NFL Games are rigged. A Poll.

[Hockey Guy]

It's incompetence on the refs part.
Nothing nefarious.
Same stuff happens in hockey.

 

[JustTheTip]

It's incompetence on the refs part.
Nothing nefarious.
Same stuff happens in hockey.

When you don't call offsides on a player lined up like this for ~5 seconds and then call an offensive hold that doesn't happen on the same play, that isn't explained away by incompetence.

 

[FlyingGunHawk]

I don't think it is scripted at all if scripted means the games and how they go are predetermined. I think it is likely that the NFL uses the officials to make a desired outcome more likely.

Understood.

If I may ask, does believing that the league manipulates desired outcomes, weather they become true or not, make your viewing experience less desirable? I'm asking because If I felt the way you do, I would have stopped watching the NFL the moment I thought that were the case.

Please correct me if I am wrong because I don't want to misinterpret you or put words into your mouth.

 

[JustTheTip]

Understood.

If I may ask, does believing that the league manipulates desired outcomes, weather they become true or not, make your viewing experience less desirable? I'm asking because If I felt the way you do, I would have stopped watching the NFL the moment I thought that were the case.

Please correct me if I am wrong because I don't want to misinterpret you or put words into your mouth.

To answer the question, I would not stop watching. Over the last decade and a half (since XL) I have already adjusted my NFL viewing to accommodate acceptance of what I think is likely going on. Prior to XL I refused to accept it as a possibility despite the patterns that were already present. Prior to XL I couldn't get enough NFL football. All day Sunday and Monday night, that is what I was doing. Now I watch the Seahawks and then any other games that interest me. Many weeks that means just watching the Seahawks.

Whether it is just incompetence or steering the entertainment value of the product is the same. Also, I didn't say it wasn't rational to think it isn't intentional steering I said it wasn't rational to see what happens week in and week out and then to a larger extent in critical games (XL, Saints/Rams, etc) and think it isn't a possibility.

 

[Hockey Guy]

When you don't call offsides on a player lined up like this for ~5 seconds and then call an offensive hold that doesn't happen on the same play, that isn't explained away by incompetence.

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I don't recall that play specifically because, being old & being computer illiterate, I was still 8 or 9 years away from discovering this forum & I agree phantom penalties do get called(sometimes it's simply getting the wrong number & sometimes it's just a phantom call) but I've also seen centers for every team during that era move the ball forward from where the officials spotted it making it look like a defensive player was offside.

I'm not saying that's what happened but I'd need to see the actual video for me to be 100% sure it was an egregious missed call.

 

[JustTheTip]

I don't recall that play specifically because, being old & being computer illiterate, I was still 8 or 9 years away from discovering this forum & I agree phantom penalties do get called(sometimes it's simply getting the wrong number & sometimes it's just a phantom call) but I've also seen centers for every team during that era move the ball forward from where the officials spotted it making it look like a defensive player was offside.

I'm not saying that's what happened but I'd need to see the actual video for me to be 100% sure it was an egregious missed call.

That wasn't the case here. I took that still from the game recording myself. The player lined up there, the ball wasn't moved forward. You can kind of tell by how the rest of the defensive front is lined up. That was the play that Hasselbeck hit Stevens at the two yardline on. Called back on the Locklear hold (that didn't happen) and the player Locklear got accused of holding also went offsides (you can see he is already starting forward in the picture.) Next play Hasselbeck threw an interception and then got called for a low block when he went across one of the returner's blockers path with an attempted dive tackle giving the Steelers an extra 10 yards. I think it was two plays later that the long trick play for a Steeler's TD occurred. On that play, there was a blatant hold and two OL downfield one around 10 yards.

So in something like 5 plays, "bad" calls took it from first and goal at the two for the Seahawks to a Steelers TD. This was also a game where the Seahawks flat out dominated every stat except the only important one.

 

[Hockey Guy]

That wasn't the case here. I took that still from the game recording myself. The player lined up there, the ball wasn't moved forward. You can kind of tell by how the rest of the defensive front is lined up. That was the play that Hasselbeck hit Stevens at the two yardline on. Called back on the Locklear hold (that didn't happen) and the player Locklear got accused of holding also went offsides (you can see he is already starting forward in the picture.) Next play Hasselbeck threw an interception and then got called for a low block when he went across one of the returner's blockers path with an attempted dive tackle giving the Steelers an extra 10 yards. I think it was two plays later that the long trick play for a Steeler's TD occurred. On that play, there was a blatant hold and two OL downfield one around 10 yards.

So in something like 5 plays, "bad" calls took it from first and goal at the two for the Seahawks to a Steelers TD. This was also a game where the Seahawks flat out dominated every stat except the only important one.

Read the 2nd paragraph I wrote.

I could not care less about this wall of text you wrote trying to convince me of this play & many others when I've already stated I'd need to see the video so I could make up my own mind if the play in question(the alleged offside) was egregious or not.

Not sure what part of that statement was an opening for more debate.

 

[JustTheTip]

Read the 2nd paragraph I wrote.

I could not care less about this wall of text you wrote trying to convince me of this play & many others when I've already stated I'd need to see the video so I could make up my own mind if the play in question(the alleged offside) was egregious or not.

Not sure what part of that statement was an opening for more debate.

Care, don't care, no sweat off my sack either way. The description and still is all I have, I deleted the recording long ago.

 

[JPatera76]

Read the 2nd paragraph I wrote.

I could not care less about this wall of text you wrote trying to convince me of this play & many others when I've already stated I'd need to see the video so I could make up my own mind if the play in question(the alleged offside) was egregious or not.

Not sure what part of that statement was an opening for more debate.

I.e. I dont care what you have to say, I believe what I believe and nothing will convince me otherwise. If I state the sky is purple its purple you cant tell me otherwise.

 

[Hockey Guy]

I.e. I dont care what you have to say, I believe what I believe and nothing will convince me otherwise. If I state the sky is purple its purple you cant tell me otherwise.

Yeah, this is EXACTLY what I wrote. EXACTLY. You've brilliantly trapped me by using my own words to prove the fallacy in my argument.

Now, hopefully there's no video evidence of a blue sky to invalidate my purple sky beliefs.

 

[knownone]

The NFL is not rigged. But the league has some pretty dubious ways of unintentionally steering games. For example, they show film before a game to emphasize infractions that need to be called on a particular team. This approach can have a dramatic impact on the outcome of games if the team is not made aware of the shift in emphasis before the game.

On top of that, you also have people interpreting convoluted rules in real time. That alone will lead to many questionable calls because mistakes happen, and there is no mechanism to correct those mistakes.

 

[StoneCold]

The NFL is not rigged. But the league has some pretty dubious ways of unintentionally steering games. For example, they show film before a game to emphasize infractions that need to be called on a particular team. This approach can have a dramatic impact on the outcome of games if the team is not made aware of the shift in emphasis before the game.

On top of that, you also have people interpreting convoluted rules in real time. That alone will lead to many questionable calls because mistakes happen, and there is no mechanism to correct those mistakes.

Agree with most of what you say, but I wouldn't call that steering. Those are unintentional outcomes. And they do use replay to try and correct some of those issues.

 

[Threedee]

It's incompetence on the refs part.
Nothing nefarious.
Same stuff happens in hockey.

Yes, I still fail to see how much upside we have gotten over the past ten seasons following the end of the strike. The replacements were worse, but, not by a lot, and they were much more entertaining. The NFL doesn't do its officials any favours by drawing up really bad rules and being unable to define basic things, such as "catch."

The very first thing that needs to happen is the banning of fouls being called based upon context (e.g. "we're trained to look for this"). If you think something happened, but didn't actually see it, then it didn't happen.