Lou Pinella

[Shanegotyou11]

First off I love Lou Pinella. He was the one who brought my favorite team to the playoffs for the 1st time ever. His fiery temper made me love him even more.

As I got older and I enjoy Scott Servais(Him and Lou are my Top Two Favorite Mariner Managers) I notice a lot of disdain for Servais. People who dislike him will dismiss stats to have a reason why they win despite him. When the Ms lose? It is all his fault.

Neither are perfect. One had the better roster and more hall of fame players. One does more with less factually. I enjoy and like both the same. I just don't believe both are treated equally by fans. I feel like the reason is a couple of points I would like to make.

1) Lou brought the Ms to the Playoffs for the 1st time ever.
2) This is the BIGGEST ONE for me. There was zero social media in the sense of reddit, twitter,etc.
3) We older fans look to the past as a time of fondness as well.(including myself. The double. Jr. Big Unit)

I believe Lou would be looked at much different nowdays. I think the negative people would be much larger and they would follow what blog writers, large twitter follpwers say. Lou would be scrutinized. I will pull a few examples.

Should Sweet Lou Piniella be in the Hall of Fame? - Cooperstown Cred

A player or manager in Major League Baseball for 41 years, Lou Piniella owns one of the most ironic nicknames, Sweet Lou. In 18 years as an outfielder, he was famously hard nosed, combative and short-tempered.

www.cooperstowncred.com

Remembering the Lou Piniella Show in Seattle

Sweet Lou wasn't a manager, he was an event.

www.vice.com

"In the star-crossed history of baseball in Seattle, Piniella’s team’s four trips to the playoffs were the only four in the franchise’s history until 2022 but not getting even one pennant from the quality teams he skippered seems like a significant under-achievement."

"Maybe he(Ayala) was a victim of Lou Piniella’s famous mishandling of the bullpen."

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Everyone has their opinions on Managers. I don't think Servais is in the same stratosphere as Lou. But he certainly isn't as bad as I have always thought.
You bring up very good points. Lou....now? Would be very interesting to see how people looked at him.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

So, Lou screwed up the bullpen per these blog writers and fans back in the day. Cubbie fans ripped him for blowing leads,etc.

It just was at a smaller social media time for fans. I think Lou would be looked at like Servais for fans nowdays.

I was rewatching Sportscenter Mariner Playoff Highlights from 95 and 2001 and they ripped on a Edgar Groundout lack of hustle. They said Lou with another questionable bullpen decision. They also said Lou Pinella's great defensive team in 01 crumbled in the playoffs.

And lets be honest, if this was nowdays Lou would not be this Golden Child for us all. People who are negative would have been saying "Lou choked, Lou lost us the playoffs, Lou had 4 hall of famers and zero WS appearances,etc"

I would have been defending Lou like I defend Servais. Lol. Players need to still execute. Do i think Lou had the better teams then Servais? Yes. Its why Servais is 2nd above expected wins since 2018. It is why the article said Lou underachieved here.

I really like them both. I just think with how many fans think they are coaches, players,etc now that Lou would not get the same love.

Thoughts?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I just think he was a MUCH better manager than Servais.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Everyone has their opinions on Managers. I don't think Servais is in the same stratosphere as Lou. But he certainly isn't as bad as I have always thought.
You bring up very good points. Lou....now? Would be very interesting to see how people looked at him.

Fair take. I think Lou had the way better hall of fame players on the roster.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I just think he was a MUCH better manager than Servais.

What Proof? I am not being rude. Lou was hated on for bad bullpen moves. Underachieving in Seattle with hall of fame players.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He won a World Series with the Reds. He was VERY good at turning teams around quickly. Mariners were irrelevant before Lou came here. Lou wasn't afraid to play small ball. Lou wasn't afraid to call out the players instead of acting like their bestie.

 

[Ruminator]

Yeah, but Lou could sure kick dirt on a base! If Servais was ever angry enough to mimic the feat at T-Mobile, I bet the crowd would roar in approval.

 

[Seahawks Guy]

I remember we used to say "oh great..." Whenever we would see Bobby Ayala come out to pitch.

 

[Crizilla]

I just think he was a MUCH better manager than Servais.

Yes. Still time for Servais and his crew to do something special but time is ticking.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

He won a World Series with the Reds. He was VERY good at turning teams around quickly. Mariners were irrelevant before Lou came here. Lou wasn't afraid to play small ball. Lou wasn't afraid to call out the players instead of acting like their bestie.

And yet underachieved in Seattle regardless of your take to analysts who said he should have taken the Ms to at least one WS.

Lou was awesome to me growing up. He would have been picked apart now.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Lou Pinella also said it was a failure that they never won a chip with Buhner, Griffey, Randy, Edgar.

Blew it in 1997 after being picked to win WS by some writers.

Buhner recalled the petulance of Johnson.
“Several times, Lou would go out to relieve Randy, and Randy would say something like, ‘F— you, I’m not giving you the ball. If we’re going to be losing this game, I’m going to lose it. I’m tired of coming out of games and not getting (a win or a loss).’ The bullpen problems were big in Randy’s mind, without a doubt.”


"Whether Nomo would have made a vital difference, the Mariners could not stop two impulsive guys, Piniella and Yamauchi, who are unskilled in the art, from getting involved in personnel decisions."
People online would say Lou needs to be better at the Pen,etc.

It is wild how things are.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I think he's good, just overrated. Hope to be very wrong about him.
Lou asked for another arm when it was massively needed, they refused. How very Mariner. And he has already said several times that they should have went to the WS.

 

[IndyHawk]

I think he's good, just overrated. Hope to be very wrong about him.
Lou asked for another arm when it was massively needed, they refused. How very Mariner. And he has already said several times that they should have went to the WS.

They did get Belcher which was a good get.
Also Lou with the Reds/Seattle was way different than with Cubs..
I clearly could see he was done,cooked and burned out during his
first season with the Cubs but I get why too.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points. It will just take ME a long while before I put Servais in the same category as Lou.
That's part of being a manager. Some people like you, some hate you, some think you're overrated.

 

[bileever]

It's a different era. Lou was old school. Analytics has changed the game. It's hard to compare.

 

[sutz]

It's a different era. Lou was old school. Analytics has changed the game. It's hard to compare.

Not to mention replay.

 

[Threedee]

Lou was the manager of my childhood and of my favorite teams. My main complaint about Servais is that he has always felt like a nonentity, simply carrying out the whims of Dipoto. This is a task that Melvin through McClendon all could have done had they not been working for Bavasi and Zduriencik.

That said, he doesn't seem to have been a hindrance to the team. A Lou Piniella will always be more welcome, though.

 

[Hawkinaz]

Usually baseball managers are either motivators or teachers not sure what Servais is but Pinella was a motivator. Looking at the Mariners the one thing that bothers me is how often the batters strike out, if you are going to make an out have it at least be beneficial

 

[Threedee]

Usually baseball managers are either motivators or teachers not sure what Servais is but Pinella was a motivator. Looking at the Mariners the one thing that bothers me is how often the batters strike out, if you are going to make an out have it at least be beneficial

Well, every time a player grounds into a double play, I yell "next time, just strike out" at them. A strikeout also guarantees at least three pitches will be added to the opponent's counter (we see a lot of first pitch disasters from this team).

So, what I think sucks about strikeouts isn't their situational impact, but, more what it says about the effectiveness of our batters' approach and preparation.