My preseason 2 cents

[kearly]

Christine Michael is going to be really good, but he may be a bit more like Alexander where he is lethal with a hole, and kind of has trouble getting through the line without one.

Good stuff as usual. I highlighted this last comment because I think it is worth repeating. We've seen enough of Michael now to know that he's not a power back, but give him a hole, even a small one, and he can turn into 5-10 yards very consistently.

Also, it feels like Michael has had more run plays sabotaged by backfield penetration than any other RB on the team so far.

Norwood didn't show me a whole lot this game. Yes he did have a nice 11 yard grab, but the other times my eyes caught him, I saw a guy who didn't appear to be going all out because he knew the ball wasn't going to him. On this team, if you're not "ALL IN" in terms of your effort ... you're going to find yourself on the outside looking in real quick. I think his days on this roster are numbered.

Yeah I think you might be right. I was such a big fan of the Norwood pick, but his time in Seattle is starting to make me wonder if his success at Alabama was based on chemistry and not talent.

 

[chris98251]

Christine Michael is going to be really good, but he may be a bit more like Alexander where he is lethal with a hole, and kind of has trouble getting through the line without one.

Good stuff as usual. I highlighted this last comment because I think it is worth repeating. We've seen enough of Michael now to know that he's not a power back, but give him a hole, even a small one, and he can turn into 5-10 yards very consistently.

Also, it feels like Michael has had more run plays sabotaged by backfield penetration than any other RB on the team so far.

Then he will not make it here, based on the 4 seasons our backs have to be able to run thru contact not have a gapping hole to pick from.

 

[hawknation2015]

Christine Michael is going to be really good, but he may be a bit more like Alexander where he is lethal with a hole, and kind of has trouble getting through the line without one.

Good stuff as usual. I highlighted this last comment because I think it is worth repeating. We've seen enough of Michael now to know that he's not a power back, but give him a hole, even a small one, and he can turn into 5-10 yards very consistently.

Also, it feels like Michael has had more run plays sabotaged by backfield penetration than any other RB on the team so far.

Then he will not make it here, based on the 4 seasons our backs have to be able to run thru contact not have a gapping hole to pick from.

He also doesn't read the play or his blockers very well. There were a couple players where that was particularly evident.

The comparison to Alexander is kind of ridiculous for that reason. But no more ridiculous than comparing him to Adrian Petersen.

 

[vin.couve12]

[vine]eDdbEKwnDMB[/vine]

This is the play a couple of us noticed where KJ ran into his speed limitation. This vid was supposed to depict how stupid it is to try and crackback on Bane, but KJ messed up here. He needs to take a better angle on this one. He's quick, but not that fast.

Still, he made quite a few good reads this game and looked to be back to his 2013 form. 2014 was kind of ugly too often. Hopefully he continues to look like the former.

I'd have to look at the play pre-snap, but typically it is the end's job to set the edge, not KJ's. He's supposed to come up and fill, not play from the outside in. So, yes, speed certainly would have helped him, but that play isn't supposed to be allowed to get so wide. For him to be where he was in that play, it must have been a power or counter to the weakside. To me, that is the where I would try to attack our front to try to make a big play. If you can get the end blocked, we've only got one LB on that side of the field. I'd be asking more about what happened to the LEO.

Gamecast rules.

Wright actually was the edge defender on that play. He was lined up tight on the LOS a la SLB.

KC pulled a G and got him on Carey Williams. Wright set the edge just fine, but just didn't get outside.

EDIT: I will say that it looked like we shot the A gaps with the other two backers like we were expecting an inside run.

EDIT AGAIN: Irvin was not on the field (Wright at SLB and KPL at WLB).

 

[Willyeye]

Players I thought had a good game:

Offense

Terry Poole
Patrick Lewis
Tyler Lockett
Lemuel Jeanpierre
Alvin Bailey
RaShaun Allen
Kristjan Sokoli

Defense

Michael Bennett
DeShawn Shead
Cliff Avril
Ahtyba Rubin
Tyrell Adams
Keelan Johnson
Brandon Mebane
Kevin Pierre-Louis
Bobby Wagner
K.J. Wright
Eric Pinkins
Ronald Martin
Dion Bailey

Players I thought had a bad game:

Offense

Keavon Milton
Russell Okung
J.R. Sweezy
Thomas Rawls
B.J. Daniels
Justin Britt
Kona Schwenke
Robert Turbin

Defense

Greg Scruggs
Bruce Irvin
Cary Williams
Jesse Williams
Alex Singleton
Tye Smith
Douglas McNeil
Brock Coyle

Just my two pennies.

 

[kearly]

Then he will not make it here, based on the 4 seasons our backs have to be able to run thru contact not have a gapping hole to pick from.

You are totally right.

The frustrating thing for me is that very very few RBs have the Marshawn Lynch / Chris Ivory style of skillset where they can keep running after contact consistently. Other than Lynch, the Hawks have really only picked up two other players with this kind of skillset: Lendale White in an ill-fated trade and Spencer Ware in the 2013 draft. I liked what Ware gave us, but ultimately he was too slow and seemed to get slower every season (though he did make a nifty play for the Chiefs in this game, funny enough).

I think what Seattle hopes for is an O-line like SF had a couple years ago, one that might struggle in protection but can open up huge holes in the run game at will. Guys like Turbin and Michael would look just fine behind such a line.

But in reality, we have a piecemeal, inexperienced OL that is more adept at creating chaos than blowing open huge holes. This is why I said that it feels like we rely on Lynch more than ever, because his running style often times resembles an action hero escaping as the floor falls out from underneath him. Get enough bodies on the ground, and Lynch can toe step through the madness and turn it into a good play, sometimes even a monster play.

I do think Tical's point is correct though. Put Turbin in Denver with Manning checking him into great running situations and he'd probably be a fantasy stud. Put Christine Michael in Dallas behind the NFL's #1 run blocking group and he'd probably turn his remarkable explosiveness into monster fantasy production (Dallas rolled the dice on McFadden this offseason, a guy with similar athletic traits to Michael. McFadden can't stay healthy, but I get why the Cowboys targeted McFadden's physical skillset).

Seattle's run blocking style is very hard to match and Lynch fits it like a glove the way that very very few other RBs could. I think Seattle has a good eye for RB talent, but right now it seems like Lynch is the only back who has enough of the right kind of talent to make it work.

Lynch is probably in the last few years of his career and is so hard to replace. It would probably be a good idea for Seattle to build a run blocking unit that is capable of making more than just Marshawn Lynch look capable of a 1000 yard season in our offense. But if that can't be done, then the next best option is to find the next Lynch. Either task will be a challenge.

 

[Anthony!]

Then he will not make it here, based on the 4 seasons our backs have to be able to run thru contact not have a gapping hole to pick from.

You are totally right.

The frustrating thing for me is that very very few RBs have the Marshawn Lynch / Chris Ivory style of skillset where they can keep running after contact consistently. Other than Lynch, the Hawks have really only picked up two other players with this kind of skillset: Lendale White in an ill-fated trade and Spencer Ware in the 2013 draft. I liked what Ware gave us, but ultimately he was too slow and seemed to get slower every season (though he did make a nifty play for the Chiefs in this game, funny enough).

I think what Seattle hopes for is an O-line like SF had a couple years ago, one that might struggle in protection but can open up huge holes in the run game at will. Guys like Turbin and Michael would look just fine behind such a line.

But in reality, we have a piecemeal, inexperienced OL that is more adept at creating chaos than blowing open huge holes. This is why I said that it feels like we rely on Lynch more than ever, because his running style often times resembles an action hero escaping as the floor falls out from underneath him. Get enough bodies on the ground, and Lynch can toe step through the madness and turn it into a good play, sometimes even a monster play.

I do think Tical's point is correct though. Put Turbin in Denver with Manning checking him into great running situations and he'd probably be a fantasy stud. Put Christine Michael in Dallas behind the NFL's #1 run blocking group and he'd probably turn his remarkable explosiveness into monster fantasy production (Dallas rolled the dice on McFadden this offseason, a guy with similar athletic traits to Michael. McFadden can't stay healthy, but I get why the Cowboys targeted McFadden's physical skillset).

Seattle's run blocking style is very hard to match and Lynch fits it like a glove the way that very very few other RBs could. I think Seattle has a good eye for RB talent, but right now it seems like Lynch is the only back who has enough of the right kind of talent to make it work.

Lynch is probably in the last few years of his career and is so hard to replace. It would probably be a good idea for Seattle to build a run blocking unit that is capable of making more than just Marshawn Lynch look capable of a 1000 yard season in our offense. But if that can't be done, then the next best option is to find the next Lynch. Either task will be a challenge.

I think Turbin doing well in Denver has less to do with Manning checking or not and more to do with the amount of talent around him. Their oline was top 10 in both run and pass blocking. They have a much better Wr cops, and they have an offensive philosophy that is not built around the run first and 2nd, so teams are not sure what is coming a lot more, Here teams know we run 1st and 2nd and that is that. That said I am also very sure if we were not in preseason and we ran more read option Turbin would do much better as teams would need to worry more about Wilson. However we are not going to do that in preseason, behind this line and risk loosing Wilson.

 

[Boom84]

I haven't seen anyone mention Irvin, he had a terrible game.

Next time he wants to pop off on Twitter and whine about his option not getting picked up, just show him a tape of this game. I counted three bad angles on tackles, resulting in 7-10 yard runs.........and awful coverage on the TD.

Inconsistent, thy name is Bruce Irvin.

Wholeheartedly agree here! Knowing that Irvin likely doesn't have a future in Seattle beyond this season, I would like to see the team trade him to Atlanta or Jacksonville before the regular season starts to get something in return and open some cap space for the eventual resignings of Okung, Bennett, and Kam. While Irvin is likely to have a career year in a contract season, the defense is good enough to offset his absence and it would open the door for a potential Aldon Smith acquisition.

I just see no benefit to holding on to Bruce Irvin at this point and it's seemingly time to move on.

 

[hawknation2015]

I haven't seen anyone mention Irvin, he had a terrible game.

Next time he wants to pop off on Twitter and whine about his option not getting picked up, just show him a tape of this game. I counted three bad angles on tackles, resulting in 7-10 yard runs.........and awful coverage on the TD.

Inconsistent, thy name is Bruce Irvin.

Wholeheartedly agree here! Knowing that Irvin likely doesn't have a future in Seattle beyond this season, I would like to see the team trade him to Atlanta or Jacksonville before the regular season starts to get something in return and open some cap space for the eventual resignings of Okung, Bennett, and Kam. While Irvin is likely to have a career year in a contract season, the defense is good enough to offset his absence and it would open the door for a potential Aldon Smith acquisition.

I just see no benefit to holding on to Bruce Irvin at this point and it's seemingly time to move on.

The benefits are that you get him as a starter for this year on a cheap salary, he also gives you another dynamic pass rusher in the nickel, and then you get a compensatory pick for him next year after he signs with Atlanta (or somewhere else) for ~$7 million per year.

 

[Boom84]

I haven't seen anyone mention Irvin, he had a terrible game.

Next time he wants to pop off on Twitter and whine about his option not getting picked up, just show him a tape of this game. I counted three bad angles on tackles, resulting in 7-10 yard runs.........and awful coverage on the TD.

Inconsistent, thy name is Bruce Irvin.

Wholeheartedly agree here! Knowing that Irvin likely doesn't have a future in Seattle beyond this season, I would like to see the team trade him to Atlanta or Jacksonville before the regular season starts to get something in return and open some cap space for the eventual resignings of Okung, Bennett, and Kam. While Irvin is likely to have a career year in a contract season, the defense is good enough to offset his absence and it would open the door for a potential Aldon Smith acquisition.

I just see no benefit to holding on to Bruce Irvin at this point and it's seemingly time to move on.

The benefits are that you get him as a starter for this year on a cheap salary, he also gives you another dynamic pass rusher in the nickel, and then you get a compensatory pick for him next year after he signs with Atlanta (or somewhere else) for ~$7 million per year.

See I think that's the issue I have, Bruce Irvin's value as a starter for the team isn't that critical in my eyes. I'd feel better with Pierre-Louis switching sides to get more speed on the field. Yes, there's a tradeoff of less stout run support from Pierre-Louis, but pass coverage should be better. I also prefer to evaluate the potential successor sooner rather than later in case the team needs to look beyond Pierre-Louis to man the spot in 2016.

Finally the compensatory pick for Irvin could be no higher than a third rounder, and in a trade you might be able to secure a 2nd or a conditional third which could become a second thus increasing the compensation the team could get in return.

 

[theincrediblesok]

I haven't seen anyone mention Irvin, he had a terrible game.

Next time he wants to pop off on Twitter and whine about his option not getting picked up, just show him a tape of this game. I counted three bad angles on tackles, resulting in 7-10 yard runs.........and awful coverage on the TD.

Inconsistent, thy name is Bruce Irvin.

Wholeheartedly agree here! Knowing that Irvin likely doesn't have a future in Seattle beyond this season, I would like to see the team trade him to Atlanta or Jacksonville before the regular season starts to get something in return and open some cap space for the eventual resignings of Okung, Bennett, and Kam. While Irvin is likely to have a career year in a contract season, the defense is good enough to offset his absence and it would open the door for a potential Aldon Smith acquisition.

I just see no benefit to holding on to Bruce Irvin at this point and it's seemingly time to move on.

The benefits are that you get him as a starter for this year on a cheap salary, he also gives you another dynamic pass rusher in the nickel, and then you get a compensatory pick for him next year after he signs with Atlanta (or somewhere else) for ~$7 million per year.

Plus I don't want Aldon Smith here, I think they learned enough form the Harvin incident.

 

[Boom84]

I haven't seen anyone mention Irvin, he had a terrible game.

Next time he wants to pop off on Twitter and whine about his option not getting picked up, just show him a tape of this game. I counted three bad angles on tackles, resulting in 7-10 yard runs.........and awful coverage on the TD.

Inconsistent, thy name is Bruce Irvin.

Wholeheartedly agree here! Knowing that Irvin likely doesn't have a future in Seattle beyond this season, I would like to see the team trade him to Atlanta or Jacksonville before the regular season starts to get something in return and open some cap space for the eventual resignings of Okung, Bennett, and Kam. While Irvin is likely to have a career year in a contract season, the defense is good enough to offset his absence and it would open the door for a potential Aldon Smith acquisition.

I just see no benefit to holding on to Bruce Irvin at this point and it's seemingly time to move on.

The benefits are that you get him as a starter for this year on a cheap salary, he also gives you another dynamic pass rusher in the nickel, and then you get a compensatory pick for him next year after he signs with Atlanta (or somewhere else) for ~$7 million per year.

Plus I don't want Aldon Smith here, I think they learned enough form the Harvin incident.

While Aldon Smith would seemingly be highly radioactive, his next opportunity would likely be his last in the NFL. Certainly any contract would have minimal to no guarantees and be heavily incentive laden as a carrot for performance. Given that and the leadership on the Seahawks defense, the risk is minimal and the reward could be quite high for a still young player with elite talent faced with his back against the wall.

 

[ivotuk]

There is a huge benefit to not having a Kearly thread, and that's having all this great input that we are getting here.

There are a lot of posters on this board with great points of view, and most of them have been represented in this thread, and a few others.

Thank you, all of you.

And remember, generally speaking, no one person's opinion is any more valid than another's.

Admittedly, there's a few boneheaded posts here and there, but they rarely take anything from the good posts.

Please keep up the good work.

 

[hawknation2015]

There is a huge benefit to not having a Kearly thread, and that's having all this great input that we are getting here.

There are a lot of posters on this board with great points of view, and most of them have been represented in this thread, and a few others.

Thank you, all of you.

And remember, generally speaking, no one person's opinion is any more valid than another's.

Admittedly, there's a few boneheaded posts here and there, but they rarely take anything from the good posts.

Please keep up the good work.

Well said.

 

[Tical21]

Christine Michael is going to be really good, but he may be a bit more like Alexander where he is lethal with a hole, and kind of has trouble getting through the line without one.

Good stuff as usual. I highlighted this last comment because I think it is worth repeating. We've seen enough of Michael now to know that he's not a power back, but give him a hole, even a small one, and he can turn into 5-10 yards very consistently.

Also, it feels like Michael has had more run plays sabotaged by backfield penetration than any other RB on the team so far.

Then he will not make it here, based on the 4 seasons our backs have to be able to run thru contact not have a gapping hole to pick from.

He also doesn't read the play or his blockers very well. There were a couple players where that was particularly evident.

Okay, I'll bite. I could watch again but I wasn't seeing holes on many of the plays where he didn't get through the line.

 

[Tical21]

There is a huge benefit to not having a Kearly thread, and that's having all this great input that we are getting here.

There are a lot of posters on this board with great points of view, and most of them have been represented in this thread, and a few others.

Thank you, all of you.

And remember, generally speaking, no one person's opinion is any more valid than another's.

Admittedly, there's a few boneheaded posts here and there, but they rarely take anything from the good posts.

Please keep up the good work.

If I could, I do think there was a lot of good contributions weekly in the Random Thoughts threads as well. However, there may also have been a few more people on a mission to be disruptive.

 

[ivotuk]

There is a huge benefit to not having a Kearly thread, and that's having all this great input that we are getting here.

There are a lot of posters on this board with great points of view, and most of them have been represented in this thread, and a few others.

Thank you, all of you.

And remember, generally speaking, no one person's opinion is any more valid than another's.

Admittedly, there's a few boneheaded posts here and there, but they rarely take anything from the good posts.

Please keep up the good work.

If I could, I do think there was a lot of good contributions weekly in the Random Thoughts threads as well. However, there may also have been a few more people on a mission to be disruptive.

There was that. I don't think the current situation is going to allow for that. People who attempt to be disruptive while offering nothing in return will just find themselves being ignored. Of course it's harder for them to go on the attack when there's no real consensus on who the target is

 

[Tical21]

There is a huge benefit to not having a Kearly thread, and that's having all this great input that we are getting here.

There are a lot of posters on this board with great points of view, and most of them have been represented in this thread, and a few others.

Thank you, all of you.

And remember, generally speaking, no one person's opinion is any more valid than another's.

Admittedly, there's a few boneheaded posts here and there, but they rarely take anything from the good posts.

Please keep up the good work.

If I could, I do think there was a lot of good contributions weekly in the Random Thoughts threads as well. However, there may also have been a few more people on a mission to be disruptive.

There was that. I don't think the current situation is going to allow for that. People who attempt to be disruptive while offering nothing in return will just find themselves being ignored. Of course it's harder for them to go on the attack when there's no real consensus on who the target is

I sure hope you're right, and 46 doesn't end up getting his own list of haters out to thieve his light.

 

[hawknation2015]

He also doesn't read the play or his blockers very well. There were a couple players where that was particularly evident.

Okay, I'll bite. I could watch again but I wasn't seeing holes on many of the plays where he didn't get through the line.

On this play, which I mentioned in a different thread, I feel a better RB would have read his blockers to the left sideline, running off the TE, as opposed to diving head first into an unblocked DT. I think Marshawn, in particular, would have gone for a first down by reading this run off the TE.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Wilson was great in the pocket, and the utilization of the quick passing game plus using the middle of the field were all the biggest complaints about Wilson for the last 3 years. I have no problem with Wilson's styles of play but I will say the quick passing game could put this team over the edge.

Sure Wilson made some bad passes but the effort to stay in the pocket should be reassuring for some. He also did the same in the first preseason game.

The O-line did much better than last game, at least that's a positive. I'm hoping next game they can get more of the running game going, if not then Wilson can be the equalizer to get the running game going by keeping some read options to keep the defense on their toes, so I'm not worried about the running game yet, and plus no one is Marshawn in the backfield.

Tyler Lockett will get some passes in the regular games, he's too good not to be given that chance.

Archer, I can feel confident could take over TJ's place

Our Front 7 will be deadly, imagine once our starting secondary comes back.

Dion Bailey can start while Kam sort things out I'm comfortable with that.

Shead or Tye Smith on the outside, this is a great problem to have.