MacDonald riding with Geno

[DarkVictory23]

I'm more convinced than ever that people either don't watch any of these games or have no idea what they're watching. This phenomenon doesn't even need the Geno component. These people are completely oblivious to how often all of these QBs make poor decisions, throw bad balls right at defenders that get picked or often don't.
I implore everyone to actually watch these playoff games and pay particular attention to how often they do something questionable whether they get away with it or not.

For me this isn't about how good or bad Geno is in a vacuum. It's that I think everyone is massively overrating these other QBs that are outside of the Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar level.

They absolutely don't watch other QBs on a regular basis and when they do they are laser focused on seeing whatever success they don't think Geno can generate and oblivious/make excuses for any issues.

When Lock stepped in for Geno last year, one of the things you saw in multiple posts here was about how at least he seemed to avoid sacks better than Geno. He actually was more prone to taking sacks. Whoops.

Every time Geno missed a pass this year, you could see people harp on how he's the problem. "You all want to throw Grubb or the O-Line under the bus, but if Geno didn't miss such and such throw" or whatever. Of course, it turns out, Geno was the most accurate QB in the NFL this year. Whoops.

Got into a discussion with somebody who specifically highlighted how Geno takes sacks on 3rd and longs and how you don't see Matt Stafford taking sacks in those situations. Stafford has more sacks on less attempts than Geno this year in 3rd and 10+. Whoops.

Geno has more weapons at the skill positions. Stroud has Nico Collins at the WR and Mixon at RB and thats it and they both missed time this season due to injuries.

In no possible way would I ever take Geno Smith over Stroud. Neither would anybody else except for a few delusional Seahawk fans for that matter.

Like clockwork. Any time it's pointed out how little support Geno has gotten from his O-Line, running game, OC, etc.: "When are you going to stop making excuses for him?"

The moment it's pointed out he's actually outplayed *Insert X QB With Some Name Recognition*: "Well *Insert X* doesn't have any weapons!"

I'm trying to figure out how Geno exists in this weird fugue state where 2 out of his top 3 receivers and his number 1 TE are all not worth their contracts, his RBs have consistently had one of the most underperforming running games in the entire league for 3 seasons running, and yet he also has more weapons at the skill positions than apparently every other QB in the entire NFL.

And, personally, I would take our receiving corps over the Texans', but Stroud also had way more support from his running game, was asked to do way less than Geno was as a QB, and had the exact same Offensive Coordinator as he did last season (who's also been coaching in the NFL for the last 8 years instead of a rookie). Either all that stuff matters or none of it does. You can't preach about how all that stuff is excuses and then hide behind 'weapons' the moment it suits you.

Nobody would take Geno Smith in his mid 30s with his contract over CJ Stroud in his 20 with his contract. Not even me.

But Geno Smith would absolutely have done just as well--probably better--in Houston these last 2 years, especially this year. Stroud finally didn't have a week to decide what to do with the ball on every pass play and *surprise!* it's actually a lot harder to look like an amazing QB when you're dealing with instant pressure every other snap.

 

[toffee]

They absolutely don't watch other QBs on a regular basis and when they do they are laser focused on seeing whatever success they don't think Geno can generate and oblivious/make excuses for any issues.

When Lock stepped in for Geno last year, one of the things you saw in multiple posts here was about how at least he seemed to avoid sacks better than Geno. He actually was more prone to taking sacks. Whoops.

Every time Geno missed a pass this year, you could see people harp on how he's the problem. "You all want to throw Grubb or the O-Line under the bus, but if Geno didn't miss such and such throw" or whatever. Of course, it turns out, Geno was the most accurate QB in the NFL this year. Whoops.

Got into a discussion with somebody who specifically highlighted how Geno takes sacks on 3rd and longs and how you don't see Matt Stafford taking sacks in those situations. Stafford has more sacks on less attempts than Geno this year in 3rd and 10+. Whoops.



Like clockwork. Any time it's pointed out how little support Geno has gotten from his O-Line, running game, OC, etc.: "When are you going to stop making excuses for him?"

The moment it's pointed out he's actually outplayed *Insert X QB With Some Name Recognition*: "Well *Insert X* doesn't have any weapons!"

I'm trying to figure out how Geno exists in this weird fugue state where 2 out of his top 3 receivers and his number 1 TE are all not worth their contracts, his RBs have consistently had one of the most underperforming running games in the entire league for 3 seasons running, and yet he also has more weapons at the skill positions than apparently every other QB in the entire NFL.

And, personally, I would take our receiving corps over the Texans', but Stroud also had way more support from his running game, was asked to do way less than Geno was as a QB, and had the exact same Offensive Coordinator as he did last season (who's also been coaching in the NFL for the last 8 years instead of a rookie). Either all that stuff matters or none of it does. You can't preach about how all that stuff is excuses and then hide behind 'weapons' the moment it suits you.

Nobody would take Geno Smith in his mid 30s with his contract over CJ Stroud in his 20 with his contract. Not even me.

But Geno Smith would absolutely have done just as well--probably better--in Houston these last 2 years, especially this year. Stroud finally didn't have a week to decide what to do with the ball on every pass play and *surprise!* it's actually a lot harder to look like an amazing QB when you're dealing with instant pressure every other snap.

You are right, I so so enjoy noticing guys pinched their noses so hard that they bled when they have to praise Geno after a win. Without fail, lol, after a short sentence of praise followed with a BUT, then an essay on how many throws coulda woulda etc etc.,

 

[RiverDog]

Geno is more like one of the guys. Gets along with other players, etc. But when it comes to leadership he just doesn't have it. As a QB, you have to be the leader on offense. Not sit on a bench all alone when things aren't going your way. He's not the type who can rally the troops when things are down. Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Peyton Manning, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Brock Purdy, Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, and Matt Stafford all are good leaders. Heck, you could even put Andy Dalton and Sam Darnold in that crowd too. Geno you can't. He talks a good game in his press conferences but doesn't exhibit any leadership on the field.

It's hard for us to say. Unless we are in the huddle, the locker room, or know someone who has been there, we really can't tell one way or another from our vantage point.

Interesting that you mention Peyton Manning. The rap on him was that he wasn't a good mentor and/or didn't want to be a mentor, and that one of the reasons why the Colts let him walk in free agency was that they didn't think that a Favre/Rodgers scenario with Luck sitting for a couple years behind Manning would work. It also likely explains why you see Manning peddling insurance nowadays instead of coaching somewhere.

 

[toffee]

It's hard for us to say. Unless we are in the huddle, the locker room, or know someone who has been there, we really can't tell one way or another from our vantage point.

You nailed it, we just don't know. Leadership comes in different shapes and forms, Wilson't giving motivational speeches on the sideline didn't work in Denver, lots of side eyes.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Like clockwork. Any time it's pointed out how little support Geno has gotten from his O-Line, running game, OC, etc.: "When are you going to stop making excuses for him?"

The moment it's pointed out he's actually outplayed *Insert X QB With Some Name Recognition*: "Well *Insert X* doesn't have any weapons!"

I'm trying to figure out how Geno exists in this weird fugue state where 2 out of his top 3 receivers and his number 1 TE are all not worth their contracts, his RBs have consistently had one of the most underperforming running games in the entire league for 3 seasons running, and yet he also has more weapons at the skill positions than apparently every other QB in the entire NFL.

And, personally, I would take our receiving corps over the Texans', but Stroud also had way more support from his running game, was asked to do way less than Geno was as a QB, and had the exact same Offensive Coordinator as he did last season (who's also been coaching in the NFL for the last 8 years instead of a rookie). Either all that stuff matters or none of it does. You can't preach about how all that stuff is excuses and then hide behind 'weapons' the moment it suits you.

Nobody would take Geno Smith in his mid 30s with his contract over CJ Stroud in his 20 with his contract. Not even me.

But Geno Smith would absolutely have done just as well--probably better--in Houston these last 2 years, especially this year. Stroud finally didn't have a week to decide what to do with the ball on every pass play and *surprise!* it's actually a lot harder to look like an amazing QB when you're dealing with instant pressure every other snap.

Let's look at it from the other side. Numbers don't always equate to success. People want to hang on to stats like his accuracy, yardage, comebacks, etc,,,when trying to defend him along with comparing him to other QB's when none of that matters. How successful has Geno been? How successful has he ever been?

You are hard set in believing Geno would have done just as well or even better than Stroud in Houston and I don't see how. There's nothing that should indicate that to anybody. You cap on the talent positions, but yet it's a lot easier throwing to 3 competent receivers than just only 1. Different situations don't automatically mean more success.

Here's the biggest difference between Stroud and Smith - Stroud is in his 2nd season on a team with legit deficiencies and he's already won 2 playoff games. Geno has zero in his entire career. What clearly seperates Stroud from Geno is the "IT" factor. Stroud has it. Geno doesn't. Thinking that giving Geno strengths at every position is going to change that is asinine. It won't. To those that can't see the truth in Geno,,,,,well i'm sorry. He is what he is and making excuses as to why he continues to be who he is,,,,that's just telling to the QB he actually is.

Let's look at the positive though. Only another season (maybe two) and we won't have to worry about him anymore.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Let's look at it from the other side. Numbers don't always equate to success. People want to hang on to stats like his accuracy, yardage, comebacks, etc,,,when trying to defend him along with comparing him to other QB's when none of that matters. How successful has Geno been? How successful has he ever been?

You are hard set in believing Geno would have done just as well or even better than Stroud in Houston and I don't see how. There's nothing that should indicate that to anybody. You cap on the talent positions, but yet it's a lot easier throwing to 3 competent receivers than just only 1. Different situations don't automatically mean more success.

Here's the biggest difference between Stroud and Smith - Stroud is in his 2nd season on a team with legit deficiencies and he's already won 2 playoff games. Geno has zero in his entire career. What clearly seperates Stroud from Geno is the "IT" factor. Stroud has it. Geno doesn't. Thinking that giving Geno strengths at every position is going to change that is asinine. It won't. To those that can't see the truth in Geno,,,,,well i'm sorry. He is what he is and making excuses as to why he continues to be who he is,,,,that's just telling to the QB he actually is.

Let's look at the positive though. Only another season (maybe two) and we won't have to worry about him anymore.

I'm confused. Do you realize how nonsensical it is to marry both your 'weapons matter' argument to a 'QB Wins' rant? And then 'It' factor of all things?

First of all, QB Wins is not a real thing. Wins are a team stat. The QB is one player on one third of the units a football team fields every week. Stroud didn't win a playoff game on Saturday. The Houston Texans did and that was led by their defense. The offense was merely mediocre, and Stroud was below average amongst playoff QBs so far this weekend. If Geno had a defense that played that good against the Niners in 2022, he'd ALSO have a playoff victory.

Second, I didn't 'cap on the talent positions'. You are the 'QB wins, supporting cast is an excuse' guy. I was dragging you for your blatant hypocrisy in talking about these things to defend Stroud not performing this year. Whenever it's pointed out where our team fails Geno, it's his fault. Geno outperforms Stroud this year? Well, he doesn't have weapons.
I mean, you literally fell right back into your "making excuses" schtick at the end of this post. Pick a side dude, because if you keep moving those goal posts back and forth over and over, they're going to break.

Third, on the 'It factor'... my man, you belong in this room:

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not much of a QB when you have to have the “right” OC AND the ”right” OLine and the “right” WRs and TEs AND the ”right” RBs. If everything is perfect you could slot most any PS player there and will succeed. And as an added bonus you don’t have to pay them $30m a year

We all bitched for years that Russell Wilson should've been provided all of these things.

The majority of premier quarterbacks in the league have not won a Super Bowl. Mahomes has only done it with great supporting casts, especially defensively.

The concept of quarterbacks needing support is not coping with a bad quarterback. It's understanding the extremely basic fundamental nature of the sport. Its a team sport.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm confused. Do you realize how nonsensical it is to marry both your 'weapons matter' argument to a 'QB Wins' rant? And then 'It' factor of all things?

First of all, QB Wins is not a real thing. Wins are a team stat. The QB is one player on one third of the units a football team fields every week. Stroud didn't win a playoff game on Saturday. The Houston Texans did and that was led by their defense. The offense was merely mediocre, and Stroud was below average amongst playoff QBs so far this weekend. If Geno had a defense that played that good against the Niners in 2022, he'd ALSO have a playoff victory.

Second, I didn't 'cap on the talent positions'. You are the 'QB wins, supporting cast is an excuse' guy. I was dragging you for your blatant hypocrisy in talking about these things to defend Stroud not performing this year. Whenever it's pointed out where our team fails Geno, it's his fault. Geno outperforms Stroud this year? Well, he doesn't have weapons.
I mean, you literally fell right back into your "making excuses" schtick at the end of this post. Pick a side dude, because if you keep moving those goal posts back and forth over and over, they're going to break.

Third, on the 'It factor'... my man, you belong in this room:

 

[Maelstrom787]

Jared Goff is putting up some of the best stats in the league and is part of a juggernaut. He's the same guy the Rams let go after winning nothing with him except a Super Bowl appearance in which they put up 3 points.

Matthew Stafford got traded from the reeling Lions to the Rams in the same trade. He won a Super Bowl right away when he couldn't win anything in Detroit.

Quarterbacks are not this unchanging entity that can be expected to perform at the same level due to their inherent qualities as players. It is just as, if not more, important to surround them with a talented and cohesive supporting cast.

 

[SeaWolv]

I'm more convinced than ever that people either don't watch any of these games or have no idea what they're watching. This phenomenon doesn't even need the Geno component. These people are completely oblivious to how often all of these QBs make poor decisions, throw bad balls right at defenders that get picked or often don't.
I implore everyone to actually watch these playoff games and pay particular attention to how often they do something questionable whether they get away with it or not.

For me this isn't about how good or bad Geno is in a vacuum. It's that I think everyone is massively overrating these other QBs that are outside of the Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar level.

Fantasy football forced me to watch other teams and get to know their dynamics. I highly recommend it.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Jared Goff is putting up some of the best stats in the league and is part of a juggernaut. He's the same guy the Rams let go after winning nothing with him except a Super Bowl appearance in which they put up 3 points.

Matthew Stafford got traded from the reeling Lions to the Rams in the same trade. He won a Super Bowl right away when he couldn't win anything in Detroit.

Quarterbacks are not this unchanging entity that can be expected to perform at the same level due to their inherent qualities as players. It is just as, if not more, important to surround them with a talented and cohesive supporting cast.

He isn't playing like the same guy he was at the Rams. Goff got better, significantly.

 

[SeaWolv]

Stroud has Nico Collins at the WR and Mixon at RB and thats it and they both missed time this season due to injuries.

Tank Dell would like a word...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He isn't playing like the same guy he was at the Rams. Goff got better, significantly.

No Doubt. Goff turned out to be a hell of a QB. And clutch.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He isn't playing like the same guy he was at the Rams. Goff got better, significantly.

Could it be that environment and support has a ton to do with player development? Seriously - isn't it logical in a fairly obvious way that most quarterbacks are able to look significantly improved when they have an unstoppable rushing attack, good receiving options, and the great wall of China in front of them?

 

[SeaWolv]

He isn't playing like the same guy he was at the Rams. Goff got better, significantly.

Did he?





2024 looks a lot like 2018.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Did he?

View attachment 69056

2024 looks a lot like 2018.

Gee, let's see, what did the Rams rushing offense look like in 2018-

Oh, of course, that's right - it was amazing and third best in the NFL.

In the same year that Russell had his most efficient year behind the TOP rushing offense in the NFL.

 

[SeaWolv]

Gee, let's see, what did the Rams rushing offense look like in 2018-

Oh, of course, that's right - it was amazing and third best in the NFL.

In the same year that Russell had his most efficient year behind the TOP rushing offense in the NFL.

Yep, harder to run play action when your running game ain't gettin it done.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Goff is still better than geMEH, and has been for awhile.

As far as Russ comparisons, Russ was damn good behind a sh** o line, more than once. This whole blaming the O Line for everything is a little bit of a stretch. Look how many years Russ ran for his life. Yet he produced.
Does an o line impact how a QB plays? Absolutely. But decision making isn't always on the O Line, it's often on the guy under center.

 

[SeaWolv]

Goff is still better than geMEH, and has been for awhile.

As far as Russ comparisons, Russ was damn good behind a sh** o line, more than once. This whole blaming the O Line for everything is a little bit of a stretch. Look how many years Russ ran for his life. Yet he produced.

Because Wilson could create more with roll outs from the pocket because he could see the field better to throw from or run.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And because he was light years better than gePICK ever has been or ever will be. Best QB in the team history, SB champion and borderline HOF QB. Geno is none of those things.