Is Robinson next?

60niners

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HawkFan72":2hk36h2y said:
60niners":2hk36h2y said:
hawker84":2hk36h2y said:
MRob is a must at fullback this season IMO, not just his blocking and recieving out of the backfield, but his leadership on and off the field is irreplacable at this point. I can't see him going anywhere this season.
I know how you feel. We said the same thing. He was easily one of the fan's favorites, and we were pretty shocked to see Harbaugh let him walk.

I don't think there will be a drop off like you guys might expect though. The other players are still going to play, they still want to win. It's just something you have to move on from.

I bet you WERE surprised Harbaugh let him walk.

Especially since Harbaugh didn't become the coach of the 49ers until the year after Robinson was cut. ;)
Wow, good call. I don't know why but in my mind I keep seeing the whole situation of Robinson and Takeo Spikes being let go at the same time.

I've been moded.
 

Crash123go

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I think a true fullback makes or breaks a successful running scheme, Robinson is just as important as marshawn. Remember when the texans dumped vontae leach all of sudden the run game wasnt the same monster it had been for years. Robinson isn't flashy but it could be a mistake to let him go
 

LudwigsDrummer

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kearly":2ydx3gk0 said:
It's upsetting to hear the RB coach say that Christine Michael needs to be a special teams contributor to be on the active portion (45 players) of the 53 man roster. That would seem to imply that Turbin is holding the #2 job, which to me seems like a wasted opportunity. Michael could be Ben Tate to Lynch's Arian Foster. Turbin is a good 3rd down back, but I see real star power in Michael and I'd like to see him get as many touches this year as possible.

This is merely a motivational tool. CM won't be anointed jack.
 

TwilightError

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kearly":2va30t5z said:
Turbin is a good 3rd down back, but I see real star power in Michael and I'd like to see him get as many touches this year as possible.

I like Turbin as a smart and versatile player but I dont see him as a good 3rd down back. He goes down on first touch.. Good third down backs bulldoze their way through thick and thin for short yardage. They require an army to bring them down. Ware has more potential on this part of the game.
 

themunn

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TwilightError":12mvqw5o said:
kearly":12mvqw5o said:
Turbin is a good 3rd down back, but I see real star power in Michael and I'd like to see him get as many touches this year as possible.

I like Turbin as a smart and versatile player but I dont see him as a good 3rd down back. He goes down on first touch.. Good third down backs bulldoze their way through thick and thin for short yardage. They require an army to bring them down. Ware has more potential on this part of the game.

That's what you want from a first and second down back.

Surely a third down back is a guy you bring in when you're in a passing formation in third and long, so he needs to be able to block, catch passes and have quickness for those times you want to catch the defense off guard with a run.
All of those describe Turbo to a tee
 

TwilightError

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OK. Perhaps I'm using the term wrong. I always thought Mike Tolbert to be the perfect 3rd down back. In short yard situations, he will smash the ball in those needed 1-2 yards even though he is not much of a runner. But there are ofcourse short and long third downs.. Would Goal Line Back describe better the player type I was looking for?
 

themunn

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TwilightError":3t3u645y said:
OK. Perhaps I'm using the term wrong. I always thought Mike Tolbert to be the perfect 3rd down back. In short yard situations, he will smash the ball in those needed 1-2 yards even though he is not much of a runner. But there are ofcourse short and long third downs.. Would Goal Line Back describe better the player type I was looking for?

Yeah definitely, but we have Marshawn for that (and to an extent Robinson, who didn't fail to convert a short yardage situation until the Atlanta game - where the entire running game was useless).
 

TwilightError

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themunn":2izahcp2 said:
Yeah definitely, but we have Marshawn for that (and to an extent Robinson, who didn't fail to convert a short yardage situation until the Atlanta game - where the entire running game was useless).

Another reason to keep Robinson.

And to the original topic, Nemhauser says: "if a player needs a leader to stay in line, he will not be a Seahawk for long." To me this seems like someone has lost his perspective. We all think the Seahawks are great but they are not superhuman. Everything they touch does not turn into gold. Good leaders are valuable in pretty much any area of life. Certainly in the competitive areas and that is not just to keep others in line, although that too can be important for younger talented players.
 

A London Hawk

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The man himself addresses that in the article that's been recently linked on Seahawks philosophy..

And Carroll has empowered his team leaders to reach out to players who might not connect with a 62-year-old white surfer dude. "Coach Carroll listens to his players," says veteran running back Michael Robinson. "But you need the right mix of older guys who get it. Pete can't be in the locker room all the time, and the head man won't resonate with everybody."
 

AgentDib

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I don't like when bloggers back their assertions with trite comments rather than actual analysis. We all know that MRob is more expensive than Coleman, and most of us agree that MRob is currently better given his proven production, leadership qualities and experience. Whether he is $2 million better or not is an interesting topic that could benefit from analysis.

To that end, most of Nemhauser's write-up is entirely irrelevant. He mentions how popular MRob is, how some people ignore the financial side of the NFL, how Carroll is "ruthless", how MRob's salary compares to other fullbacks or other positions!!?, how leadership doesn't matter, etc. It doesn't matter whether he is right about that stuff or not, because it is all fluff.

The lone piece of hard information provided is the 32% snaps figure, which by itself is clearly not persuasive either way on the issue. Obviously those snaps are heavily dominated by running plays, and what matters is the difference in outcomes we would expect on those plays with Coleman. That makes this "decision" as much about Coleman as it is about MRob and if you want to argue that MRob is expendable then you should really attempt to demonstrate why you think Coleman can handle the job with minimal drop-off, rather than simply writing a bunch of stuff about why leadership is overrated.
 

C-Dub

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lukerguy":2t06n8rj said:
As a former QB, Robinson is another set of eyes in the backfield to see what's going on. I would feel must less confident in Bates or Coleman in plays, blocking, and obviously there leaves a void in leadership. I could see next year moving Coleman to starting FB, but for now, I think we're a year premature.
Perfect. You hit the nail on the head. Just listen to MRob mic'd up and you can see.

- MRob is a 2nd QB on the field; he has a great understanding of the game
- Leadership and respect of the team
- Excellent motivator
- Superb blocking
- Real Rob Report

I don't know how you can replace that just to save a couple mil especially considering he's being replaced with an unproven player (Ware, Coleman, Bates). I am intrigued with Ware and Coleman's special teams play though. There's a few other people I'd rather cut to save money.
 

Scottemojo

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Hawkblogger appears to be throwing poo at the teflon wall again.
 

Tical21

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Do we need the money? Seems like the wrong year to be tinkering with a pro-bowler.
 

SeaTown81

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First off, let me say that I highly dislike Hawkblogger. A LOT. I don't read his stuff at all. Dude is full of himself beyond belief. Still won't let the Flynn thing go. And now it sounds as if he has a new axe to grind in the name of inflating his ego and know-it-all nature. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Dude is nothing special. Only reason he gets the attention he does is his relationship with Softy. And if you ever get a chance to meet the guy, don't. That is unless you want to be condescended upon by the biggest prima donna "fan" I've ever met. I'm not big on stuck up ego maniacs to begin with. But when it's clear that they'd rather be right than admit they're wrong when it's good for the Hawks, I got zero time.

(EXHALE)

All that said, a blogger/twitterer that I do in fact respect, Davis Hsu, has been on the exact same train for most of the preseason. He is huge on rolling over $ for next year. His ideal target is rolling over $6 million. Has pointed out guys like MRob, McQuistan, Farwell, and Maragos as all possible targets. Hsu has been on a mission trying to wave the MRob can easily be cut flag. A big part of it by touting how much the Hawks like Spencer Ware. You could tell that getting a ton of fans responding "MROB WILL NEVER BE CUT!!!" on Twitter only fueled his agenda. But as of just the other day, he relented, admitting that it's probably pretty likely that the Hawks will end up keeping 5 rb's. See, that's the difference between Davis and the other dude. Davis' opinions are 100% football based. Hawkblogger's are 60% football, 40 ego. I'll say it again. There's a ton of vastly superior "Hawk bloggers" out there that don't get the same amount of notice. You're much better off finding them.

As for my own thoughts on MRob being cut. I can understand where people are coming from. The arguments of leadership being overrated are an easy straw man debate. But here's the thing. You don't have any other actual fullbacks on the roster right now. Sure, you got young guys with potential like Ware and Coleman. But as of this moment, neither has done anything for the team to hand over one of it's key starting positions for the entire season to such inexperienced players. For how run focused this team is, do you really think they'd be that haphazard with one of the key blocking aspects of it? Especially when they're already thin in regards of blocking tight ends? And for all the hype and talk of Ware being the player to take over for Robinson, the team has almost primarily used him at halfback this preseason. If the team was considering cutting Robinson, don't you think they'd be playing Ware at fullback at ton right now? If we're going off this preseason, Ware is looking more like a possible future replacement for Lynch than he does MRob.

One last thing on Robinson. I get the whole "leadership is overrated" argument. I really do. And I think it's safe to say that Pete believes in his young guys to step up and pick up the slack whenever it loses one of it's leaders. I was skeptical when he got rid of Hass, Tatupu, and Milloy all in one fail swoop. But we've seen a great example of how the vacuum gets filled if you have a good team. That all said, I think Michael Robinson is a little different of a case. He doesn't just bring the locker room, side line, pre-game pep talk leadership that we all know he does. He also plays a big role in the offensive huddle. It's been well documented the role he plays in helping diagnose defensive schemes and making reads. Being a former qb, he is able to help RW a lot. And as amazing as RW is, he's still a young qb learning and developing. I think it would be a mistake to take that away from him this season. You don't dump a player who does all of that plus is your special teams captain just to save a million or so bucks on next year's cap.

Or maybe you do, and we're all wrong, and we'll have Hawkblogger rubbing our faces in it all season while he roots for Matt Flynn to light it up in Oakland and prove him right on that too.
 

olyfan63

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fsmassey":4rhenl28 said:
MRob expendable?
...
As to the article, I stopped reading after the introduction, because I really disagreed with his evidence that veteran players, leaders aren't worth anything.

Let's look at Ray Lewis as a shining example. There was a statistic last year that showed that even though Ray Lewis' play and stats were hitting bottom, the team still played better with him on the field at all times. The defense literally would rally around him and play better in his presence.

I can't stand analysts who take morale and leadership out of the equation of a winning formula. Morale and leadership have greatly changed this world over thousands of years, from wars to revolutions to social progression.

Mrob is the soul of this team. Keep him til Beast and him go out together.

Love the Ray Lewis analogy. I thought he was toast, injured, but he comes back and leads the Ravens to the Lombardi trophy. And it's like you said, his stats weren't the point, not that great, but somehow he made everyone else around him better, got them in the right places, the quarterback of their defense. It's like the other guys could just play, knowing they were playing as a unit, and let Lewis handle the butt-kicking of guys who tried to do too much and in doing so got out of scheme.

Ray-Lewis-impact might be overstating the case when applied to MRob, but not by a whole bunch. I really get the feeling MRob and his QB eyes and mind contribute to the offensive scheme and adjustments within the game.

I'd be very interested to hear any specific examples people have of how MRob contributes during a game with his mind and leadership, like "during the Dallas game he..." (whatever MRob did). Anyone got some good MRob stories to share that illustrate his on-field impact?
 

olyfan63

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SeaTown81":3tm4onsn said:
... that's the difference between Davis and the other dude. Davis' opinions are 100% football based. Hawkblogger's are 60% football, 40 ego. I'll say it again. There's a ton of vastly superior "Hawk bloggers" out there that don't get the same amount of notice. You're much better off finding them.
...
As for my own thoughts on MRob being cut. I can understand where people are coming from. The arguments of leadership being overrated are an easy straw man debate. But here's the thing. You don't have any other actual fullbacks on the roster right now.
...
One last thing on Robinson. I get the whole "leadership is overrated" argument. I really do.
...
That all said, I think Michael Robinson is a little different of a case. He doesn't just bring the locker room, side line, pre-game pep talk leadership that we all know he does. He also plays a big role in the offensive huddle. It's been well documented the role he plays in helping diagnose defensive schemes and making reads. Being a former qb, he is able to help RW a lot.
..

Awesome post. You mentioned MRob's impact as another set of QB eyes in the huddle, in a general way. Can you recall some specific examples, specific games and plays, that illustrate MRob's impact in this way? Would love it if someone could help us go from the "soft" straw man platitudes that could be debated endlessly, to actual "hard" example game situations that show his impact.
 
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