John Clayton says Browner could win his appeal

[hawkcrazzed]

After reading the hawkblogger article. While I take it at face value. But its the only real thing I have read about the whole situation. This could be really awesome. And viva la superb owl.

 

[The Outfield]

So what happens when Browner wins his appeal and has a game-clinching interception in the playoffs?

Defensive pass interference.

 

[Sac]

So what happens when Browner wins his appeal and has a game-clinching interception in the playoffs?

Defensive pass interference.

Okay that's pretty funny.

 

[HawkFan72]

So what happens when Browner wins his appeal and has a game-clinching interception in the playoffs?

Defensive pass interference.

Sounds accurate.

 

[Atradees]

Somebody get him some Niacin and three gallons of water for Pete's Sake!

 

[irocdave]

Man the Hawks need Browner Monday night....but not going to happen. Would be friggin hilarious if Browner beets this suspension. Goddell would be so pissed as would whiner fans...

 

[gargantual]

I'd like some answers as to why all this confidential information is being leaked in the first place. I think some serious lawsuits are in order here. This is a pattern going back at LEAST to the Browner-Sherman suspensions last year.

Am I just missing it or am I not seeing this kind of (what I think should be ILLEGAL) leaks happening to the "storied" franchises like it is to the Seahawks. Sherman touched on this slightly before when talking about how the premature rush to judgement kept him out of the Pro-Bowl last year. I'm getting more than a little sick of this crap.

 

[RezHawk]

Nice breakdown by Hawkblogger. The one thing I don't understand is why the Seahawks have to place BB on IR by Saturday, is there some sort of deadline or is it just to save a roster spot? If there is a deadline the NFL could just stall the appeal until next week and force him to be IR'ed. This whole thing sounds a little shady on the NFL's end of it to me. Makes me wonder if the front office isn't gunning for the LOB since Sherm's PED reversle.

 

[irocdave]

Would love to see Browner abusing Graham Monday night...Isn't going to happen but if Browner is available in the playoffs it would no doubt help. Browner is a guy that has made a direct impact. That down against Carolina last year where Browner ripped the ball out of the running backs hands comes to mind. Hawks would not have won that game without Browner manning up and demonstrating he wont lose to this crap team. I like Browner, didn't think we would resign him but hoped his Cinderella career would come full circle and reward him for staying with it.

Listening to The Scorpions greatest hits as I am typing. Sorry for being distracted..

 

[RolandDeschain]

Listening to The Scorpions greatest hits as I am typing. Sorry for being distracted..

Now that's a hell of a CD.

 

[TwistedHusky]

This whole thing has been really disappointing.

Browner is one of my favorite Seahawks, certainly in my top 15 of all Seahawks I have ever followed. Right below Eugene Robinson.

His contributions constantly get disregarded, but he has absolutely made the difference between a win and loss in several games. The Carolina game was already pointed to, we already remember the Giants game where he went off, and I think I watched YouTube replays 172 times in one summer showing that Patriots game where he just leveled Welker.

I cannot be unbiased about the guy.

But that said, he clearly worked really hard and has been a huge contributor to our success. It really sucks that either a moment of weakness, a careless mistake or just a terribly stupid choice can wipe away all that he has brought to the table for so long. If he wins his appeal I still hope we can find a way to keep him, if we can get some way of assuring he would fly straight.

I also question the timing on this one, we just ripped through a stretch of games where we were Goliath and we were at no risk from any Davids. 4 games in that stretch without a starting corner would have been easier to shrug off. This one where we had a CB that matched up perfectly against Graham, only to lose him, that is brutal. Of course he was injured anyway, but it just smells funny.

I still have my fingers crossed we see Browner as a Seahawk, still hoping he either learned his lesson or it was a terrible mistake. Then again, I am realistic enough to know it might just be what it seems and we cannot - but I don't understand the absolute disdain and rush to throw him onto the trashheap by part of our fan base looking to get rid of him for any reason (considering all he has contributed over the past few years and the absolute bargain his contract has been). There are a lot of so-called fans that are ready to rush him out the door without even stopping to understand the circumstances or show any loyalty at all.

If the guy left, I would probably end up following his career, rooting for him except when he played the Seahawks. But I really have my fingers crossed we can somehow someway find a way to keep him if all this turns out to be a minor issue blown up by the league.

 

[Greenhell]

BOLD PREDICTION:

BROWNER WINS HIS APPEAL AND PLAYS MONDAY NIGHT, WITH A MIRACULOUSLY HEALED GROIN.

THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC

FYI, you just ruined Thanksgiving dinner for me with that disgusting abomination of an avatar. ukeface:

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Oh? That would make this one his first offense?

According to Clayton, the 4 game suspension doesn't happen until your third offense (which isn't my understanding). Clayton claims Thurmond was fined money with no loss of games on his second offense and got 4 games suspension on his third. Clayton is claiming this is Browner's 2nd offense and thus no suspension. But he also says he doubts the league would go by this ruling and **may** treat it like his 3rd and only suspend him 4-6 games.

We will see. I don't think Browner will get the league to reverse itself on this suspension. I think they will say it was his obligation to complete his stage 1 requirements as stated in the CBA whether he was out the league or not and missed tests put him into lifelong monitoring stage 3.

If it goes down like Doc thinks it will as he described above (which I agree with btw, I don't see the league reversing either), does anyone know if BB can take it to arbitration via based obviously on a different interpretation of the 'stages' and being out of the NFL and so forth? If so, how long does that process take?

 

[ivotuk]

This whole thing has been really disappointing.

Browner is one of my favorite Seahawks, certainly in my top 15 of all Seahawks I have ever followed. Right below Eugene Robinson.

His contributions constantly get disregarded, but he has absolutely made the difference between a win and loss in several games. The Carolina game was already pointed to, we already remember the Giants game where he went off, and I think I watched YouTube replays 172 times in one summer showing that Patriots game where he just leveled Welker.

I cannot be unbiased about the guy.

But that said, he clearly worked really hard and has been a huge contributor to our success. It really sucks that either a moment of weakness, a careless mistake or just a terribly stupid choice can wipe away all that he has brought to the table for so long. If he wins his appeal I still hope we can find a way to keep him, if we can get some way of assuring he would fly straight.

I also question the timing on this one, we just ripped through a stretch of games where we were Goliath and we were at no risk from any Davids. 4 games in that stretch without a starting corner would have been easier to shrug off. This one where we had a CB that matched up perfectly against Graham, only to lose him, that is brutal. Of course he was injured anyway, but it just smells funny.

I still have my fingers crossed we see Browner as a Seahawk, still hoping he either learned his lesson or it was a terrible mistake. Then again, I am realistic enough to know it might just be what it seems and we cannot - but I don't understand the absolute disdain and rush to throw him onto the trashheap by part of our fan base looking to get rid of him for any reason (considering all he has contributed over the past few years and the absolute bargain his contract has been). There are a lot of so-called fans that are ready to rush him out the door without even stopping to understand the circumstances or show any loyalty at all.

If the guy left, I would probably end up following his career, rooting for him except when he played the Seahawks. But I really have my fingers crossed we can somehow someway find a way to keep him if all this turns out to be a minor issue blown up by the league.

Nice post, except for the bolded part. I have yet to see a fan "looking to get rid of him for any reason." Most fans I know are like myself and love BB's story, how he's made it back to the NFL after suffering injury and setbacks. And we love what Browner has done for this organization, like Beast Mode, Brandon has added a level of toughness to the team.

But he knows the rules and he knew what the repercussions would be. It cost this team last year when he got suspended and Sherman may have won his appeal but there was a lot of distraction coming up to the most important part of the season.

But hey, they got all of that out of the way and everything was cool, right? I mean after Pete Carroll brought his team in and reminded them of how they are members of a family and what they do hurts their family so we shouldn't see anymore of this right? Wrong, Bruce Irvin gets busted after being in the league for less than a year.

After coming from a troubled background and telling everyone that he was going to prove the doubters wrong, he gets busted. To his credit, Bruce got up in front of his team mates and took responsibility, apologizing for hurting the team. So Michael Robinson and the team hold a players only meeting and after Bruce's mea culpa, everything should be cool right? EVERY player now knows that the team has been hurt by selfishness and this needs to stop.

Well, it didn't stop. It happened again, to the same player that was suspended last year for PEDs. Brandon knew the rules and knew how it would hurt the team if he got caught, but he did it anyway. On Wyman Mike and Moore one of the guys tried to say "it's not a selfish act, it's just a lapse of judgment." To which I say, BS.

If it were to happen on a team that hadn't recently had half a dozen suspensions for players putting banned substances in their bodies, and a team that hadn't had multiple player apologies to the team and a team that had not held a players only meeting to address the subject, then I could see it being a lapse of judgment. But in this case the subject matter couldn't have been more obvious, and the choice to take a chance on getting popped by the NFL was a selfish one.

So nothing Pete Carroll or the rest of the team does seems to be working and now we have this HUGE distraction at a time when we least need it.

There are a lot of long suffering fans, former players and current players that have waited a long time for the Seahawks to get to this point, and if we lose to the Saints, it's going to be hard to live with. Especially if the loss can be linked in any way whatsoever to being without Walter Thurmond' services. And you know BB, even though he's out with an injury, fairly or unfairly will be lumped in there.

I love Brandon Browner, but I'm desperate for a Lombardi trophy for my favorite team. But if this once in a lifetime season comes crashing down, it's going to be hard for me to forgive him for his transgressions. His, and Thurmond's blatant disregard for the situation, the rules, and their team is a huge negative in my book and a lot of how this is eventually viewed will come down to whether or not we win the Superbowl.

And add to all this that Pete Carroll is now taking a lot of heat that he shouldn't have to deal with, not with HFA and the playoffs coming up. He doesn't need the added distraction. And I think he was hurt by the actions of Browner and Thurmond. Pete actually cares for his players, it's kind of like they are his children, and that's not the way to repay a man that gives back so much to his team and his community.

So this all leaves me wondering, when will the next shoe drop? What can Pete possibly do now that he hasn't already done to convince his players to NOT hurt the team or their team mates anymore? Should he take the drastic measure of cutting someone like Browner? A lot of teams would have already done that, especially after last year's debacle. But not Pete, instead he rewarded Browner with a pay increase this fall. So how did Brandon repay him?

Personally, I think cutting Browner is a viable option as it would certainly get the attention of the rest of the team. It would send a message, "It doesn't matter how valuable you may appear to a team, or what you have contributed in the past, if you repeatedly hurt the team, you are out."

Now we all know there are extenuating circumstances here, and the whole story isn't out just yet, so it's impossible to know if cutting Brandon is a reasonable action to take. But considering the history of violations, and the fact that no matter what the team does, the violations keep recurring, it should be an option.

And please, don't compare this case to Bowe, Rapistburger and Aldon Smith! Those cases are either ongoing (innocent until proven guilty) or there wasn't a conviction. The NFL has no legal standing to impose penalties for instances where there hasn't been a conviction. Fortunately Goodell (who everyone seems to blame/hate) was able to suspend Pig Pen under the CBA rules. But those cases are in no way comparable to this one.

What I would really like to see happen though, is for the NFLPA to go to bat for Brandon on this issue and for the NFL to penalize Brandon based only on actual failed tests, and not on some misguided rules that probably have zero support for the player from either the NFLPA or the NFL.

What I mean by support is that either institution should have notified Browner about the requirements (the Broncos should have done so if they didn't) and made sure that they had a means of contacting him. The NFLPA, NFL and the Broncos could have easily done something like given him a call in number (like they do for juries) that he could check once a week to find out if he were required to pee in a cup. Then they could also accommodate a player by flying the tester in to wherever the player is.

The NFLPA, NFL and the Broncos could also have negotiated follow up with the CFL for if/when a player in the NFL program were to join a CFL team. I'm sure the CFL has their own drug policies and while Brandon was playing for them they could have implemented it in lieu of the NFL policy.

Ultimately, it is up to the player to make sure they follow all of the rules in the CBA, but they should get a lot more support from the entities (NFLPA, NFL and teams) that make money off of their blood, sweat and tears. Said entities have the resources to do this for the players, but I don't think any of them actually care. IMHO, the NFLPA and NFL are more concerned about their bottom line than they are about Brandon Browner. I certainly hope he has gotten a lot more support from his agent than he has gotten from either of those outfits.

Edit: Just read the Hawkblogger article and he says that a team can not cut an injured player. I remember seeing players getting an "injury settlement" and while it may not be "cutting' a player by CBA definition, it is terminating a player's time with a team. I'm sure there is some way that they can dismiss a player who has violated NFL rules, injured or not.

 

[ivotuk]

Some interesting points from Hawkblogger:

**NEW**

- Browner may have voluntarily joined the substance program out of school to help his draft stock
I had previously written that Browner had to have violated the substance abuse policy during his time with the Broncos in order to have been in the program to begin with. I have since learned it is also possible that he volunteered to enter the program out of school because he had some issues during college that may have scared NFL teams off. Players can voluntarily join the program for reasons such as this. So now, it is possible this would be Browner's first failed test.

IN SUMMARY

Browner has not been suspended. He is waiting for the outcome of his appeal, with the hope that either his suspension is completely lifted or it is a four-game duration that could be served while he is injured the next four games. His defense is that he is being unfairly disciplined as a STAGE 3 offender due to missed NFL tests while he was in the CFL.

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2013/11/where-things-stand-with-brandon-browner.html#disqus_thread

 

[ivotuk]

Found this info on injury designations on the NationalFootballPost:


Permanent IR: Players with a major injury will be put on a team’s Injured Reserve (IR). These players may not return to the active roster for the rest of the season and the club retains their rights. These players are paid their full salaries or a split amount ( usually journeymen and later round picks) as negotiated in their contract.


Short term IR/Designated for Return: A new rule modified in 2012 allows one player per team to be reactivated from the IR list. A player with a major injury placed on the IR list must be immediately “designated for return”. The designated player is eligible to return to the active list if he has been on the IR for at least 8 weeks from the date he is placed on IR.


Waived/Injured: When a team waives an injured player any other team may claim him. If a player clears waivers the player is immediately reverted to IR or the team will negotiate an injury settlement to allow the player to pursue other opportunities with another club.


Injury settlement: Instead of putting the waived/injured player on the IR for the rest of the season a team will negotiate an injury settlement if the player has a chance of returning from the injury in that season. Once a settlement is reached that player is released and free to pursue another team. The amount of the settlement is based upon the number of weeks the player is “estimated” to be unable to play. This comes in the form of a team doctor’s opinion and a second opinion doctor of the player. For example if a player is estimated by the team doctor to be out 5 weeks but the second opinion doctor believes it could take up to 8 weeks, the agent will seek to have the player paid for as close to the 8 weeks as possible, 8/17th’s of his total year’s salary.

 

[NYCoug]

I still have my fingers crossed we see Browner as a Seahawk, still hoping he either learned his lesson or it was a terrible mistake. Then again, I am realistic enough to know it might just be what it seems and we cannot - but I don't understand the absolute disdain and rush to throw him onto the trashheap by part of our fan base looking to get rid of him for any reason (considering all he has contributed over the past few years and the absolute bargain his contract has been). There are a lot of so-called fans that are ready to rush him out the door without even stopping to understand the circumstances or show any loyalty at all.

Well said my brother. I decided to stay out of all the WTIII and Browner threads because I couldn't believe the insanity going on in them. Richard Sherman says it best pre-game when he shouts "Who got my back?!" and the rest of the team answers "We got yo' back!" What about "We all we got, we all we need!" Everyone seems to have forgotten about all of that stuff and how real it is with this team.

Human beings make mistakes, all the time, lots of them, sometimes even worse than smoking some pot and getting suspended for a few football games. The people saying "he let the 12th Man down!" Sorry, but get over yourselves. If anything, they let their teammates down, their coaches, and most importantly their families. Missing game checks doesn't hurt any of the 12th Man, it hurts these guys' kids, wives, etc. Believe me, I'm sure they feel bad enough.

I sincerely hope that Browner wins this appeal because everything about the case is shady as hell. Sure, BB made a mistake and at a poor time, same with WTIII. However, I just wish that people would let things shake out and play themselves out for us before everyone starts running these guys out of town. The Seahawks under Pete Carroll have done a fantastic job of handling adversity, a beautiful job at it really. Players like Marshawn have had run-in's with the law and such while they've been here, not the first time in their lives/careers, yet they've come back afterwards and grown as individuals and tried to continue to mature. Much like all of us do when we make mistakes in real life, which we do all the time.

Who knows? Maybe this opportunity being presented to Byron Maxwell, Jeremy Lane, and DeShawn Shead is the opportunity where one of them steps up and turns themselves into the next Brandon Browner? The next unassuming Seahawks superstar. Maybe it's because I come from a family background of heartache due to drug and alcohol addiction, but I've definitely got these guys' back through this situation. Yeah, I'm biased like Twisted in that BB is one of my favorite Seahawks of all-time. I love his style of play and I like his attitude on the field just as much.

This team is special, and I just see that Super Bowl vibe continuing to shine through, even in seemingly dismal situations like these. We all wondered and mostly deemed it impossible that the entire LoB would be back next season and beyond. Something tells me that with all this mess with the NFL, Browner not only beats the suspension and takes part in the Super Bowl celebrations at MetLife, but he re-signs with Seattle at an amazingly discounted rate next season. The team not only giving him the raise prior to this season, but also showing humanity and faith in him through these tough times, will let him know truly that Seattle is the only place in the NFL for him.

I know I'm far from perfect, so I'm not trying to judge any of these guys. Even Perrish Cox, as much of a scumbag as he appears to be, I was ready to see him try and make something of his life. It didn't work out for him, but I'm better than none of these guys and nobody in general. Therefore, I'll always be one to cheer for the perseverance of the human spirit. Take a look around this team, it's a ton of guys that have done wrong in their lives and generally were disregarded by mostly everyone but Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Yet, look at the amazing feeling and aura those same guys have helped create in the city of Seattle this year. These trials and tribulations, and sticking with our guys THROUGH THE THICK AND THIN, will make the celebrations at MetLife this upcoming February that much sweeter! I promise!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Except SacHawk, your avatar ruined Thanksgiving! Now, when I sit down to eat that majestic turkey that my 88 year old grandmother slaved over for days now, I won't be able to enjoy it. Instead, I'll just think of SacHawk's avatar and that'll probably lead me to sneak off and check .Net a few times. Man am I thankful for this place and all of you! Have a good one y'all! GO Hawks!

 

[CornerHawk]

Keep in mind these suspensions are not supposed to be made public till after the appeal process is final. If not for a leak, we may never have heard this even happened.

 

[HawkFan72]

Found this info on injury designations on the NationalFootballPost:


Injury settlement: Instead of putting the waived/injured player on the IR for the rest of the season a team will negotiate an injury settlement if the player has a chance of returning from the injury in that season. Once a settlement is reached that player is released and free to pursue another team. The amount of the settlement is based upon the number of weeks the player is “estimated” to be unable to play. This comes in the form of a team doctor’s opinion and a second opinion doctor of the player. For example if a player is estimated by the team doctor to be out 5 weeks but the second opinion doctor believes it could take up to 8 weeks, the agent will seek to have the player paid for as close to the 8 weeks as possible, 8/17th’s of his total year’s salary.

It is unlikely the Seahawks would do this (especially since they have said they want to keep Browner around the team while he is out, but could we settle with Browner, release him with a wink and a handshake, and then resign him for the Playoffs when he is healthy?

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Listening to The Scorpions greatest hits as I am typing. Sorry for being distracted..

Now that's a hell of a CD.

Saw them in concert back in 1991. great times with Mr Big and Great White I drove. I was a seahawk fan at that time too...(just to make it about seahawks. LOL)

:thirishdrinkers: