Linebacker Play

[Sgt. Largent]

So not to throw a wet blanket on the great road win, but one thing that's concerned me over the first two games is our LB play.

For a group some were calling the best LB corp in the NFL with Wright, Kendricks and Bobby, they've looked awful average, especially covering all these screens and flat passes. Too much getting washed out of the play and not recognizing what's going on to make all these screens and RB/TE flat passes 2-3 yards, not 10.

Not terrible certainly, but also not the dynamic trio we were expecting to be anchoring the defense.

 

[sutz]

I'm not really concerned. This is the first real action with all 3 of them available.

They'll get better.

 

[Sports Hernia]

So not to throw a wet blanket on the great road win, but one thing that's concerned me over the first two games is our LB play.

For a group some were calling the best LB corp in the NFL with Wright, Kendricks and Bobby, they've looked awful average, especially covering all these screens and flat passes. Too much getting washed out of the play and not recognizing what's going on to make all these screens and RB/TE flat passes 2-3 yards, not 10.

Not terrible certainly, but also not the dynamic trio we were expecting to be anchoring the defense.

I noticed it too.
Seems like they were over pursuing at times, and not staying at home.

 

[Hawkpower]

So not to throw a wet blanket on the great road win, but one thing that's concerned me over the first two games is our LB play.

For a group some were calling the best LB corp in the NFL with Wright, Kendricks and Bobby, they've looked awful average, especially covering all these screens and flat passes. Too much getting washed out of the play and not recognizing what's going on to make all these screens and RB/TE flat passes 2-3 yards, not 10.

Not terrible certainly, but also not the dynamic trio we were expecting to be anchoring the defense.

Have you been able to pinpoint if it's Bobby, KJ, Kendricks or a sampling of all three that are struggling?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not really concerned. This is the first real action with all 3 of them available.

They'll get better.

Yeah I guess, and they are playing in far more base three LB, as opposed to having that DE drop back and help them in coverage like they've had help with in the past......maybe that's also putting more stress on expectations, assignments and margin for error.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So not to throw a wet blanket on the great road win, but one thing that's concerned me over the first two games is our LB play.

For a group some were calling the best LB corp in the NFL with Wright, Kendricks and Bobby, they've looked awful average, especially covering all these screens and flat passes. Too much getting washed out of the play and not recognizing what's going on to make all these screens and RB/TE flat passes 2-3 yards, not 10.

Not terrible certainly, but also not the dynamic trio we were expecting to be anchoring the defense.

Have you been able to pinpoint if it's Bobby, KJ, Kendricks or a sampling of all three that are struggling?

With Bobby and KJ it's been more about late recognition on screens and getting washed out on blocks, when in the past they're were about the best in the league at sniffing screens and flat passes out and using their speed to beat the TE or lineman to the point of attack.

With Kendricks it's more about some key missed tackles and coverage lapses. More over pursuing? Idk.

But as a whole they've been average, especially with the expectations we had that they'd be the best position group on the team.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I dunno, I swear I remember a drive or two in the second half where those guys were sniffing out multiple flat plays. KJ two, Kendricks a big open-field tackle on one.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I dunno, I swear I remember a drive or two in the second half where those guys were sniffing out multiple flat plays. KJ two, Kendricks a big open-field tackle on one.

What about Kendricks PI?

Again, this is probably more my expectations vs the reality that our LB's have been solid, but nowhere near the great I and others thought we'd see thus far.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Kendricks seemed to have a number of bad plays yesterday.

But he usually is solid.

Everyone has a bad game. Hoping it is that.

I did notice that they were able to run on us with Clowney out.

It felt as if we were not able to get much pressure considering the hype on our DL, but guys were getting held hard. Seeing it across the league, wondering if the league is allowing holding this year to spur higher scores...but it hurts when your strength is a good DL. If the other team can just hold and wear out your players, the game becomes a lot harder to win.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I think it's been bad, because we've been in a lot of base defense personnel where we probably should have been in nickel.

We're using our base a LOT more than last year, where the Nickel package actually was our base by percentage used.

Seeing KJ covering JuJu was not a welcome sight. Neither was seeing Wagner trying to keep up with Ross the week before.

I think they're doing well. But are getting caught in obvious mismatches with little to no pass rush to mitigate the vulnerability.

 

[bbsplitter]

Bobby is probably one of the best defensive players that has or will ever play for the Hawks. That said really the only weakness he ever displays is coverage and getting off blocks on occasion, and that typically shows early in the year. I think he will be back to his game wrecking self in a few weeks.

Part of the perceived lack of splash plays might also be because of scheme as well. PC might have Bobby and KJ playing pretty conservatively because of all the new faces on defense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Seeing KJ covering JuJu was not a welcome sight. Neither was seeing Wagner trying to keep up with Ross the week before..

This.

Two games in a row now we've seen our LB's trying to cover WR's across the field as our pass rush struggles to get pressure.

And yes, it's about scheme, but it's also about Pete not having a nickel and dime CB he trusts. I think Ugo was on his way, but he got hurt.

If we can find a solid nickel, then hopefully we won't keep seeing these bad mismatches out in coverage with our LB's.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I dunno, I swear I remember a drive or two in the second half where those guys were sniffing out multiple flat plays. KJ two, Kendricks a big open-field tackle on one.

What about Kendricks PI?

Again, this is probably more my expectations vs the reality that our LB's have been solid, but nowhere near the great I and others thought we'd see thus far.

He had a couple missed tackles for big gains before that, so I noticed he had a bad game. He bit on last week's flea-flicker, too.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I think it's been bad, because we've been in a lot of base defense personnel where we probably should have been in nickel.

We're using our base a LOT more than last year, where the Nickel package actually was our base by percentage used.

Seeing KJ covering JuJu was not a welcome sight. Neither was seeing Wagner trying to keep up with Ross the week before.

I think they're doing well. But are getting caught in obvious mismatches with little to no pass rush to mitigate the vulnerability.

This begs the question of why Seattle is staying in base D so much early this year after playing a lot more nickel last year. Was going to start a thread to see why folks thought that was, but this is the perfect opening to bring it up so here goes. It's certainly tough watching a LB try to cover a WR cuz they really aren't able to which is no surprise.

I have a couple theories as to why they're staying in base nearly entirely so far. I think one reason is they feel they don't have a nickel with the coverage ability of Coleman, at least not yet anyway. We all know he was very good at coverage though not so much at tackling which leads me to point 2 and the biggest reason I think we're seeing 3 LBs on nearly every play. Hawks were last against the run on a YPC basis last year iirc and I think Pete is hellbent on improving vs. the run. His philosophy is to run well, stop the run, win the TO battle and hit big plays as we all know and I believe he's willing to give up some yards between the 20s to shut the run games of the opposition down which has been accomplished thus far. My gut tells me we're going to continue to see a lot of base this year.

 

[Polk738]

I'm pretty sure they are running the 4-3 base more to stop the run since it destroyed the team last year, so far it has worked pretty well, kept the Steelers to 81 yds and the Bengals to 33, I'll take those run defense numbers any day of the week and we know it is Pete's number one priority on defense. The downside is they'll get shredded in pass coverage which we've obviously seen but they ran more nickel yesterday and I thought Jamar Taylor played pretty well so I think they'll keep him as the nickel.

 

[chris98251]

Coleman isn't here so we are in the experimental phase of finding a Nickel and a FS.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

This begs the question of why Seattle is staying in base D so much early this year after playing a lot more nickel last year. Was going to start a thread to see why folks thought that was, but this is the perfect opening to bring it up so here goes. It's certainly tough watching a LB try to cover a WR cuz they really aren't able to which is no surprise.

I have a couple theories as to why they're staying in base nearly entirely so far. I think one reason is they feel they don't have a nickel with the coverage ability of Coleman, at least not yet anyway. We all know he was very good at coverage though not so much at tackling which leads me to point 2 and the biggest reason I think we're seeing 3 LBs on nearly every play. Hawks were last against the run on a YPC basis last year iirc and I think Pete is hellbent on improving vs. the run. His philosophy is to run well, stop the run, win the TO battle and hit big plays as we all know and I believe he's willing to give up some yards between the 20s to shut the run games of the opposition down which has been accomplished thus far. My gut tells me we're going to continue to see a lot of base this year.

Probably this. But also considering that Reed is out (and Poona too), means our interior run defense on the DL is really really raw/poor. We're also seeing Mone and Woods play a lot.

In addition, I don't think Seattle really liked their nickel CB options. Or at least the matchups presented. We don't have a Lane/Coleman prototype nickel on the roster. And we also let Jamar Taylor go week one in a move to both retain rookie talent and allow us to place guys on IR (with the byproduct of not having to guarantee his season salary). Taylor came back after week one and did play quite a bit. Expect him to play a bit more. He's not an ideal nickel but he's still better suited than the others we do have.

So it's not likely to really change for the next few weeks.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

This begs the question of why Seattle is staying in base D so much early this year after playing a lot more nickel last year. Was going to start a thread to see why folks thought that was, but this is the perfect opening to bring it up so here goes. It's certainly tough watching a LB try to cover a WR cuz they really aren't able to which is no surprise.

I have a couple theories as to why they're staying in base nearly entirely so far. I think one reason is they feel they don't have a nickel with the coverage ability of Coleman, at least not yet anyway. We all know he was very good at coverage though not so much at tackling which leads me to point 2 and the biggest reason I think we're seeing 3 LBs on nearly every play. Hawks were last against the run on a YPC basis last year iirc and I think Pete is hellbent on improving vs. the run. His philosophy is to run well, stop the run, win the TO battle and hit big plays as we all know and I believe he's willing to give up some yards between the 20s to shut the run games of the opposition down which has been accomplished thus far. My gut tells me we're going to continue to see a lot of base this year.

Probably this. But also considering that Reed is out (and Poona too), means our interior run defense on the DL is really really raw/poor. We're also seeing Mone and Woods play a lot.

In addition, I don't think Seattle really liked their nickel CB options. Or at least the matchups presented. We don't have a Lane/Coleman prototype nickel on the roster. And we also let Jamar Taylor go week one in a move to both retain rookie talent and allow us to place guys on IR (with the byproduct of not having to guarantee his season salary). Taylor came back after week one and did play quite a bit. Expect him to play a bit more. He's not an ideal nickel but he's still better suited than the others we do have.

So it's not likely to really change for the next few weeks.

Really good point about DT being thin right now. Definitely a factor I would think.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I thin
This begs the question of why Seattle is staying in base D so much early this year after playing a lot more nickel last year. Was going to start a thread to see why folks thought that was, but this is the perfect opening to bring it up so here goes. It's certainly tough watching a LB try to cover a WR cuz they really aren't able to which is no surprise. .

I think it's a two part thing;

1. Pete doesn't trust our nickel and dime CB's. To play our old cover three with the SS down in the box like Kam used to do, you have to trust not only your FS, but your nickel and dime corners in obvious passing downs to do the right thing and be where they're suppose to be.........and right now? I don't even think Pete trusts 2/4th's of his defensive backfield, let along whoever he's running out for nickel.

2. Thumper. Kam was the thumper that put the fear of god into WR's and TE's running routes across the middle. Pete desperately wants another thumper to do that, and right now with Blair hurt and not taking over that SS role with confidence, Pete's leaving Kendricks and KJ in the game in obvious passing plays to act as his thumper.

Which is fine I guess, but it's also let to those mismatches of those two guys following JuJu and Ross across the field as our D-line can't get home. Not a good scheme if your D-line can't get pressure.

 

[Jville]

I'm enjoying the effort to keep a 3 linebacker base defense on the field as much as possible. With Cody Barton as the #4 that can play all three spots, this provides some engaging variation from what we have witnessed in recent years.

Variety driven by changes in team talent is interesting and entertaining. :2thumbs: That's a good thing!

(On how the three linebackers looked) “I’m really excited about it. I’m really excited about the way these guys played this week. I really feel, this is as honest as I can get with you guys, I feel like we’re just getting started. I feel like we’re just getting going on what we can do and how to count on these guys and how to utilize their strengths. There’s individual strengths that we really understand about K.J. [Wright] and Bobby [Wagner]. We’ve been together for so long. Mychal we’re learning, but it’s more about the flow between those guys and how we can play off each other and all of that. I think we’re going to get better. I think we’re going to improve and we’re going to know more and we’re going to be more accurate with our calls and the way we use guys and all that. What I also like too is that Cody Barton’s been playing good enough football that he can back those guys up too. It isn’t like it’s dependent only on when the guys are on the field. I think we’ve got a chance to maybe be able to keep that thing rolling with some flexibility.” [urltargetblank]https://www.seahawksmedia.com/transcripts/carroll-pete-09-16-19/[/urltargetblank]