Let's talk Trust

[keasley45]

I don't know about all that. While the OL performance has been better than years past, you can't apply general OL performance over the course of a season to specific games against good Ds where the protection is horrible.

The average temperature this past November was 65 degrees, but today it snowed. Therefore, the temperature today is 65.

Nope. It's on a game-by-game basis.

The Vikings pressured Darnold on just under 4 out of every 10 drop backs and sacked him 4 times, which is a very high-pressure, high-sack day for a single game.

And it only takes one weakness to exploit the entire line. Imagine a big stone wall with a giant hole in it. This is our line. The line is only as strong as its weakness link. Especially when the pressure is instant - the play is blown up immediately like we saw multiple times in that first half.

Regarding batted / tipped passes, per MM this is a function of protections and playcalling. Kubiak calls a quick slant or quick out. It's a timing play. It's not 2-3 read type of play. The pass is usually completed if the defender isn't able to push the OL back and put their hands up at the line of scrimmage.

View attachment 76216

Hox,
Part of the reason he is getting sacked is because he is standing in the pocket, hitching 2 and three times. He doesn't have a good feel for the pocket.

The Vikes D told us what they were going to do. Yet to watch Sam and the way he drops back sometimes, you are would think he's is in a 11 on 7 drill.

If we know they are going to come, you have to drop back and make your reads with a bit more urgency, and when the pocket does begin to close, sometimes you need to run.

Sam isn't doing that and that is contributing to dead drives and plays as much as anything else.

 

[chris98251]

Need this

• Purpose: To help a young Kurt Warner overcome his fear of standing in the pocket and getting hit by the defense.
• Execution: Warner would drop back to pass, and a defensive line, often with arm pads, would rush him. He was forced to either throw the ball quickly or get hit, with the drill repeating until he could stand in the pocket and make plays.
• Outcome: The repetitive practice helped him become more comfortable with pressure and led to his teammates nicknaming the drill "Kill Kurt". Warner eventually learned to stand strong in the pocket and use his fear to become a better player.

 

[keasley45]

Need this

• Purpose: To help a young Kurt Warner overcome his fear of standing in the pocket and getting hit by the defense.
• Execution: Warner would drop back to pass, and a defensive line, often with arm pads, would rush him. He was forced to either throw the ball quickly or get hit, with the drill repeating until he could stand in the pocket and make plays.
• Outcome: The repetitive practice helped him become more comfortable with pressure and led to his teammates nicknaming the drill "Kill Kurt". Warner eventually learned to stand strong in the pocket and use his fear to become a better player.

That's probably part of it.

But Sam is often standing tall, seemingly oblivious to what's happening around him or in front of him. I'd almost design a drill where he had to vacate his drop as soon as he got there and have mock rushers force him to move around in the pocket (or leave the pocket) to hit the pass.

Geno had some of the same issues where he would stubbornly just stand there unflinchingly. Worked great when he made the improbable play. Not so much when he would get sacked.

 

[CostaRicaHawk]

I trust coach Mike and trust that we can win the division and a 1st round bye

 

[Chukarhawk]

Not just bad but "Terrible".

Zabel has been 'Terrible".

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nominee for dumbest post of the year. Zabel has been terrible?

 

[Ostatehawk]

The interior of the offensive line has been terrible, and that includes Zabel and Olu (and Sundel). The question is: do we trust Kubiak, Benton and Macdonald to fix it in time?

Let’s be clear this was me responding to the above post.
Zabel has been money pretty much all season long.

I don’t think olu and sundel have been terrible either - struggled at times but terrible is an overstatement.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Let’s be clear this was me responding to the above post.
Zabel has been money pretty much all season long.

I don’t think olu and sundel have been terrible either - struggled at times but terrible is an overstatement.

yeah, still not following you but glad to see you haven't lost your mind. He's gonna do rookie stuff at times but he will steadily improve to all pro status.

 

[Ozzy]

Answer me this. When has Sam Darnold NOT been the guy to wilt when things get hot or challenging?

I could understand the defense of the guy if he actually showed an ability to 'turn on' and not look like a counterfeit version of himself when things are going really well. But there are few, if any examples of him doing that.

Maybe he is different now and it's just been a perfect storm or his teammates failing that are making him look like he didat his worst before he got here.

There are things you can do against pressure, like scramble or get the ball out faster.

The issue is that it's not even him getting sacked that's contributing to the bad plays. See the Rams game. There are just terrible decisions being made that shouldn't be when things simply get hot.

We will see what happens this weekend. I sincerely hope the ATL D doesn't show up, but if they do, Sam could potentially look just as bad against them as he did against the Rams and Vikes. They Blitz at a high rate and have a solid front 7.

At some point, Sam has to be the reason we win games. He can't be the guy we are constantly protecting from himself when things get hard. Every game will be hard pretty soon and every defense we see will do what the Vikes and Rams have tried. He has shown flashes of being able to create smartly on his own.

The problem though with someone with issues with self doubt is that at some point when they begin to lose grip of a second chance and show weakness and a proposensity to be the person they are trying to move on from, the instances of failure stack up, it can become a self defeating thing.

Sam 'being Sam' is now the narrative that everyone in the media is trumpeting. The fact that the Vikes D Coordinator flat came out and basically said to Sam 'we are coming' should say a lot about what the consensus feeling is about who he is as a QB. Every good D will come at him now until he shows he can beat it.

We can't expect the O Line to just keep him safe against an onslaught every single play.

Sam has to make a play. Sam has to win us a game when everyone knows it's in his hands to do so.

Multiple games this year with the recent Rams game as the latest example where he was lights out in the 4th quarter and OT. He outplayed Stafford when it mattered and it wasn't close. He also has multiple game winning drives as Macdonald pointed out. I don't think you're all wrong and he needs to prove it in the playoffs but I do think he's showed up more than people give him credit for

 

[MontanaHawk05]

No doubt about it, Sam has never wilted in the face of pressure. His performance is another question, but he stays in it until the end, and now it's reaping wins.

The Hawks have been through a gauntlet in the back half of the season. The Rams twice (and they outperformed the Rams the first time considerably), Minny's defense, Indy's defense, now the Panthers. A while back, we had the Texans, one of the best defenses this year. These are mid-to-respectable-to-playoff teams. The Hawks have already proven they belong in January.

There's a path to the Super Bowl here, if only because the defense is lights out and because there aren't any juggernauts like Brady and Mahomes in the league anymore.

And the way you know the rest of the league knows it, is because of all the cheap shots towards JSN. The Colts subjected him to flat-out haymakers and Jaycee Horn tried to rip his nose off. The refs had better start calling that crap.

 

[keasley45]

The big question mark over this team being able to win it this year isnt the defense. It's not special teams. It's not the O line or the OC.

Unlike years passed, the question mark hangs over the QB.

This isn't a question of whether Sam CAN do good things. Since this thread was started, he has shown he can win under pressure. The question is whether his play will put the team in a hole it can't get out of.

 

[glenwo2]

The big question mark over this team being able to win it this year isnt the defense. It's not special teams. It's not the O line or the OC.

Unlike years passed, the question mark hangs over the QB.

This isn't a question of whether Sam CAN do good things. Since this thread was started, he has shown he can win under pressure. The question is whether his play will put the team in a hole it can't get out of.

Well all he needs to do is not throw 4 interceptions and we have a chance to win.

 

[glenwo2]

To me, the Defense will be the reason we win this Saturday and will go deep into the playoffs (and to the Superbowl).

Just like the plan was when they signed Darnold.

We keep forgetting this.

Darnold needs to not f*ck it up (so to speak) while we lean into our running game and Defense.

Before the last two weeks, our running game was inconsistent so Sam had to pick it up for most of the season (and he's done a great job) but now that the Rushing attack seems to be rounding back into form, Sam won't have to do so much heavy-lifting this time.

 

[NoGain]

This isn't a question of whether Sam CAN do good things. Since this thread was started, he has shown he can win under pressure. The question is whether his play will put the team in a hole it can't get out of.

I think that's a fair take. Even early in that Carolina game, I was like JFC Sam, we're a better team than them. You can't be that sloppy with the ball.

 

[glenwo2]

I think that's a fair take. Even early in that Carolina game, I was like JFC Sam, we're a better team than them. You can't be that sloppy with the ball.

My only thought when the Interception happened was "well at least he didn't throw a pick when we are at our side of the field this time so....baby steps?"