MacDonald riding with Geno

[SeaWolv]

Btw l, i dont disagree that he tends to force balls to guys, but that seems to be more a premeditated decision as it is abresult of poor vision. Like his INTs, when he wants to throw to a guy, he does it. And yeah, thats a stubbornness that needs to be remedied, 100%

He also tries to do to much or what I call hero ball. Sometimes that's him getting stuck on receivers and matchups and sometimes that's him thinking he can sneak a ball in tight windows a bit later then he should.

 

[keasley45]

The problem with this argument is you want to be from the stance of 'I'm not saying he's trash', but then you create false narratives that severely misstate what he's done... essentially calling him trash. 'Average on his best days' is not even remotely accurate. Cannot beat a good team is not remotely accurate.

Geno wasn't average in Week 4 of 2022 vs. Detroit or New Orleans the next week. He wasn't average vs. Detroit or Dallas last year. He wasn't average vs. Detroit or the last game of THIS season.

In 2022 and 2023, Geno's stats vs. winning teams placed him above average (ranked against 32 other starting QBs) was above average in ANY/A, Passer Rating, and Success Rate (top 10).

You can't try to be the 'reasonable' voice and then try to slide in two very slanted (and inaccurate) takes immediately after.

If you want to have an argument about comparative value and draft strategy and all that, that's fine but you can't start from a fundamentally dishonest place about what Geno represents. And I'm open to that argument. Geno is not getting younger. If you hit on a draft pick, rookie contracts represent by far the best value for dollar you can get. Those are two significant knocks on Geno.

Additionally, with Grubb gone our new OC might have a very specific vision for our offense and Geno is a pocket passer with wheels when he scrambles. That's not a fit for a RPO heavy offense like the Ravens and Eagles run or like the Bills who use designed QB runs as a significant portion of their offense.

But, I would fundamentally disagree with the 'we're not 1-2 pieces and an OC away' argument. We would have been a playoff team if we had Shane Waldron this year. A guy who got fired halfway through this season. That's how close we were (and how far away Grubb was from being NFL ready).

To quote John63, THIS^^^^^!

 

[SeaWolv]

Or he’s just really good? It’s not true just because you guys want it to be true. He was uber talented and a #1 pick. Hes not a 5th round pick.

Than why did they trade for Stafford?

 

[keasley45]

He also tries to do to much or what I call hero ball. Sometimes that's him getting stuck on receivers and matchups and sometimes that's him thinking he can sneak a ball in tight windows a bit later than he should.

True, but when the emperical data shows that 98.4 percent of the time (non tips, non deflections, non bad route INTs) he is on target regardless of how open his guy is... i mean, he leads the league...

So its a problem, but not the insurmountable issue his detractors try to make it out to be.

And this year... i mean, if your play designs suck to the point your #1 wr gets on the horn mid game and curses at the OC, your offense consistently cant get guys open in the redzone, and you have no run game to speak of, its not hard to understand how a guy who is frustrated with plays not working well enough to score, forces the issue.

Its not right and needs to be corrected. Its inmature and shortsighted. But its NOT the fatal flaw its made out to be.

 

[SeaWolv]

Sure you’re right it could happen. The point is though what should the Seahawks do? People that think Seattle should do something else are just aligning with historical trends. So even if you and Keasely want to roll with Geno(which is valid by the way) the people not agreeing have a reasonable take too, that’s my only point.

The problem is there are no realistic ways to get our QBotF in 2024. Geno is fine for now and we have a lot of other issues to deal that are more critical. We have no pass pro and no run game due to our interior OLine and our defense needs help creating more pressure.

 

[keasley45]

Or he’s just really good? It’s not true just because you guys want it to be true. He was uber talented and a #1 pick. Hes not a 5th round pick.

Sure you’re right it could happen. The point is though what should the Seahawks do? People that think Seattle should do something else are just aligning with historical trends. So even if you and Keasely want to roll with Geno(which is valid by the way) the people not agreeing have a reasonable take too, that’s my only point.

We can disagree on this and both have a reasonable argument for doing so. Sadly this debate gets personal and bleeds into every post for some reason from many in here.

Ozzy, McVay gave him away. He was done with him because unless everything was going perfectly, Goff would F up.

From an ESPN article specifically about McVay and Goff...

"The situation around him affected his game. If the O-line wasn't always firing or if he was missing a wide receiver, things didn't go well," a team source said. "If he had a clean pocket and everything was going perfect, he's a top-five quarterback."

'Some decisions work; some don't': Why Rams' Sean McVay-Jared Goff partnership eroded

In 2018, Goff and McVay led the Rams to the Super Bowl and looked to have built a permanent foundation. Two years later, the QB was gone. Where did it all go wrong?

www.espn.com

So flat out people in the know around Goff counter your own argument. Like even good QBs, Goff was so ineffective in MCvays system if he wasnt getting great protection and the run game wasnt working that he wabted him gone.

So now, back to Geno and his protection and offense...

Like the article says, Goff is playing like he is because everything is great. When it isnt? Well we know what happened when it wasnt.

 

[GemCity]

Not sure who's ranking you're looking at but PFF has the Patriots at #32, Seahawks #31, Bengals #30, Texans #29, Titans #28 for 2024.

Seahawks were #28 in 2023, and #27 in 2022.

Wilson had #25 in 2021, #14 in 2020, #27 in 2019, #18 in 2018, #27 in 2017, #32 in 2016, #30 in 2015, #19 in 2014 and #27 in 2013.

Potato / Potatoe

 

[GemCity]

How do you think Smith would fair in Houston with that 31st ranked Oline if he can't get it done in Seattle with a 30th ranked Oline? Last I checked Stroud and the Texans just won a playoff game with that 31st ranked Oline.

Bottom line is maybe it's time to stop making excuses and just accept the fact that Geno is who he is.

Perhaps an anomaly? I’d argue that Stroud is going to have a much better career than Geno. No doubt he’s a generational talent.

Having a poor O-line is not an excuse. It’s the single most important element to any QBs performance. But, how many different variables can one throw out here? If he’s the most efficient passer, the INTs get brought up. If his 4th quarter comebacks get brought up, he can’t run like Lamar Jackson.

Do I think Geno can take us to the promise land? No. I truly don’t. Can anyone say that for fact? No.

But, there’s not many QBs that would shine in last years offense with our line.

I’d rather build there first and as this thread title suggests, roll with Geno in the interim.

 

[Ozzy]

It seems the grievances against Geno are pulled out of a hat at random around here. There’s no cohesive set of real complaints other than his rate of interceptions needs to go down - which may be true, but the considerations for poor OLine play and the pass heavy playcalling need to be factored in.

Anyone flat out saying Geno needs to go isn’t making that claim based on a rational set of information. Just irrational thoughts about how to improve the team based on their perception and not based on reality.

Yeah I disagree here. It’s rational to think if you save 30 million by going cheaper you can massively impact other areas of your team. Minnesota is the perfect example of this and it worked out well. Again this isn’t to say maybe the best option is to keep Geno. I just don’t think saying every other option is irrational. Many people think Geno is gone. Babs said it on the radio he thinks Geno is gone.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Yeah I disagree here. It’s rational to think if you save 30 million by going cheaper you can massively impact other areas of your team. Minnesota is the perfect example of this and it worked out well. Again this isn’t to say maybe the best option is to keep Geno. I just don’t think saying every other option is irrational. Many people think Geno is gone. Babs said it on the radio he thinks Geno is gone.

You just did what I said in my post.

 

[Ozzy]

Ozzy, McVay gave him away. He was done with him because unless everything was going perfectly, Goff would F up.

From an ESPN article specifically about McVay and Goff...

"The situation around him affected his game. If the O-line wasn't always firing or if he was missing a wide receiver, things didn't go well," a team source said. "If he had a clean pocket and everything was going perfect, he's a top-five quarterback."

'Some decisions work; some don't': Why Rams' Sean McVay-Jared Goff partnership eroded

In 2018, Goff and McVay led the Rams to the Super Bowl and looked to have built a permanent foundation. Two years later, the QB was gone. Where did it all go wrong?

www.espn.com

So flat out people in the know around Goff counter your own argument. Like even good QBs, Goff was so ineffective in MCvays system if he wasnt getting great protection and the run game wasnt working that he wabted him gone.

So now, back to Geno and his protection and offense...

Like the article says, Goff is playing like he is because everything is great. When it isnt? Well we know what happened when it wasnt.

Mcvay is a genius though and knew Goff wasn’t the perfect fit for his offense. You could argue the lions gave Stafford away too. I’ll say this if Geno played remotely like he’s played here McVay wouldn’t given Geno away too.

I don’t even fully disagree. We could be a 12 win team next year with a better line. If you give Geno a big raise though it severely limits you upgrading that unit. I don’t think Geno stays at his current rate. If John finds a way to get his guy of the future, add some pieces to the line and have Geno one more year cheap? I’d sign up for it for sure. I’m not even massively different than you guys big picture I just don’t think Geno is elite and he is much closer to average and it will tend even further that way as he gets older. It does for everyone other than Brady.

 

[Ozzy]

You just did what I said in my post.

I did? Unless I’m misunderstanding you which is possible as I’m doing 4 things at once and checking this place out. I just don’t agree Geno extension is the only rational or viable answer

 

[RiverDog]

Geno has shown plenty of leadership, look how he was with Lock. Dude was celebrating on the sidelines for him. A lot of QBs just stand there and pout. And how do you know he WOULDN'T be a good mentor? I think he would be.

I never said that Geno wouldn't be a good mentor. All I said was that we don't know that he would. And I hardly think that jumping up and down on the sidelines makes a person a good mentor. All it means is that he's happy that his team and/or teammate is doing well.

 

[keasley45]

I did? Unless I’m misunderstanding you which is possible as I’m doing 4 things at once and checking this place out. I just don’t agree Geno extension is the only rational or viable answer

So what would you do then if next yearx eith an improved line, improved scheme and a more valanced attack, Geno posts 4500yds, 72% completion, and 35 / 13 Tds, wins 2 playoff games, and is top 7 qbr?

Do you let him walk or sign him? Because if you choose to wait this year, you either oay out the nose for him or let him walk and look like an idiot when you could have gotten him on the cheap (relatively speaking) the year before.

 

[CallMeADawg]

So what would you do then if next yearx eith an improved line, improved scheme and a more valanced attack, Geno posts 4500yds, 72% completion, and 35 / 13 Tds, wins 2 playoff games, and is top 7 qbr?

Do you let him walk or sign him? Because if you choose to wait this year, you either oay out the nose for him or let him walk and look like an idiot when you could have gotten him on the cheap (relatively speaking) the year before.

I would add on top of this that you know you are upgrading the OC position and you have the draft capital to improve the line. It’s not far fetched to assume that Geno will post much better numbers with those two changes in place.

There’s more to the calculus here than just simple hot takes and the massive dose of recency bias that dominates the narrative on Geno around here.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Geno has shown plenty of leadership, look how he was with Lock. Dude was celebrating on the sidelines for him. A lot of QBs just stand there and pout. And how do you know he WOULDN'T be a good mentor? I think he would be.

So that’s a GeYes for a mentorship role?

 

[Subzero717]

I guess I don’t get your point. There is no guarantee Geno does anything close to what Goff is doing if he was in that system. Coaching matters. Execution matters too.

Goff actually had a couple of really good years with the Rams 4,700 yards, 32 touchdowns and a rating over 100. He was really good before going to Detroit

It kind of makes me giggle when I hear people compare Geno to Goff. I don't know why they feel compelled to compare them. They're both tall, prototypical pocket passers? Goff was the #1 pick in the draft. He took the Rams to the Super Bowl. His current teammates love him. From everything I've heard it was a personality thing with him and McVay and I have no way of knowing if it is true but there is a group text that got leaked. If he "flamed out" with the Rams what are we talking about? Geno literally just had a nearly identical season to his last in LA.

 

[ruffENrowdy]

So what would you do then if next yearx eith an improved line, improved scheme and a more valanced attack, Geno posts 4500yds, 72% completion, and 35 / 13 Tds, wins 2 playoff games, and is top 7 qbr?

Do you let him walk or sign him? Because if you choose to wait this year, you either oay out the nose for him or let him walk and look like an idiot when you could have gotten him on the cheap (relatively speaking) the year before.

I would take that gamble, there's zero chance he would get those numbers.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I would take that gamble, there's zero chance he would get those numbers.

There’s always more than a 0% chance for matters like this though.

 

[chrispy]

Playing hypothetical Geno playoff team matches...What does the Steeler's season look like with Geno as QB?

I don't think they lose 5 straight to end the season.