. A short pass automatically puts him in the 2nd level.

Someone made a gif last year of him in a preseason game, caught a short pass near the sideline, with 5 defenders in the general vicinity and closing, AC slipped past every one of them for an additional 7 yards.

We've heard a lot of camp reports of him making incredible plays in the passing game this preseason.

Even posters who aren't big AC fans recognize it.

Collins - Juked an initial defender on one catch, ......... He is deemed "Happy Feet" according to a Kam interview last week talking about how he can juke you.

Saw it in PS2 last week, on 3rd and 15, caught a 6 yard pass with 4 defenders close by, got and additional 6 yards, the ball and his helmet getting past every one.

Eventually, those plays won't always just be nice moves for 1st downs, increase the sample size and he can have some big plays of his own.

To those who would say "he doesn't do any one thing very well" and "not going to excite you much". I say patience, the potential is there.

This is where Davis may upset the apple cart as well, he has some burst and can catch, Pete liked him out of college as well.

I like that he is a veteran, doesn't have any real weaknesses in his game (like AC) and seems pretty durable.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Collins come into play as a pure workman type back on normal downs, probably not going to excite you much, on third downs he also shown he can flare out of the back field but isn't going to break away for a big gain more then likely, purely a move the chains guy.

The knock on Collins by many is "he doesn't do any one thing very well" and as you say "not going to excite you much".

I understand that perception amongst everything there is to analyse, but there is actually a good bit of evidence of something he has always done well since being here. Taking a short pass and getting 5-10+ YAC.

But then you have to ask whether he's the only RB currently on this roster who can do that.

I just think Collins ends up being a victim of depth. You could also speculate whether the depth came here precisely because they weren't enamored with Collins. In whatever regard, he likely ends up as an RB2 on some other team with a more stable RB1 situation.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

True. Lynch didn't look good in preseason but he had a history of showing up during the season in a Seahawk uniform. So it was easy to measure how he looked in the offense. Lacy doesn't. It's important he show something in the preseason since it's a new team and he's preparing for the upcoming season. I'm not seeing that during the games with him. Plus he's awfully slow with little or no burst. No amount of increase in carries will change that.

But that's my point, Lacy isn't going to impress with only a handful of carries in the first quarter of a pre-season game, he's not that kind of flashy back that can rip one off for 50 yards.......he needs his 20-25 carries a game to wear a defense down with physical punishing style of running.

I honestly don't know if Pete's going to have that kind of patience with Lacy and this line. We don't have 4-5 weeks to keep plugging him in there hoping the line and Lacy come together. So it'll be interesting to see what Pete does.

Lacy won't be getting 20-25 carries per game. Even Marshawn Lynch didn't get that many. Marshawn's highest carries per single season was 315. That's under 20 carries per game (avg). Of course they could adjust the offense but with Rawls, Prosise, Wilson also getting plays, and Wilson growing as a passer, the probability of Lacy or anyone else getting 20+ carries is very slim. If he's the type of back that needs 20-25 carries to be productive, he may not be a fit. There's no need to keep him if he's not a fit.

Then I don't see Lacy working out just getting 3-4 series a game splitting time with Rawls/Carson and Prosise as our 3rd down back.

It's why he didn't work out in GB. I know everyone got on him for his weight, but IMO an even bigger factor was Rodgers ditching the run game and wanting to throw it 50 times a game. You can't hand it to a back like Lacy 10 times a game and expect results. Like Lynch, he needs his carries to wear a defense down.

 

[ACFan]

Collins come into play as a pure workman type back on normal downs, probably not going to excite you much, on third downs he also shown he can flare out of the back field but isn't going to break away for a big gain more then likely, purely a move the chains guy.

The knock on Collins by many is "he doesn't do any one thing very well" and as you say "not going to excite you much".

I understand that perception amongst everything there is to analyse, but there is actually a good bit of evidence of something he has always done well since being here. Taking a short pass and getting 5-10+ YAC.

But then you have to ask whether he's the only RB currently on this roster who can do that.

I just think Collins ends up being a victim of depth. You could also speculate whether the depth came here precisely because they weren't enamored with Collins. In whatever regard, he likely ends up as an RB2 on some other team with a more stable RB1 situation.

I'm sure AC is not the only one who can do that, but after Prosise, is probably the best at it. Collins has been the one the coaches have looked to for that kind of work, in camp and PS, by a pretty heavy margin with CJ out. They can't be displeased with the results so far.

I'll clarify "after Prosise", I actually think in pass protecting, and doing the gritty work of getting 6 YAC in a crowd, Collins is better at it than CJ. But CJ has the added element of the "mismatch" everyone covets so.

Then the uber-reliabilty of Collins, versus the questionable durability of CJ.

Really makes it about a toss up in my mind. Collins really needs to make a statement tomorrow night to claim a spot, I hope things are set up for him to have a chance to do so.

I'd love to see him take one of those short passes for 40+, I think he is capable, and is due a big play.

I hope CJ can take the field and compete.

 

[bigskydoc]

...That doesn't sound like much, but it's the biggest job a 3rd down back has, and it's not easy, taking a short pass, with defenders between you and the first down marker. If you can get past them, the drive stays alive, if not, the drive is over, it's a HUGE job. AC is very, very adept at it, and that showed up immediately..

To me that's the rub against him. He doesn't get to that 1st down mark when he should. At least three times, off the top of my head, he's been in the situation where he needs just a few yards to get the first, and he had an easy path to it. Instead of taking the easy yards, he has done something boneheaded and come up short (unsuccessfully danced to juke the defender once, unsuccessfully plowed straight into the defender twice).

Still, I think the combination of his availability, cost, and reasonable talent will keep him around.

At this point, I think either Lacy or Rawls is getting cut at the deadline (barring a season ender to one of the backs). Neither has real trade value. Lacy has a juicy amount of recoverable cap space, and Rawls has durability issues. Both will probably be too expensive to keep next year. I think they both need to be the bell cow with a ton of carries to maximize their success.

At this point, I think it's going to be

Either Lacy or Rawls
Carson
Prosise
Collins

 

[Seymour]

...That doesn't sound like much, but it's the biggest job a 3rd down back has, and it's not easy, taking a short pass, with defenders between you and the first down marker. If you can get past them, the drive stays alive, if not, the drive is over, it's a HUGE job. AC is very, very adept at it, and that showed up immediately..

To me that's the rub against him. He doesn't get to that 1st down mark when he should. At least three times, off the top of my head, he's been in the situation where he needs just a few yards to get the first, and he had an easy path to it. Instead of taking the easy yards, he has done something boneheaded and come up short (unsuccessfully danced to juke the defender once, unsuccessfully plowed straight into the defender twice).

Still, I think the combination of his availability, cost, and reasonable talent will keep him around.

At this point, I think either Lacy or Rawls is getting cut at the deadline (barring a season ender to one of the backs). Neither has real trade value. Lacy has a juicy amount of recoverable cap space, and Rawls has durability issues. Both will probably be too expensive to keep next year. I think they both need to be the bell cow with a ton of carries to maximize their success.

At this point, I think it's going to be

Either Lacy or Rawls
Carson
Prosise
Collins

I don't get it? You state Collins shortcomings, then say he stays and Lacy or Rawls is cut? Dang, that is a stretch. Rawls isn't getting cut, and Lacy they only save $1.4M and eat almost $3M to cut him. Seriously doubt either gets cut.

 

[bigskydoc]

Read stanza two. Despite his shortcomings, I think his combination of price, availability, and reasonable skill overcomes the, sometimes, boneheaded things he occasionally does.

I generally agree with AC Fan's analysis of Collin's game, I just disagree with the idea that he has a knack for getting 3 yards when you need 3 yards for the first down.

I think we will cut either Rawls, or Lacy because neither are likely to be here next year, and both play a similar role in the game. Namely the first string, bell cow back. I just don't see the running game flourishing with two guys, who need their carries to be successful, competing for carries. Collins, on the other hand, will do fine in the third/ fourth string role, coming in to spell the primary backs, or stepping up when there is an injury.

Prosise has his own, special role, and isn't going anywhere.

Carson may only be a preseason wonder, but he has certainly earned a spot on the active roster, and a shot at the regular season as the second string back.

I don't see us keeping 5 backs on the active roster, so I think the competition is between Lacy, Rawls, and Collins. I just think Collins combination of minimal cost, durability, and ability to produce from the backup role, will be enough to displace one of the guys who need to be the feature back.

Of course, all of this goes out the window if any of the backs are placed on IR. In that case, we will obviously keep the other 4.

 

[bigskydoc]

I get the feeling that if we cut Collins, he will end up a Patriot, and we will regret it. Carson would probably land with either Minnesota, Green Bay, or Baltimore. Unless he is just a pre-season wonder, we would live to regret it.


We may regret cutting Lacy or Rawls, but somebody needs to be cut, and we are losing one or both next year anyway.

 

[jammerhawk]

An embarrassment of riches at the position.

 

[vin.couve12]

Happy feet will very easily make it to the practice squad, but we really should be looking at a more talented player for that.

 

[bigskydoc]

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