MacDonald riding with Geno

[SoulfishHawk]

Go Hawks

 

[pittpnthrs]

How about you don't try to define your opinion as 'calling it as it is' and say something like 'agree to disagree' instead, rather than being weirdly passive aggressive?


How else am I supposed to see it? You are literally the one who brought up how Geno would do in Houston and I replied to you. I gave you the link just in case your memory is really that bad.

Is this some sort of prank?

I did say "to save time". Just trying to help.

Eh your right. You mentioned the Texans and I asked the question. I should have reread the thread. That's on me.

 

[OrangeGravy]

This is getting tiring. I don't care about the stats, numbers, metrics, definitions of the "it" factor, or opinions of play. The facts are that Stroud has won 2 playoff games in his two seasons and is still alive in the playoffs and is apparent to continue having future success. Geno has done nothing in his 11 year career and will continue on that path for his remaining days. Let's just call it as it is and save time.

That is awesome

 

[Hotchy]

The only way I'd roll with Geno, is if his salary wasn't affecting our ability to strengthen our OL and other weaknesses. If it is, than we'll never get better . He's not the problem, but he's also not the solution

 

[toffee]

For this wild card weekend? Yes, it was--well, until Sam Darnold sucked so much he dropped all the numbers down to where Stroud now falls into the 'average' category. All the QB stats from this weekend are public knowledge. (Also, you conveniently missed his INT.)

As for 'not performing this season', CJ Stroud was bottom 10 in basically every single advanced metric this season--success rate, passer rating, QBR, ANY/A. Bottom 10. He didn't fall to 'middling' because he had some injuries to a couple of receivers. He was bottom 10.

Geno wasn't bottom 10 in any, and in Success Rate, Geno was just outside top 10 for the third straight season now.

And 'It Factor' has nothing to do with what your eyes see. 'It Factor' is a term you use when you don't actually know what you are describing or when you are trying to take your vague personal preferences and pretend they are something that actually impacts play on the field. You might as well be telling me how much Stroud looks like a QB or that you've seen Geno's girlfriend and she's a 6 at best.

I've watched Stroud in most of his games this year. Geno has bad moments (sometimes infuriatingly or heartbreakingly bad moments), but Stroud looked like he was on the struggle bus for most of his games.

And... tada! That's what the numbers say. Geno was the most accurate QB in the league and had a high success rate... but his Passer Rating and ANY/A numbers are below average. Geno was a good QB from play-to-play--better than most--but suffered a combination of bad luck, bad schemes, and bad choices at the worst moments.

Stroud, he doesn't even do well in numbers that don't rely on the number of 'weapons' he had. He was below average in both percentage of on-target throws and percentage of bad throws. But you're stepping into my scouting room telling me about 'It' Factor.

To paraphrase Brad Pitt as Billy Beane... "If he's a good passer, why doesn't he pass good*?"


* I think Stroud is going to be a good Quarterback. He didn't really have to deal with NFL pressure last year because his O-Line had a top 10 Time-to-Pressure grade. He had to learn on the fly how to deal with it this year and that's typically one of the hardest hurdles for young QBs transitioning to the NFL. My guess is, he'll be better at it next year. I would trade Geno, his age, and his contract for Stroud, his age, and his contract immediately if that was a thing you could do. It's not.

Are you trying to debate Geno with a member of geNO? Good luck!

 

[GemCity]

That is awesome

As someone who thinks we are somewhat limited QB wise and have to roll with Geno..all I can say is…

Yikes!

*Edit* this isn’t me disagreeing with you. Can’t debate facts.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

gePICK.

Facts

/sarcasm

 

[Scout]

The Eagles and Packers are proving that you can suck at quarterback and still reach the divisional round. People here are just too hung up on Geno. Quarterbacks don't solve the entire equation. Seatle needs a Josh Jacobs or Saquon Barkley.

The Ravens felt the roadblock to their post season was the RB position so they went and nabbed King Henry. We will see how that is all unfolds.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly why I think the Ravens beat the Bills. I'm pulling for the Bills; I just think the Ravens are gonna' run all over them.

 

[strohmin]

Geno is more like one of the guys. Gets along with other players, etc. But when it comes to leadership he just doesn't have it. As a QB, you have to be the leader on offense. Not sit on a bench all alone when things aren't going your way. He's not the type who can rally the troops when things are down. Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Peyton Manning, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Brock Purdy, Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, and Matt Stafford all are good leaders. Heck, you could even put Andy Dalton and Sam Darnold in that crowd too. Geno you can't. He talks a good game in his press conferences but doesn't exhibit any leadership on the field.

I wouldnt put Russell Wilson as a great leader. He was a great talent but even during the superbowl years, we had other leaders and he wasnt one of them. His over the top positivity isnt motivating anyone to play better. Russell's attitude ia great off the field which is probably why alot of his teammates love him regardless of what you hear in the media. However, his constant need to act like everything is sunshine and roses around him even when it isnt is off putting. As a leader in a competitive sport, you need to know when to be positive and when to get on guys who are holding the team back. I think Peyton Manning and Ray Lewis were the best Ive ever seen do this.

 

[strohmin]

It's hard for us to say. Unless we are in the huddle, the locker room, or know someone who has been there, we really can't tell one way or another from our vantage point.

Interesting that you mention Peyton Manning. The rap on him was that he wasn't a good mentor and/or didn't want to be a mentor, and that one of the reasons why the Colts let him walk in free agency was that they didn't think that a Favre/Rodgers scenario with Luck sitting for a couple years behind Manning would work. It also likely explains why you see Manning peddling insurance nowadays instead of coaching somewhere.

His focus was on trying to win with the team he was leading. Not trying to prepare his back up to replace him. He was still a great leader. Also as far as coaching, has he ever publicly expressed interest in coaching?

 

[Sperrydogg]

They absolutely don't watch other QBs on a regular basis and when they do they are laser focused on seeing whatever success they don't think Geno can generate and oblivious/make excuses for any issues.

When Lock stepped in for Geno last year, one of the things you saw in multiple posts here was about how at least he seemed to avoid sacks better than Geno. He actually was more prone to taking sacks. Whoops.

Every time Geno missed a pass this year, you could see people harp on how he's the problem. "You all want to throw Grubb or the O-Line under the bus, but if Geno didn't miss such and such throw" or whatever. Of course, it turns out, Geno was the most accurate QB in the NFL this year. Whoops.

Got into a discussion with somebody who specifically highlighted how Geno takes sacks on 3rd and longs and how you don't see Matt Stafford taking sacks in those situations. Stafford has more sacks on less attempts than Geno this year in 3rd and 10+. Whoops.



Like clockwork. Any time it's pointed out how little support Geno has gotten from his O-Line, running game, OC, etc.: "When are you going to stop making excuses for him?"

The moment it's pointed out he's actually outplayed *Insert X QB With Some Name Recognition*: "Well *Insert X* doesn't have any weapons!"

I'm trying to figure out how Geno exists in this weird fugue state where 2 out of his top 3 receivers and his number 1 TE are all not worth their contracts, his RBs have consistently had one of the most underperforming running games in the entire league for 3 seasons running, and yet he also has more weapons at the skill positions than apparently every other QB in the entire NFL.

And, personally, I would take our receiving corps over the Texans', but Stroud also had way more support from his running game, was asked to do way less than Geno was as a QB, and had the exact same Offensive Coordinator as he did last season (who's also been coaching in the NFL for the last 8 years instead of a rookie). Either all that stuff matters or none of it does. You can't preach about how all that stuff is excuses and then hide behind 'weapons' the moment it suits you.

Nobody would take Geno Smith in his mid 30s with his contract over CJ Stroud in his 20 with his contract. Not even me.

But Geno Smith would absolutely have done just as well--probably better--in Houston these last 2 years, especially this year. Stroud finally didn't have a week to decide what to do with the ball on every pass play and *surprise!* it's actually a lot harder to look like an amazing QB when you're dealing with instant pressure every other snap.

It doesn’t have to be third and long. Geno is great at taking sacks on third and short, third and medium, third and really short, third and mediocre, third and manageable doesn’t matter and if he doesn’t get sacked he has no problem throwing to a spot perfectly where it was supposed to go even though no one is there (which he didn’t know cause his eyes were closed)

Also since you know all things stat, how many more third downs did Stafford face. Geno had A LOT of three and outs, so I could imagine Stafford has more opportunities to get sacked on third down cause he has 3-4 every drive…. What does Geno avg 7-8 a game? Don’t really care about your answer cause Stafford is still in the playoffs making plays on 3rd and long and Geno is drinking wheat grass and eating an impossible whopper in mexico

 

[keasley45]

For this wild card weekend? Yes, it was--well, until Sam Darnold sucked so much he dropped all the numbers down to where Stroud now falls into the 'average' category. All the QB stats from this weekend are public knowledge. (Also, you conveniently missed his INT.)

As for 'not performing this season', CJ Stroud was bottom 10 in basically every single advanced metric this season--success rate, passer rating, QBR, ANY/A. Bottom 10. He didn't fall to 'middling' because he had some injuries to a couple of receivers. He was bottom 10.

Geno wasn't bottom 10 in any, and in Success Rate, Geno was just outside top 10 for the third straight season now.

And 'It Factor' has nothing to do with what your eyes see. 'It Factor' is a term you use when you don't actually know what you are describing or when you are trying to take your vague personal preferences and pretend they are something that actually impacts play on the field. You might as well be telling me how much Stroud looks like a QB or that you've seen Geno's girlfriend and she's a 6 at best.

I've watched Stroud in most of his games this year. Geno has bad moments (sometimes infuriatingly or heartbreakingly bad moments), but Stroud looked like he was on the struggle bus for most of his games.

And... tada! That's what the numbers say. Geno was the most accurate QB in the league and had a high success rate... but his Passer Rating and ANY/A numbers are below average. Geno was a good QB from play-to-play--better than most--but suffered a combination of bad luck, bad schemes, and bad choices at the worst moments.

Stroud, he doesn't even do well in numbers that don't rely on the number of 'weapons' he had. He was below average in both percentage of on-target throws and percentage of bad throws. But you're stepping into my scouting room telling me about 'It' Factor.

To paraphrase Brad Pitt as Billy Beane... "If he's a good passer, why doesn't he pass good*?"


* I think Stroud is going to be a good Quarterback. He didn't really have to deal with NFL pressure last year because his O-Line had a top 10 Time-to-Pressure grade. He had to learn on the fly how to deal with it this year and that's typically one of the hardest hurdles for young QBs transitioning to the NFL. My guess is, he'll be better at it next year. I would trade Geno, his age, and his contract for Stroud, his age, and his contract immediately if that was a thing you could do. It's not.

Game. Set. Match.

 

[strohmin]

The only way I'd roll with Geno, is if his salary wasn't affecting our ability to strengthen our OL and other weaknesses. If it is, than we'll never get better . He's not the problem, but he's also not the solution

Cant agree with this more. At the right price, I think Geno would be very good to have back.

 

[keasley45]

It doesn’t have to be third and long. Geno is great at taking sacks on third and short, third and medium, third and really short, third and mediocre, third and manageable doesn’t matter and if he doesn’t get sacked he has no problem throwing to a spot perfectly where it was supposed to go even though no one is there (which he didn’t know cause his eyes were closed)

Also since you know all things stat, how many more third downs did Stafford face. Geno had A LOT of three and outs, so I could imagine Stafford has more opportunities to get sacked on third down cause he has 3-4 every drive…. What does Geno avg 7-8 a game? Don’t really care about your answer cause Stafford is still in the playoffs making plays on 3rd and long and Geno is drinking wheat grass and eating an impossible whopper in mexico

Wyman has discussed the 3rd and short sacks. Schlereth has discussed them. If you look at the replays and film its obvious. The biggest issue with the 3rd down sacks is that Grubb would use that down as the 'Gotcha' down to try to hit his explosives without stopping to think about a chip block, checkdown or outlet. It happened again and again that we would go empty on 3rd and less than 5 or go single back and try to leak a RB into the flat too late (Giants 4th and 1) and try to hit something deep or just not protect long enough to do anything. The Minny game was a great example.

It starts with the playcall and play design. And has been also discussed, our line not only gave up pressure at a high rate, but gave up pressure up the middle, which makes a play like a throw away harder than it should be.

Thats not to excuse the sacks all together because Geno was often too aggressive himself in trying to force the bigger play. But the playcalling in 2024 little situationally to mitigate poor line play or avoid the potential for negative plays.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Holding the ball for a half an hour is just as much to blame. Geno did it WAY too much this season. It was maddening. Just like Darnold did in the playoff game. If you get a chance, listen to the play by play of the 5th sack in that game. Vikings play by play guy just lost his mind.

 

[Sonichound16]

What is maddening to me is when you see Geno occasionally move and escape the pocket and get good gains or find an open receiver and are like "Yeah, that's exactly what we needed there". The majority of the time though it seems like he is operating under some weird rule where he can't leave the pocket which leads to the sacks and interceptions. Not sure why he doesn't run more as it looks like he has that skill set when he chooses to use it.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well said. He makes a few too many business decisions. When you have open field, take it. He's very capable of running. He lost me a lot when he slid a yard short. In the same game that Daniel fricken Jones was putting his head down and doing everything he could to get first downs.

 

[Sperrydogg]

What is maddening to me is when you see Geno occasionally move and escape the pocket and get good gains or find an open receiver and are like "Yeah, that's exactly what we needed there". The majority of the time though it seems like he is operating under some weird rule where he can't leave the pocket which leads to the sacks and interceptions. Not sure why he doesn't run more as it looks like he has that skill set when he chooses to use it.

Exactly. I like when your qb plays with a sense of urgency like every single play has a purpose. Geno often seems too satisfied with living to fight another day cause like how this season ended, you don’t always get another day

 

[pittpnthrs]

Game. Set. Match.

Zero post season wins in 11 years. Checkmate