Norwood's injury (now being reported as a bone spur)

[hawkfan68]

At this point, I'm not sure Norwood is a lock to make the top 53. Bates seems to have opened some eyes. Lockette is a great special teams player. It may be a case of stashing him for next year by putting him on IR.

 

[mjwhitay]

Why do people still respond to Tokadub's posts as if they're serious?

This. X 10000000

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

John Clayton is wrong again...

 

[Jville]

"It was a real nagging situation that we just didn't want him to try and tough it out," Carroll said. "He could tough it out - he has in the past. We want to try and fix him and get him right. We think it will be a very quick recovery and he could make it back by the end of (pre-season). We'll have to wait and see how it works out. We're glad to fix him the guy has been playing with a lot of pain he just sucks it up and goes through, but we figured out how to help him."

[urltargetblank]http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/8/6/5975871/kevin-norwood-injury-seahawks-nfl-preseason[/urltargetblank]

 

[DavidSeven]

The real interesting question will be whether the team thinks he's shown enough to warrant a Final 53 spot. What if Lockette and Bates blow up in the preseason? Could you then justify cutting one of them to hold a spot for a 4th round WR who didn't play or practice?

My hunch is he makes the team, but things are going to get interesting if some dark-horses really shine in pre-season (e.g. Stephen Williams last year).

 

[scutterhawk]

"It was a real nagging situation that we just didn't want him to try and tough it out," Carroll said. "He could tough it out - he has in the past. We want to try and fix him and get him right. We think it will be a very quick recovery and he could make it back by the end of (pre-season). We'll have to wait and see how it works out. We're glad to fix him the guy has been playing with a lot of pain he just sucks it up and goes through, but we figured out how to help him."

[urltargetblank]http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/8/6/5975871/kevin-norwood-injury-seahawks-nfl-preseason[/urltargetblank]

Down a different avenue here.
I'm curious if this pain remover will make him just a little faster.
Kam says that he feels like he will be able to take it up another notch after his surgery BOOM!!!...MIND BLOWN !!!!

 

[seedhawk]

Situations like this are the perfect example of why the NFL needs to change it's rules regarding injured players. The league needs a 15 or 30 day disabled list. Player stays with the team, no waivers etc. You can then fill their roster spot with another player for the short term duration. At the end of the either 15 or 30 day window they either go back to the active roster, get released, or to IR.

 

[Seafan]

Situations like this are the perfect example of why the NFL needs to change it's rules regarding injured players. The league needs a 15 or 30 day disabled list. Player stays with the team, no waivers etc. You can then fill their roster spot with another player for the short term duration. At the end of the either 15 or 30 day window they either go back to the active roster, get released, or to IR.

The expansion of the roster from 45 to 53 and practice squads was done to address this. Injured players are made inactive. The old IR system was being abused.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Situations like this are the perfect example of why the NFL needs to change it's rules regarding injured players. The league needs a 15 or 30 day disabled list. Player stays with the team, no waivers etc. You can then fill their roster spot with another player for the short term duration. At the end of the either 15 or 30 day window they either go back to the active roster, get released, or to IR.

The expansion of the roster from 45 to 53 and practice squads was done to address this. Injured players are made inactive. The old IR system was being abused.

Great points. I do think that the NFL's attempts to address this issue don't go far enough, however. Football is too violent a sport. They should:

- Add another reserve-PUP spot for each team to use and allow teams to place players on reserve-PUP even if they practiced at training camp and were thus not on preseason-PUP,

- Expand regular season rosters to sixty.

- Give teams more time to recover between games by adding a double-bye to the schedule and not scheduling teams to play on Thursday nights unless they are coming off a bye.

 

[toochain]

Anyone wonder why Norwood was used sparingly at Alabama?

The productivity of these kids out of Alabama has been rather limited.

I can not help but question if there is something to be reviewed and learned there.

Used sparingly? He was second on the team in receptions, second in yards and first in touchdowns last year. 38 catches might not seem like a lot, but that was on a team that spread the ball around a lot, and preferred to run. He and Cooper were the heart and soul of the passing offense. He was on the field a lot.

I see what you mean as far as Norwood (though he hasn't had a chance to play a snap yet) and Jesse Williams being hurt (though he was hurt in the SEC championship game and played hurt against Notre Dame so it wasn't much of a surprise to me that he wasn't completely healthy when he showed up here, though I didn't know the knee problems were so severe). Carpenter has been disappointing considering where he was drafted, I'll admit.

Julio Jones, Eddie Lacy, Marcel Dareus (when he's not in trouble), Dont'a Hightower, Courtney Upshaw, DJ Fluker, etc have been successful albeit not for the Seahawks.

When the game was on the line, and even with Amari Cooper on the field, the most clutch target Bama had over the past 2 or 3 years was Norwood. He worked the sidelines on outs as well as any college receiver I've seen.

 

[Tokadub]

I would probably put money on Norwood playing more games than Harvin this season based on the current evidence and history.

From your reply, I'll take it to mean that you in fact would not put money on Norwood playing more games than Harvin this season based on the current evidence and history.

Really Tical I think that one sentence you quoted from me explains my stance in crystal clear clarity. Someone must be lacking in some elementary school level reading comprehension.

You are the one who is trying to twist the terms so that Harvin can miss 7 games and you still win the bet.

Keep it real, stop being so absurd... The bet still stands as I originally stated. I'm not gonna make up some ridiculous scenario that you need to calculate like it's some SAT question to determine the outcomes...

If Norwood starts week 1 I'll bet $50 that he starts more games than Harvin simple as that.

Your bet is ridiculous, Harvin misses 7 games and you win... what a joke lol. You are the biggest hypocrite on this site.

 

[kearly]

The real interesting question will be whether the team thinks he's shown enough to warrant a Final 53 spot. What if Lockette and Bates blow up in the preseason? Could you then justify cutting one of them to hold a spot for a 4th round WR who didn't play or practice?

My hunch is he makes the team, but things are going to get interesting if some dark-horses really shine in pre-season (e.g. Stephen Williams last year).

I get what you are saying but I personally think Norwood is a lock. He was a 4th round pick but JS had him rated significantly higher than that. JS made comments to the effect that Norwood was the last of a certain tier of WR and lasted way longer than was expected.

Norwood didn't play much before his injury but when he did the reports were glowing. Norwood is not a true tall WR but at 6'2" he could end up being the tallest WR we have that is a significant part of the passing game (meaning Lockette is excluded from consideration as he's mostly a ST guy). The retirement of Rice not only increased Norwood's importance to us, it also opened a spot at WR too.

Norwood was liked by others I'm sure, there is essentially zero chance he'd clear waivers and hit the PS if Seattle tries to do that. Seattle likes to use their last couple roster spots to stash their most talented leftovers, so I have a hard time seeing them not making room for Norwood. It would be fun if Matthews and Bates made this a real discussion though.

 

[Tokadub]

My original quote in this thread, which like usual is 100% correct:

So you guys are basing all this gloom and doom based off what Clayton said? No offense but he's wrong A LOT.

I don't believe this for one second, Norwood just has a sore foot big F'N deal. Why waste his talents in the pre-season when he could rest and start against Green Bay week 1.

I really am not getting the impression that Norwood is seriously injured AT ALL, if someone has some sources and links which support this theory please link them. Right now you sound like a bunch of negative Nancys freaking out about speculation guess jokes.

I'm much more concerned about our O-Line and Harvin staying healthy. If Norwood is really significantly injured already this pick was a total bust and would explain why nobody else picked him up given how good he looks on the field.

I still think he's ok probably just a little swelling and sore, there's no reason to force him to play next practice.

Why do people still respond to Tokadub's posts as if they're serious?

This. X 10000000

OK, yeah... I'm the ONLY ONE IN THIS THREAD WHO CONFIDENTLY SAID NORWOOD WAS OK. Told you all Norwood wouldn't be out for the season and it was just a minor injury and that he would likely start week 1.

John Clayton is wrong again...

And Tokadub is right again what a surprise

This is the usual outcome, please don't doubt me and make me post countless posts I made which were more accurate than 99% or all of the posters in the specific threads. There ARE a few good posters here so I don't want to throw EVERYONE under the bus. Just the majority of you :stirthepot:

I don't think I've ever been wrong yet on this forum but time will tell in 2014, I can't wait. And yes I'm drunk and cocky, but seriously you guys underestimate my predictions. I'm like the fricken Nostradamus of the Seahawks or anything I care enough to closely study.

 

[Tokadub]

Oh also, if Norwood doesn't make the team that would be a huge blow to our offense.

In addition, I've recently seen some "expert" write an article predicting the Seahawks would only keep 5 Wide Receivers. I think this is the WORST and LEAST LIKELY PREDICTION YOU COULD MAKE ON OUR WHOLE ROSTER...

We NEED 6 receivers period. The only guy I'm counting on 100% is Baldwin.

- Baldwin is the man, just like Tate used to be for us. It's very unlikely that he'll be hurt. Very likely he will be consistently productive.

- Harvin is likely to miss some games

- Kearse is a bit lucky so far to be so clutch in big moments considering how bad his hands are.

- Lockette should make the team for special teams and speed.

- Phil Bates seems to be having a hot training camp and could be competitive for the 6th spot.

- Richardson is pretty small and not entirely polished for the NFL level, most likely not an every down type of guy in my opinion. Will be a big play or "special" play specialist, in some cases used as a decoy.

- Norwood could be an every down type of guy, he looks like a rookie ready to jump right into the NFL if I've ever seen one. Should be taking the place of Sidney Rice which Kearse was previously doing but I think Norwood is better.

So where in these 7 guys do we see a possibility to have only 5 wide receivers? Shaking my head...

With Harvin being such a big part of our offense it is literally a requirement that we keep at least 6 Wide Recievers. I think anyone who predicts otherwise is bat nuts crazy...

And Norwood should ideally be our #3 guy behind Harvin and Baldwin. So if Norwood doesn't make the team and start week 1 that would be a huge blow to our offense in my opinion.

 

[Anthony!]

Oh also, if Norwood doesn't make the team that would be a huge blow to our offense.

In addition, I've recently seen some "expert" write an article predicting the Seahawks would only keep 5 Wide Receivers. I think this is the WORST and LEAST LIKELY PREDICTION YOU COULD MAKE ON OUR WHOLE ROSTER...

We NEED 6 receivers period. The only guy I'm counting on 100% is Baldwin.

- Baldwin is the man, just like Tate used to be for us. It's very unlikely that he'll be hurt. Very likely he will be consistently productive.

- Harvin is likely to miss some games

- Kearse is a bit lucky so far to be so clutch in big moments considering how bad his hands are.

- Lockette should make the team for special teams and speed.

- Phil Bates seems to be having a hot training camp and could be competitive for the 6th spot.

- Richardson is pretty small and not entirely polished for the NFL level, most likely not an every down type of guy in my opinion. Will be a big play or "special" play specialist, in some cases used as a decoy.

- Norwood could be an every down type of guy, he looks like a rookie ready to jump right into the NFL if I've ever seen one. Should be taking the place of Sidney Rice which Kearse was previously doing but I think Norwood is better.

So where in these 7 guys do we see a possibility to have only 5 wide receivers? Shaking my head...

With Harvin being such a big part of our offense it is literally a requirement that we keep at least 6 Wide Recievers. I think anyone who predicts otherwise is bat nuts crazy...

And Norwood should ideally be our #3 guy behind Harvin and Baldwin. So if Norwood doesn't make the team and start week 1 that would be a huge blow to our offense in my opinion.

Some of what you say makes sense but your comment about Kearse is just plain wrong. He has made way to many big catches for it to be luck, and since he had his lazik has not dropped a lot. He is a lock for this team. I think they keep 6 and my money is on; Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Richardson, Norwood, and Bates as of now with Lockett maybe, but not sure his ST play is enough.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Tokadub, my buddy.

I like that you have to pat yourself on the back because no one is going to do it for you.

Harvin isn't more injury prone than Baldwin. Harvin is also bigger and stronger.

Kearse isn't lucky, the guy showed some serious ball skills last season and in his 2nd season he practically had the same Catch% at 59.2% that Golden "All Hands" Tate had in 2nd Year at 60.3% and much better than "Clutch"Baldwin's 2nd season in which he had 55%.In fact if you include post-season numbers Kearse had a better 2nd season than either Tate or Baldwin. The guy has talent and is only going to get better.

Richardson isn't that much smaller than your boy Norwood. Richardson is 6-0, 185-190 pounds right now. Norwood is 6'2, 200... so if 2 inches, 10-15 pounds is that much bigger, I don't see it... Also in terms of upper body strength Norwood doesn't look that much stronger. They both look to have a similar builds.

I also like Norwood he does a lot of things well but the truth of the matter is. He's not proven, he's not going to start, if he makes the team, he would likely be the 6th WR and inactive.

Top 6 Seahawks Recievers (right now)

1. Harvin
2. Baldwin
3. Kearse
4. Miller
5. Willson
6. Lynch

Everyone else are pretty much just role players.

 

[Anthony!]

Tokadub, my buddy.

I like that you have to pat yourself on the back because no one is going to do it for you.

Harvin isn't more injury prone than Baldwin. Harvin is also bigger and stronger.

Kearse isn't lucky, the guy showed some serious ball skills last season and in his 2nd season he practically had the same Catch% at 59.2% that Golden "All Hands" Tate had at 60.3% and much better than Baldwin's 2nd season in which he had 55%.In fact if you include post-season numbers Kearse had a better 2nd season than either Tate or Baldwin. The guy has talent and is only going to get better.

Richardson isn't that much smaller than your boy Norwood. Richardson is 6-0, 185-190 pounds right now. Norwood is 6'2, 200... so if 2 inches, 10-15 pounds is that much bigger, I don't see it... Also in terms of upper body strength Norwood doesn't look that much stronger. They both look to have a similar builds.

I also like Norwood he does a lot of things well but the truth of the matter is. He's not proven, he's not going to start, if he makes the team, he would likely be the 6th WR and inactive.

I agree with most of what you said, but given what I have heard about Norwood he could end up being a key guy on 3rd downs, PC has said he runs precise routes, uses his body well and catches everything within 10 yards of him. To me I see him as a bigger Baldwin, You add to 2 speedsters like Harvin and Richardson, the highwire act of Kearse to go along with the dependability of Baldwin and Norwood it could be a great WR corps, and you can add in Bates, Mathews, or Lockett for more size.

 

[Tokadub]

Harvin isn't more injury prone than Baldwin. Harvin is also bigger and stronger.

Kearse isn't lucky, the guy showed some serious ball skills last season and in his 2nd season he practically had the same Catch% at 59.2% that Golden "All Hands" Tate had in 2nd Year at 60.3% and much better than "Clutch"Baldwin's 2nd season in which he had 55%.In fact if you include post-season numbers Kearse had a better 2nd season than either Tate or Baldwin. The guy has talent and is only going to get better.

Richardson isn't that much smaller than your boy Norwood. Richardson is 6-0, 185-190 pounds right now. Norwood is 6'2, 200... so if 2 inches, 10-15 pounds is that much bigger, I don't see it... Also in terms of upper body strength Norwood doesn't look that much stronger. They both look to have a similar builds.

I also like Norwood he does a lot of things well but the truth of the matter is. He's not proven, he's not going to start, if he makes the team, he would likely be the 6th WR and inactive.

Top 6 Seahawks Recievers (right now)

1. Harvin
2. Baldwin
3. Kearse
4. Miller
5. Willson
6. Lynch

Everyone else are pretty much just role players.

First of all, thus far HARVIN IS MORE INJURY PRONE THAN TATE IN THEIR CAREERS. All of your arguments are hypothetical, the only thing that matters is who misses more game due to injury. Thus far Harvin has been injured a lot more than Tate so you aren't gonna get anywhere with your arguments no matter how hard you try. You are living in fantasy land on that one.

It get's quite tedious always having to prove you wrong Pandion

Here are the regular season stats for our team last year:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/sea/seattle-seahawks

Here are the catch rate percentages ranked for all notable players:

1) Lynch = 36/44 = 81.2%
2) Willson = 20/28 = 71.4%
3) Lockette = 5/7 = 71.4%
4) Baldwin = 50/73 = 68.5%
5) Turbin = 8/12 = 66.7%
6) Tate = 64/98 = 65.3%
7) Miller = 33/56 = 58.9%
8) Kearse= 22/38 = 57.9%
9) Rice = 15/35 = 42.9%

If you take the average of all players listed except Kearse you get:

Team Total (without Kearse) = 231/353 = 65.4%
Kearse = 22/38 = 57.9%

Kearse's rate was 7.5% lower than the team's average. I did something similar awhile ago probably in the playoffs where I didn't include Rice since he wasn't playing anymore.

If you subtract Sidney Rice from the equation:

Team Total (without Kearse and Rice) = 216/318 = 67.9%
Kearse = 22/38 = 57.9%

That is where I got my stat I've been spouting that Kearse had a 10% lower catch rate than our team's average. And as you can see above Kearse was ranked 8th in catch rate last year in the regular season.

I'm not sure where you are getting your stats, but you should probably link them so people actually know what you're talking about...

I left out a few guys from my list above because they had barely any catches or didn't seem as relevant to this discussion:

Harvin = 1/1
Robinson = 2/3
Coleman = 8/8

Couldn't disagree more on your point:

I also like Norwood he does a lot of things well but the truth of the matter is. He's not proven, he's not going to start, if he makes the team, he would likely be the 6th WR and inactive.

But then again you were also the guy who said:

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68515&p=940726#p940726

We'll see... but I think in the end in terms of keeping 5 WRs... Stephen Williams is more valuable that Doug Baldwin. Chris Harper is more valuable than Doug Baldwin.

So at least I won't be losing any sleep about your wide receiver talent evaluations


As for Richardson being almost as big as Norwood I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from or even what it has to do with this thread to begin with? I recently heard an interview where Richardson stated he was playing at under 160 in college... and there is a BIG difference between 6'0'' and 6'2'' when it comes to receivers.

And according to the official nfl.com/draft stuff Richardson weighed 175 and Norwood weighed 198. Basically Norwood is trying to add a lot of weight super fast because he was so light and he always was in college.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/kevin-norwood?id=2543689
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/paul-richardson?id=2543491

I don't even understand the relevance of their size in this discussion, but just wanted to point out that Norwood is a much bigger man since it's obvious.

It's like in boxing you could have two guys that are 5'11'' and one of them has been fighting at 147 their whole career and the other one's been fighting at 175. Even though they are the same height the guy who fought at 175 is naturally a much bigger man with his body type. It's very rare that these two would ever fight even if the 147 guy comes up to 168 and they meet in the middle, he'd typically be at a huge disadvantage strength wise.

If Richardson has been playing at 30-40 pounds less than Norwood their whole careers thus far AND he's 2 inches shorter... I just have no idea where you're coming from saying Richardson's about as big as Norwood... Richardson is packing on weight the best he can and doing so very quickly which probably increases his chances of getting injured if he over-trains to gain weight too fast.

And finally your quote:

Top 6 Seahawks Recievers (right now)

1. Harvin
2. Baldwin
3. Kearse
4. Miller
5. Willson
6. Lynch

Everyone else are pretty much just role players.

Well if we ranked your top 6 receivers based on their 2013 regular season production since it's at least somewhat factual compared to anyone's opinion list (including my own) it'd be:

1) Baldwin = 778 Yards
2) Miller = 387 Yards
3) Kearse = 346 Yards
4) Lynch = 316 Yards
5) Willson = 272 Yards
6) Harvin = 17 Yards

Looking at that list none of those guys other than Baldwin are really knocking my socks off to be honest... Hopefully Norwood and Richardson can step it up to make up for losing our real #1 on that list last season.

1) Tate = 898 Yards (But I'd consider him and Baldwin tied for #1 wide receiver overall)


Ironically I posted a list earlier tonight in another thread for whom I thought the top 6 recievers would be and how they would be ranked if everything goes perfectly on our offense:

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94509&start=100

1) Baldwin
2) Harvin (less targets than Baldwin but a great year)
3) Norwood (he looks ready for the NFL and a perfect receiver for Wilson in my opinion)
4) Richardson (he has enough big plays to edge out Kearse)
5) Kearse (continues to produce in clutch plays despite bad hands)
6) Lockette (I really like him to make the team for his special teams and speed)

It looks a lot different than your list, but then again I'm only listing wide receivers not adding Tight Ends and Running Backs in my prediction for Wide Receivers...

 

[Tokadub]

Harvin isn't more injury prone than Baldwin. Harvin is also bigger and stronger.

Going to assume Pandion meant:

"Harvin isn't more injury prone than Tate. Harvin is also bigger and stronger."

He's pretty obsessed with that topic.

 

[seahawk12thman]

Stephen Cohen ‏@scohenPI 3m
WR Kevin Norwood had a bone spur removed from his foot yesterday. Could be back by end of camp. #Seahawks

Great news. Can't wait to see a Norwoom Bates combo near the goal line. We would have blown out the Saints again hat we had more physical receivers near the goal line. Our offense could be just as dominant as the D.