Lynch vs. Alexander

[MORGULON]

The mind set /style of these two backs are about as far apart as it gets. SA was all about self preservation, choosing to live to carry the ball another day. It was oft times less than admirable, but it was a strategy that obviously served him, and the team, quite well.

Lynch? Marshawn cares little about risk of injury. He is a demon and punishes would-be tacklers, fighting for every yard, even after hitting the wall. In the short term, his style is more exciting and for the most part, preferred. In the long term? There may be no long term. I'm glad he continues to deliver after getting paid and I certainly hope he has invested well.

Defenses hated both men. I think what pizzed off alot of us with SA, was he was not a small back, yet ran like one. He could be arm tackled and was quick to hit the turf to avoid contact. If he were smaller, like most scat (type) backs, nobody would have thought twice about his methodology. I was never a big fan but I am grateful for his service to this team. I rank him slightly ahead of Lynch, but behind Warner and John L.

I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.

 

[HawkWow]

The more I think about it, as good as ML has been, I would likely rate him just a tad higher than Chris Warren. Though ML should distance himself from CW by this time next year. Warren had some off field trouble that may have diminished his legacy, but being a 3 time pro-bowler (with a 1600 yd season) who also excelled returning kicks, should be worthy of mention. IMO, they rank like this:

John L.
Warner
SA
Lynch
Warren
* even as a FB, no "top Hawk" RB list is complete without mention of Mack Strong.

 

[HawkWow]

The mind set /style of these two backs are about as far apart as it gets. SA was all about self preservation, choosing to live to carry the ball another day. It was oft times less than admirable, but it was a strategy that obviously served him, and the team, quite well.

Lynch? Marshawn cares little about risk of injury. He is a demon and punishes would-be tacklers, fighting for every yard, even after hitting the wall. In the short term, his style is more exciting and for the most part, preferred. In the long term? There may be no long term. I'm glad he continues to deliver after getting paid and I certainly hope he has invested well.

Defenses hated both men. I think what pizzed off alot of us with SA, was he was not a small back, yet ran like one. He could be arm tackled and was quick to hit the turf to avoid contact. If he were smaller, like most scat (type) backs, nobody would have thought twice about his methodology. I was never a big fan but I am grateful for his service to this team. I rank him slightly ahead of Lynch, but behind Warner and John L.

I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.

I don't disagree with any of your post. I also met SA and felt the same way. He was arrogant and quite cavalier. But as a back, his accomplishments cannot be taken lightly. It is difficult for me to rank him higher than ML, I just think ML needs a couple more years with us to over take SA. I expressed some feelings, similar to yours, in another thread and was rediculed, lambasted and called a liar (I wasn't lying). I was so upset by my unpopularity that I considered taking my own life. Hahahahahaha!

Sometimes, some refuse to see negativity in (their) childhood idols. That was what I took away from that attack. Silly boys that grew up wearing #37 pajamas = Pajama people. SA did give us that "soft" label but the dude could smell an endzone and was very instrumental in getting us to the promised land. I am grateful to him and would probably like him more if not for his cult-like following.

 

[Seahawker86]

I dont even understand how ANY could even say Shaun Alexander. I mean yeah the guy was good, but EVERYONE and their grand mother knows that he had one of the most dominant offense lines TO EVER PLAY THE GAME that year and along with other years. He wasn't a work horse, he barely buised you, he wasn't a speed demon. Some even consider him to be soft. Listen, im not saying he is all these things, the dude broke records and brought us to the Superbowl. But you know what? He wasn't the other one. Matt Hasselbeck was in the prime of his career and was lights out. Marshawn is a bruiser who runs hard and wears down defenses. Time and time again this guy just moves the pill. Where Shaun Alexanders offensive line made Shaun Alexander play better, Marshawn Lynch is making our mediocre offense line play better. Russell Okung is no Walter Jones, James Carpenter is no Chad Futch, Unger is really good but its no Tobek and of course Robinson is no Mack Strong. NUFF SAID!! there really is no more room for argument now so we can lock this topic lol j/k

 

[MORGULON]

The mind set /style of these two backs are about as far apart as it gets. SA was all about self preservation, choosing to live to carry the ball another day. It was oft times less than admirable, but it was a strategy that obviously served him, and the team, quite well.

Lynch? Marshawn cares little about risk of injury. He is a demon and punishes would-be tacklers, fighting for every yard, even after hitting the wall. In the short term, his style is more exciting and for the most part, preferred. In the long term? There may be no long term. I'm glad he continues to deliver after getting paid and I certainly hope he has invested well.

Defenses hated both men. I think what pizzed off alot of us with SA, was he was not a small back, yet ran like one. He could be arm tackled and was quick to hit the turf to avoid contact. If he were smaller, like most scat (type) backs, nobody would have thought twice about his methodology. I was never a big fan but I am grateful for his service to this team. I rank him slightly ahead of Lynch, but behind Warner and John L.

I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.

I don't disagree with any of your post. I also met SA and felt the same way. He was arrogant and quite cavalier. But as a back, his accomplishments cannot be taken lightly. It is difficult for me to rank him higher than ML, I just think ML needs a couple more years with us to over take SA. I expressed some feelings, similar to yours, in another thread and was rediculed, lambasted and called a liar (I wasn't lying). I was so upset by my unpopularity that I considered taking my own life. Hahahahahaha!

Sometimes, some refuse to see negativity in (their) childhood idols. That was what I took away from that attack. Silly boys that grew up wearing #37 pajamas = Pajama people. SA did give us that "soft" label but the dude could smell an endzone and was very instrumental in getting us to the promised land. I am grateful to him and would probably like him more if not for his cult-like following.

Hahahahaha . I agree, the only thing that SA has over Lynch at this point is longevity. For a pure running back, and this is my personal opinion... I think Curt Warner is the best to put on a Hawk uniform. He had it all and had it not for the shit-turf NFL stadiums used back then, there wouldn't of been any question.
Warren, nice back with a lot of talent (and problems) which I think unfairly knocks him down a notch.

John L Williams...enough said
Mack Strong...one of the best FB of all time, not just Seattle

Glad you didnt take your life.

 

[TheRealDTM]

Please refresh your memories of a healthy shaun alexander. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2TfY03kG4

DAT SPEED

 

[HawkWow]

I respect this well thought out post although I dont agree with all of it. Do you rank SA ahead of Lynch due to total yards or more break away long runs? That I will give to SA. I thought he was an excellent back for about a four or five year stretch IIRC yet his style drove me crazy and the "fall to the ground like a battered wife" mentallity he seemed to run with embarrased me. IT WAS the national perception of the Seattle Seahawks.

If you go to other fans boards (thank you BlueThunder) youll find that our identity is nasty defense and you guessed it... Beef Moe

Hey everyone, for those of you that rank SA ahead of #24, I get it. He was as close to a bona fide sports star for Seattle. And it had been a little while. Just trying to have a little discussion. I met SA once and felt kind of underwhelmed. Everyone on TV talked about how big of a back he was. I'm 6'1" 200 lbs and felt like he was half a foot shorter and not that big. He also was kind of a smart ass to a couple of people I was with. I told him to get f*#@d.
That could also taint my view of him a little bit. He always came of as this "awww shucks" choir boy... I think it's a crock of shit.[/quote]

I don't disagree with any of your post. I also met SA and felt the same way. He was arrogant and quite cavalier. But as a back, his accomplishments cannot be taken lightly. It is difficult for me to rank him higher than ML, I just think ML needs a couple more years with us to over take SA. I expressed some feelings, similar to yours, in another thread and was rediculed, lambasted and called a liar (I wasn't lying). I was so upset by my unpopularity that I considered taking my own life. Hahahahahaha!

Sometimes, some refuse to see negativity in (their) childhood idols. That was what I took away from that attack. Silly boys that grew up wearing #37 pajamas = Pajama people. SA did give us that "soft" label but the dude could smell an endzone and was very instrumental in getting us to the promised land. I am grateful to him and would probably like him more if not for his cult-like following.[/quote]


Hahahahaha . I agree, the only thing that SA has over Lynch at this point is longevity. For a pure running back, and this is my personal opinion... I think Curt Warner is the best to put on a Hawk uniform. He had it all and had it not for the shit-turf NFL stadiums used back then, there wouldn't of been any question.
Warren, nice back with a lot of talent (and problems) which I think unfairly knocks him down a notch.

John L Williams...enough said
Mack Strong...one of the best FB of all time, not just Seattle

Glad you didnt take your life.[/quote]
=====================================================

Thanks. His followers refused to believe someone, in this case Hutch, just might not like their hero. It all got rather creepy and I now log out at nite for fear of being cyber-murdered in my sleep. LOL.

I agree with your sentiment about Curt. I close my eyes and can still see that gawd-awful play. Tragic. When an outsider brings his name up in RB conversations, you know you're talking to someone that knows football. Buy that man a beer.

 

[HawkWow]

Please refresh your memories of a healthy shaun alexander. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2TfY03kG4

DAT SPEED

VERY gifted athlete. Thanks for that. But it really just proved a point. When he had an opening, he was money. When he didn't, he wasn't. I saw like one broken tackle (against Florida) on the entire highlight reel. BUT...to his defense. SA never pretended to be a bruisng back. He never apologized for his style and always made it clear "this is who I am, this is how I run, take it or leave it". It's hard to condemn him (too much) based on that.

 

[glowingeyedseahawk]

Great Thread !!

Stats are great to compare and speculations are a wonderful thing.
* * My choice is based on the Man alone, and all he stands for.
Comments can be made that this quality would not bring us a Championship itself,
....and no disrespect to the Beast and his personal qualities

Shaun Alexander was and is a true class individual. (on or off a football field)
THIS is my basis for favorites among the two.

#37 still represents the Seahawks and the 12th man with pride. :th2thumbs:
~ never forget ~

 

[redhawk253]

We know exactly what another RB could do. Mo Morris had 71 carries for 288 yards (4.1 ave) and 1TD behind that 2005 line. He was about as average as average gets.

i dont know if you're arguing for or against SA being all line. mo morris has a 4.2 ypc career avg over a 10 year career and had about a 4.0 ypc avg with 8 tds in his 3 years with detroit had about 20 more carries a season.. most backups usually have higher ypc avgs simply due to the fact they get a lot of draw plays in 3rd and long situations which spikes their ypc numbers a lot considering the low amount of carries they get in a season and they generally get 5-10 garbage yards on a draw.

basically comparing a backup running back/ 3rd down backs stats to a starting rb doesnt work because its situational. this was the same thing that caused a lot of arguments on here when people were begging for forsett to start because of his high ypc avg.

 

[A World Peace]

Lynch has about 1/10th of the line Alexander had, and alexander was a joke right after the sb season. Lynch with the 05 line would be just unfair

 

[cesame]

This is actually pretty easy for me

I'm taking a young, healthy Alexander. I think too many people remember the 2006/2007 Alexander and are holding it against him.

Alexander's vision is what made him great and one of the most productive RB in NFL history over a 5-6 year span. He was a TD machine.

 

[themunn]

Please refresh your memories of a healthy shaun alexander. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2TfY03kG4

DAT SPEED

VERY gifted athlete. Thanks for that. But it really just proved a point. When he had an opening, he was money. When he didn't, he wasn't. I saw like one broken tackle (against Florida) on the entire highlight reel. BUT...to his defense. SA never pretended to be a bruisng back. He never apologized for his style and always made it clear "this is who I am, this is how I run, take it or leave it". It's hard to condemn him (too much) based on that.

The thing is, Lynch takes on tacklers head on, that was never Alexander's style, he'd try to run around them and most of the time it was successful. It's not as if he was running into crowds and sliding, he simply found space to avoid having to do what Lynch did.
ALexander was faster at getting to the second level, hence when Lynch gets past the LoS he has less space to work with. If you gave Lynch and Alexander the same running lane, Lynch would probably fight through two or three defenders to make the yardage, but when Alexander got past the LoS there was only one LB close enough to make the tackle and he'd fly past them more often than not.

Look at this video of Jones greatest ever block again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd-BSrVsRDs
As great as the block was, Lynch probably wouldn't get the 1st down there - he'd have been touched at the 16 yard line - slowed enough that the next guy coming in could also get his hands on them - Lynch would probably fight for another 2-3 yards and make it to the 10. Alexander didn't have to break tackles because nobody got close enough to him to make them. Even when he reached the 10 yard line he squeezes through what is a tight gap but makes it look easy before diving forward with the ball when he knows he can't make the TD because if he stays upright, he's probably stopped at the 5 yard line as he wasn't the type to drag players along with him.

 

[HawkWow]

Your argument is well noted and it is impossible to disagree, IMO, with those that prefer SA to ML and vice versa. Two very different backs with different skills. It's like comparing Dorsett to Campbell.

To those that consider what ML would do behind that 05 line. It would be a thing of beauty and what most hardcore football fans look for in a running game. Plain and simple, ML finishes runs with ferocity and disregard for life or limb. SA preferred to run out of bounds or hit the turf...but carried the rock a ton and for the most part, kept healthy because of his chosen strategy. For those of us who didn't always like SA's style, we should point at our FO, moreso than SA. With the exception of time he spent battling Watters, SA ran pretty much the same way his entire time with the Hawks.

BTW, I voted for SA in this thread....even though I prefer ML's style (by a significant margin).

 

[chris98251]

Shaun could not take the job away from Watters at first because of his soft style and lack of blocking and pass catching. Why we had to get more backs to platoon with Shaun because he refused to learn how, you have a back with size and the ability but lack of effort to do any of the little things to complete his game.

One of my big complaints about him, we basically telegraphed that we were passing or doing the draw play on third down becasue of Alexander.

 

[kearly]

I am very curious to know if this ranking accounts for all the yards Lynch gets after contact. If it doesn't, then it really doesn't make a statement about the line.

You say yards after contact, I say vision. That said, I do think two things on this topic:

#1: Lynch probably helps his FO line stats more than Alexander did because of his superior consistency.

#2: The difference between the 2012 and 2005 lines is FAR smaller than the perception gap makes it out to be.

 

[MORGULON]

Your argument is well noted and it is impossible to disagree, IMO, with those that prefer SA to ML and vice versa. Two very different backs with different skills. It's like comparing Dorsett to Campbell.

To those that consider what ML would do behind that 05 line. It would be a thing of beauty and what most hardcore football fans look for in a running game. Plain and simple, ML finishes runs with ferocity and disregard for life or limb. SA preferred to run out of bounds or hit the turf...but carried the rock a ton and for the most part, kept healthy because of his chosen strategy. For those of us who didn't always like SA's style, we should point at our FO, moreso than SA. With the exception of time he spent battling Watters, SA ran pretty much the same way his entire time with the Hawks.

BTW, I voted for SA in this thread....even though I prefer ML's style (by a significant margin).

I concur, two different backs.Except I voted for Beef Moe. Hahahaha

 

[HawkWow]

Shaun could not take the job away from Watters at first because of his soft style and lack of blocking and pass catching. Why we had to get more backs to platoon with Shaun because he refused to learn how, you have a back with size and the ability but lack of effort to do any of the little things to complete his game.

One of my big complaints about him, we basically telegraphed that we were passing or doing the draw play on third down becasue of Alexander.

You'll hear no argument from me on this. But I sure liked the fire his drafting lit under the ass of Watters, lol. Watters was a bit of a primadonna himself at times. When SA came along, Watters again ran like a man possessed. I want to see this between Lynch and Turbin as well. I think Turbin is a bit intiminated by the greatness of Lynch. As soon as he gets over this, we should see some fireworks and our running game should benefit immensely.

 

[HawkWow]

Your argument is well noted and it is impossible to disagree, IMO, with those that prefer SA to ML and vice versa. Two very different backs with different skills. It's like comparing Dorsett to Campbell.

To those that consider what ML would do behind that 05 line. It would be a thing of beauty and what most hardcore football fans look for in a running game. Plain and simple, ML finishes runs with ferocity and disregard for life or limb. SA preferred to run out of bounds or hit the turf...but carried the rock a ton and for the most part, kept healthy because of his chosen strategy. For those of us who didn't always like SA's style, we should point at our FO, moreso than SA. With the exception of time he spent battling Watters, SA ran pretty much the same way his entire time with the Hawks.

BTW, I voted for SA in this thread....even though I prefer ML's style (by a significant margin).

I concur, two different backs.Except I voted for Beef Moe. Hahahaha

I just hope our boy can stay healthy. Nothing suggests he spends much time worrying about it, lol. Lynch AND Alexander in the same backfield would have been amazing. Those two behind that 05 line would have taken the refs right the **** out of the game! In fact, they would have taken Hass right the **** out of the game, too.

 

[kearly]

No disrespect intended to anyone, but I have to disagree with the growing myth that Chris Gray was some great lineman. He was pretty much the definition of average for ages, until he became a massive liability late in his career (2006 and on) when Tim Ruskell was too incompetent to acquire a guard that could beat out a mid 30s guy who was average in his prime. I don't blame Gray for those late years, he actually started off some of those seasons as a backup and would up starting after injuries. But I also remember very well how much Seahawks fans bitched about his performances week in and week out, and that was when things were going well during their peak run.

He was better back then than his negative reputation just like he's not as good in retrospect as his sudden post-career sainthood. He was basically the Paul McQuistan of his time (although McQuistan is much stronger and much better as a run blocker, IMO). They are similar in that they were two guys that the FO constantly had targeted for replacement, but he kept playing just barely good enough to keep his job for a surprisingly long time. That's no bash on Gray, playing in the NFL for a decade plus is impressive. But that doesn't mean that he was secretly terrific. He was the definition of average, and at times less than average.

Actually, I think John Moffitt might be a better comparison in terms of style. Both were technician types who contributed with skillful blocking but could at times be manhandled.