Mark Glowinski GREAT job at RG spot!

[kearly]

I could be wrong but my understanding of a "pancake" block is where two players engage each other straight up, and one of them is blown straight backwards and put on his back. Hence being flipped like a pancake. The Gif of Iupati getting trucked is a textbook example of a player getting pancaked.

The gif of Glowinski putting a guy on the ground by pushing an over-pursuing player from the side is a play every lineman would make in that situation, it's really neither a plus or a minus to me. Honestly, I could probably throw on pads and make that play, it might be the only play in the NFL I could make without getting murdered. Pushing a guy from the side who is off-balance to begin with is as easy as it is intuitive.

I think the best thing you could say about Glowinsky in this game was that he had an impressively low number of mental mistakes, which is even more impressive for a rookie making his first start against a tough opponent.

I liked the Glowinsky pick a lot, but if he ends up being a mediocre OL in this league I think my ego can take it. Very few players end up looking exactly the same in the pros as they did in college, so I think getting bent out of shape over being right about draft picks isn't a worth it since there is so much that was impossible to know before these players suit up in the NFL.

That said, it is fun when you call one right. I hope Glowinsky pans out the way I thought he would.

 

[hawknation2015]

Yup. Gilliam lunges high and the defender sidesteps. He only ends up low cause he falls . While the Glow did fine, I don't consider hitting a defender as he rushes past him a pancake. More so when a blocker blows up a defender at the point of attack and knocks him backward onto the ground.

I could be wrong but my understanding of a "pancake" block is where two players engage each other straight up, and one of them is blown straight backwards and put on his back. Hence being flipped like a pancake. The Gif of Iupati getting trucked is a textbook example of a player getting pancaked.

"The pancake block is a term that is used by offensive line coach and offensive linemen in football to describe a block that leaves a defensive player flat on his back as the running back goes through the hole."
Read more : http://www.livestrong.com/article/40570 ... -football/

It doesn't have to be "straight up" or "straight backwards" . . .

"The block is possible with direct contact but gaining a slight angle provides a significant advantage."

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/how_4474125_perform ... tball.html

Here's another example (another well executed lead step and drive by Glowinski, though he could have stayed lower for better leverage):

Unfortunately, Red Bryant sheds Gilliam to make the tackle or Michael might have gained a few more yards off this Glowinski "pancake" block.

 

[kearly]

Breno wasn't that good in 2013, and I agreed with the decision not to spend those kind of resources on him.

It's okay to disagree, but I thought Breno was our best lineman in 2013 (granted, he was the only guy to not be injured that year). It was his best year in protection and he was still a good run blocker.

Given that there were several mediocre tackles in the league making $9+ million per year at the time, I was bummed that Seattle let Breno walk for what was essentially a 2 year, $3.5m APY deal with some voidable years tacked on the end.

I do think that if JS had a crystal ball and seen how many sacks, pressures, and hits that Britt and Gilliam gave up at RT the past two years, he probably would have made more of an effort to retain an average RT who fit our system for what was a very fair price.

It's not that big of a deal though, if Breno were still here he'd likely be cut next season. I only saw him as a stopgap opportunity. I actually brought it up to underscore how little I doubt JS, when something this minor is the worst move I can think of that he's made on the OL (draft picks aside).

 

[hawknation2015]

Breno wasn't that good in 2013, and I agreed with the decision not to spend those kind of resources on him.

It's okay to disagree, but I thought Breno was our best lineman in 2013 (granted, he was the only guy to not be injured that year). It was his best year in protection and he was still a good run blocker.

Given that there were several mediocre tackles in the league making $9+ million per year at the time, I was bummed that Seattle let Breno walk for what was essentially a 2 year, $3.5m APY deal with some voidable years tacked on the end.

I do think that if JS had a crystal ball and seen how many sacks, pressures, and hits that Britt and Gilliam gave up at RT the past two years, he probably would have made more of an effort to retain an average RT who fit our system for what was a very fair price.

It's not that big of a deal though, if Breno were still here he'd likely be cut next season. I only saw him as a stopgap opportunity. I actually brought it up to underscore how little I doubt JS, when something this minor is the worst move I can think of that he's made on the OL (draft picks aside).

Carpenter is a better player than Giacomini and was the bigger loss, IMO. The offense put up record rushing totals in 2014 without Giacomini. Looking purely at run blocking, there was no drop-off going from Giacomini to Britt as a rookie. In fact, Britt was more powerful and probably a slight upgrade as a run blocker.

 

[kearly]

It doesn't have to be "straight up" or "straight backwards" . . .

"The block is possible with direct contact but gaining a slight angle provides a significant advantage."

Unfortunately, Red Bryant sheds Gilliam to make the tackle or Michael might have gained a few more yards off this Glowinski "pancake" block.

It means to put a guy "straight on his back". Not on his side or his belly after being shoved while off-balance. Guys end up on the ground on every play, doesn't make them all pancake blocks. A true pancake block is a rare and an extremely dominant display (see Iupati gif). What Glow did there happens on almost every play. Hell, I probably made that play 200 times in high school, but I only had maybe 2 or 3 pancake blocks.

 

[hawknation2015]

It doesn't have to be "straight up" or "straight backwards" . . .

"The block is possible with direct contact but gaining a slight angle provides a significant advantage."

Unfortunately, Red Bryant sheds Gilliam to make the tackle or Michael might have gained a few more yards off this Glowinski "pancake" block.

It means to put a guy "straight on his back". Not on his side or his belly after being shoved while off-balance. Guys end up on the ground on every play, doesn't make them all pancake blocks. A true pancake block is a rare and an extremely dominant display (see Iupati gif). What Glow did there happens on almost every play. Hell, I probably made that play 200 times in high school, but I only had maybe 2 or 3 pancake blocks.

In both plays, the defender is driven onto his back to spring the RB through the hole. It doesn't matter if it's straight up or at an angle as part of a lead step inside zone block. In my many years of playing and observing the game, that is the only definition I know.

Ultimately, you are just arguing semantics. Some high school football programs do unofficially count "pancake" blocks. Every year, the best HS offensive linemen record 40+ pancake blocks in a season.

"He had over 40 pancake blocks propelling him to 1st Team All-State, county, and Non-Public honors."

"He was a reliable lock down LT having gave up no sacks and amassing well over 50 pancakes throughout the season."
http://theproedge.com/offensive-lineman/

 

[kearly]

Carpenter is a better player than Giacomini and was the bigger loss, IMO. The offense put up record rushing totals in 2014 without Giacomini. Looking purely at run blocking, there was no drop-off going from Giacomini to Britt as a rookie. In fact, Britt was more powerful and probably a slight upgrade as a run blocker.

Britt was a great run blocker, and I agree, I think he was probably on the same level as Breno as a run blocker. But Britt was also a total turnstile at RT. Which is why he isn't playing tackle anymore.

Personally, I felt ambivalent about losing Carp at the time it happened. He had one solid season here following three bad ones, and with his weight struggles the fear of him getting in shape for a contract year had me leery. I also thought at the time that Britt was probably going to end up at guard anyway since he was so overmatched on the edge. I am surprised by Carps great play with the Jets, and am happy for his success. It very well might be a case of a different OL coach getting something out of him that Cable could not.

 

[hawknation2015]

Carpenter is a better player than Giacomini and was the bigger loss, IMO. The offense put up record rushing totals in 2014 without Giacomini. Looking purely at run blocking, there was no drop-off going from Giacomini to Britt as a rookie. In fact, Britt was more powerful and probably a slight upgrade as a run blocker.

Britt was a great run blocker, and I agree, I think he was probably on the same level as Breno as a run blocker. But Britt was also a total turnstile at RT. Which is why he isn't playing tackle anymore.

Personally, I felt ambivalent about losing Carp at the time it happened. He had one solid season here following three bad ones, and with his weight struggles the fear of him getting in shape for a contract year had me leery. I also thought at the time that Britt was probably going to end up at guard anyway since he was so overmatched on the edge. I am surprised by Carps great play with the Jets, and am happy for his success. It very well might be a case of a different OL coach getting something out of him that Cable could not.

If you recall, Breno was also a turnstile at RT who graded out near the very bottom in pass pro in both 2011 and 2012. He was spared that reputation in 2013 only because he missed seven games due to injury. It was definitely preferable to use players on rookie deals versus paying a guy who already had a track record of inconsistent play and who has now been terrible the last two seasons.

 

[kearly]

Ultimately, you are just arguing semantics. Some high school football programs do unofficially count "pancake" blocks. Every year, the best HS offensive linemen record 40+ pancake blocks in a season.

"He had over 40 pancake blocks propelling him to 1st Team All-State, county, and Non-Public honors."

"He was a reliable lock down LT having gave up no sacks and amassing well over 50 pancakes throughout the season."
http://theproedge.com/offensive-lineman/

That's a ridiculously awesome number, like I said, I only had maybe 3 of them. And Glowinsky, from those gifs, has 0. Putting a guy on his side or hip is not the same as dominating him backwards and putting him "flat on his back" as the definition is commonly understood to be.

This isn't a war of semantics but all the same maybe it is best that we pretend it is. Those are still good blocks by a young player. Even on the play where he got blown back two yards, he still did his job. Getting the job done doesn't have to be purely dominant, just doing the dirty work is often enough, and Glowinsky has plenty of nasty, so I think he'll do just fine for us.

 

[kearly]

If you recall, Breno was also a turnstile at RT who graded out near the very bottom in pass pro in both 2011 and 2012. He was spared that reputation in 2013 only because he missed seven games due to injury. It was definitely preferable to use players on rookie deals versus paying a guy who already had a track record of inconsistent play and who has now been terrible the last two seasons.

If we are talking about 2011 or 2012 I agree. But in 2013 (and in 2014) he was much better in protection.

 

[kearly]

I think conversely, there is a different lesson to learn from Carp's success: sometimes a change of scenery does wonders. Breno was a terrible OL in Green Bay, but had a nice career in Seattle for a guy that was dirt cheap to acquire. Patrick Lewis was able to resonate in Cable's system and play at a higher level than he had for Cleveland or Jacksonville. Who knows, maybe if Seattle had signed Wiz last offseason to play Center, he could have been for us what Carp was for the Jets. And when this kind of experiment doesn't work out as hoped (Drew Nowak), it's easy and painless to move on.

So even if we don't keep our guys, I'd like to see Seattle find some money for the OL to get Cable some vets. At least so far, Cable seems to be doing better with used products than new ones.

We can keep letting solid players go, replace them with question marks, and watch our OL unit flop around for 6-8 games every year. Or maybe we can put some money into this thing and allow some of them to blossom through a second or third contract.

This pretty much sums up my feelings. Continuity matters at the OL a great deal in pass protection. That doesn't mean they HAVE TO keep Okung or Sweezy but I do think the perks of continuity should factor into the dollar value they assign those players.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Hmmm . . . 8 games of postseason experience including 3 NFC championships and 2 Superbowls vs. 1 career start?

What to do, what to do . . .

Not to mention we are in the post season, where having a running game is very important. Sweez is an absolute beast in the run game, and Marshawn trusts/knows what to expect from his blocking.

 

[hawknation2015]

Ultimately, you are just arguing semantics. Some high school football programs do unofficially count "pancake" blocks. Every year, the best HS offensive linemen record 40+ pancake blocks in a season.

"He had over 40 pancake blocks propelling him to 1st Team All-State, county, and Non-Public honors."

"He was a reliable lock down LT having gave up no sacks and amassing well over 50 pancakes throughout the season."
http://theproedge.com/offensive-lineman/

That's a ridiculously awesome number, like I said, I only had maybe 3 of them. And Glowinsky, from those gifs, has 0. Putting a guy on his side or hip is not the same as dominating him backwards and putting him "flat on his back" as the definition is commonly understood to be.

This isn't a war of semantics but all the same maybe it is best that we pretend it is. Those are still good blocks by a young player. Even on the play where he got blown back two yards, he still did his job. Getting the job done doesn't have to be purely dominant, just doing the dirty work is often enough, and Glowinsky has plenty of nasty, so I think he'll do just fine for us.

Nope, you're wrong. Driving a defender flat on his back is a "pancake" block. And this is a good example of it by the most commonly accepted definition:

 

[Scottemojo]

Would that be a pancake stack block, since Lewis ended up under the pancake?

 

[hawknation2015]

Would that be a pancake stack block, since Lewis ended up under the pancake?

What can I say, Mad Dog loves pancakes.

One thing I didn't mention about this play was the disconcerting fact that no one else really blocked anyone. Bailey, whose attitude has always been kind of an issue for his run blocking, doesn't make much effort. Britt takes a poor angle and doesn't lock up his block, as he has done so often since his move to guard, so the defender basically just slips off him. Lewis's lack of quickness is exploited, as it has been by quicker players coming from the 2nd level. Fortunately, Lewis releases the player before materially restricting his path and thus avoids a hold. Gilliam is once again overpowered by a bigger, stronger athlete who tosses him aside. Boy, I miss Red Bryant. Helfet blocks . . . air. Tukuafu goes for a cut block and misses, though it's still pretty cool to see a 290+ lbs athlete move like that.

The next best thing about this play, other than the pancake that opens up the hole, is the fact that Christine Michael put his nose to the grindstone and decisively got us three yards closer to pay dirt. No dancing, just one step to read his blocks and he's off, accelerating through the hole before Bryant wraps him up.

 

[AgentDib]

I am of the opinion that if Sweezy tests free agency, someone is going to overpay for him, relative to what the Hawks can afford. Same goes for Okung. See: Carpenter, Giacomini.

I'm afraid of the same thing because I think both Sweezy and Okung are going to be looking for longer contracts. We've beat the Winner's Curse in free agency a few times in the past on short "prove it" type deals (Avril/Bennet) but unrestricted free agents looking for longer deals have nearly always ended up elsewhere.

Can anybody think of a single unrestricted FA that this front office gave a 4+ year contract to and it worked?

 

[hawknation2015]

I am of the opinion that if Sweezy tests free agency, someone is going to overpay for him, relative to what the Hawks can afford. Same goes for Okung. See: Carpenter, Giacomini.

I'm afraid of the same thing because I think both Sweezy and Okung are going to be looking for longer contracts. We've beat the Winner's Curse in free agency a few times in the past on short "prove it" type deals (Avril/Bennet) but unrestricted free agents looking for longer deals have nearly always ended up elsewhere.

Can anybody think of a single unrestricted FA that this front office gave a 4+ year contract to and it worked?

Michael Bennett

That deal has been the exception to the rule, and a year later Bennett was not too happy for having signed it, which goes to your point.

 

[Laloosh]

I am of the opinion that if Sweezy tests free agency, someone is going to overpay for him, relative to what the Hawks can afford. Same goes for Okung. See: Carpenter, Giacomini.

I'm afraid of the same thing because I think both Sweezy and Okung are going to be looking for longer contracts. We've beat the Winner's Curse in free agency a few times in the past on short "prove it" type deals (Avril/Bennet) but unrestricted free agents looking for longer deals have nearly always ended up elsewhere.

Can anybody think of a single unrestricted FA that this front office gave a 4+ year contract to and it worked?

Watching Okung move this year, I think he'll be overpaid where ever he winds up. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and let a guy go. I think we do with Okung (personally).