Is Robinson next?

[jlwaters1]

Hawkblogger has been pushing this Robinson agenda all summer. It actually makes no sense...

Robinson is way too critical to our running game. And I disagree with how casually Hawkblogger dismisses Robinson's leadership. You worry about cap decisions AFTER the Super Bowl run season. There's no reason to release one of your critical players to save cap dollars right before the season.

You also don't plug in unproven "pre-season heroes" like Coleman or Ware, neither of whom have played a down in a regular season NFL game and both of whom are experiments at FB.

Hawkblogger has a tendency to get a little holier-than-thou and reckless at times.

I would disagree with what your saying on this point. I think the "lack of experience" is overrated. FB also isn't a fullt-time contributor, as illustrated in this article, only 1/3 snaps have a FB. Alot of times they use a TE in a moving H-back role. I think you can decide if a guy is good enough by preseason's end. A good example of recent FB conversion success is Bruce Miller from SF- who started immediately and was a converted Lber. If we start moving going with more 1 back sets than I think it makes sense and Ware gives you a better runner and catcher than Robinson. Clearly these last 2 preseason games will be critical to sort all this out. But I get annoyed with pundits on the radio and the like complaining about the lack of experience @ TE and such. If you've got talent than none of that matters. I like Robinson and think he's pretty safe, by the way. But I wouldn't be shocked or disturbed if he was released. In PC I trust.

 

[Starrman44]

The reason that trading TJack to Buffalo worked in the Locker Room was ultimately because Russell Wilson was a better Quarterback. TJack obviously had the hearts of the men in that Locker Room, but Russell was able to win them over because of his effectiveness on the field.

With Mike Rob, you have to have someone that is better replace him. Then the players can see that it was for the best because it also gives the lesser talented player a chance for playing time elsewhere which helps them secure another contract.

The stupidity of this article is the fact that there is nobody currently on the roster that can do what Mike Rob does as a fullback period.

If we have to cut him when we do the other contracts, so be it. At least the guys with the new contracts are going to understand that Mike Rob got cut due to the amount of money they are getting. They can then help smooth things over in the Locker Room and support the new guy.

P.S. I know I am echoing what everyone else is saying. Don't think I've seen a thread on here in which basically everyone agrees. Mike Rob is important to what Marshawn Lynch does as well as the rest of the backs, and our running game is of utmost importance.

 

[Shadowhawk]

Very true - but the issue is timing. I expect several "name" players to be released after this season, because we are going to be up against the cap.

But right before the season when you are already under the cap and don't really need to worry about it until February at the earliest?

No.

Except teams have the capability to roll unused cap dollars into next year's salary cap. If you cut Robinson next year, you save on the base salary he would be paid from that point forward. Whereas if you cut Robinson this year and roll the cap savings forward into the 2014 salary cap, you get an extra $1 million or so in cap room next year that you wouldn't have if you wait until 2014 to cut him, which is why people are talking about doing it now.

I think one of the other posters in this thread identified the problem when he said that nobody had stepped up to replace Robinson yet. Ideally some of the younger fullbacks on the roster would have showed enough by now that you could more easily justify cutting him at this point. It's the same situation with McQuistan at the guard position: if Carpenter could have stayed healthy and Moffitt had stepped up a little more, maybe you cut McQuistan and roll that cap savings over into 2014. But that didn't happen, and I doubt we have seen enough from the stable of running backs to feel good about dropping Robinson either.

The problem is that with the contracts we have coming up, we NEED to start rolling cap money over as soon as possible, which is why I think we could see a surprise cut THIS year, and why it could be Robinson.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Very true - but the issue is timing. I expect several "name" players to be released after this season, because we are going to be up against the cap.

But right before the season when you are already under the cap and don't really need to worry about it until February at the earliest?

No.

Except teams have the capability to roll unused cap dollars into next year's salary cap. If you cut Robinson next year, you save on the base salary he would be paid from that point forward. Whereas if you cut Robinson this year and roll the cap savings forward into the 2014 salary cap, you get an extra $1 million or so in cap room next year that you wouldn't have if you wait until 2014 to cut him, which is why people are talking about doing it now.

I think one of the other posters in this thread identified the problem when he said that nobody had stepped up to replace Robinson yet. Ideally some of the younger fullbacks on the roster would have showed enough by now that you could more easily justify cutting him at this point. It's the same situation with McQuistan at the guard position: if Carpenter could have stayed healthy and Moffitt had stepped up a little more, maybe you cut McQuistan and roll that cap savings over into 2014. But that didn't happen, and I doubt we have seen enough from the stable of running backs to feel good about dropping Robinson either.

The problem is that with the contracts we have coming up, we NEED to start rolling cap money over as soon as possible, which is why I think we could see a surprise cut THIS year, and why it could be Robinson.

Are we trying to win the Super Bowl, or roll cap dollars? That's where it breaks down for me.

Releasing Robinson is not the correct football move, because it weakens the offense - no matter how some people want to dismiss what Mike Rob brings to the offense.

I wouldn't be overly shocked to see Robinson cut, but I don't think the cap savings trumps how important he is for this team (at this point) - and I'd be very disappointed. I just don't see it happening.

 

[HawkFan72]

I still think it would be foolish to release him before this year. After the season, as a free agent, let him walk. But this year, I think he is more important to the team than these arguments suggest.

 

[themunn]

Self-promoters are one of my least favorite types of people on this earth, save for Richard Sherman of course :th2thumbs: , but that's what Nemhauser is and I could care less what he thinks about Robinson and his safety on the 53 Man roster. He might put in the work and know a few things about the team, but who cares we all do, that's why we're on this site 24/7 discussing things. Also, guys like Pete and John know WAYYY much more about the effects of Robinson's leadership and other things in the locker room.

Nothing wrong with self-promoters when there's reason for his basis.
I wonder if he'll nitpick every single minor mistake Robinson makes as reason he's going to get cut as he did for Wilson last year when he was 100% confident he'd be benched for Flynn

 

[themunn]

The problem is that with the contracts we have coming up, we NEED to start rolling cap money over as soon as possible, which is why I think we could see a surprise cut THIS year, and why it could be Robinson.

Why don't we just cut Sidney Rice now and roll that cap over to next year?

Better yet, let's cut Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman then we don't have to worry about extending them at all.

 

[LawlessHawk]

:34853_doh: MRob ain't going anywhere this season... except to the Super Bowl.

I think I'll let the front office worry about cap space while I kick back and enjoy some great football.

 

[TwilightError]

I agree with FlyingGreg. People often credit only the running back for the team effort that is running game. Robinson is close to being as important as Lynch. It is not too wise to underestimate the role of a lead blocking full back in a team which is built on running game. To say MRob can just like that be replaced by a rookie who has not even played full back (but running back / half back) is just saying stuff for the sake of raising discussion.

That said I do think this might be Mikes last season with us. But right now he is good value with his production and salary.

But I quite often like Hawkblogger. He puts a lot of effort in his stuff.

 

[Danny Darko]

MRob is a must at fullback this season IMO, not just his blocking and recieving out of the backfield, but his leadership on and off the field is irreplacable at this point. I can't see him going anywhere this season.

I know how you feel. We said the same thing. He was easily one of the fan's favorites, and we were pretty shocked to see Harbaugh let him walk.

I don't think there will be a drop off like you guys might expect though. The other players are still going to play, they still want to win. It's just something you have to move on from.

But you guys don't use a strict FB approach do you? I thought you often use a hybrid TE formation. Even if we changed to that setup we aren't exactly brimming with healthy TE's we want to battering ram all game long for Lynch.

Also, he evolved into a great blocker after being here for a while, so while his special teams and leadership were great for SF, his blocking was never as good as it was after a full year in Pete's system.

 

[the ditch]

I like Robinson the person, but I don't think he's irreplaceable at the fullback position, I think people here over value his blocking and ability to open up a running lane, Marshawn makes it seem a lot better then it is. But, I don't see anyone better than him on the team and Bevell likes to run the little fullback hand off on third and short that seems to work. Until someone clearly steps up and takes the position away I'd stick with Robinson.

 

[HawkFan72]

MRob is a must at fullback this season IMO, not just his blocking and recieving out of the backfield, but his leadership on and off the field is irreplacable at this point. I can't see him going anywhere this season.

I know how you feel. We said the same thing. He was easily one of the fan's favorites, and we were pretty shocked to see Harbaugh let him walk.

I don't think there will be a drop off like you guys might expect though. The other players are still going to play, they still want to win. It's just something you have to move on from.

I bet you WERE surprised Harbaugh let him walk.

Especially since Harbaugh didn't become the coach of the 49ers until the year after Robinson was cut.

 

[Shadowhawk]

Are we trying to win the Super Bowl, or roll cap dollars? That's where it breaks down for me.

Releasing Robinson is not the correct football move, because it weakens the offense - no matter how some people want to dismiss what Mike Rob brings to the offense.

I wouldn't be overly shocked to see Robinson cut, but I don't think the cap savings trumps how important he is for this team (at this point) - and I'd be very disappointed. I just don't see it happening.

To which I would reply, "are we trying to be a contender for multiple seasons or going all in on 2013 (with no guarantee of a ring) at the expense of future years?" Do you know what it's going to take to keep guys like Okung, Wilson, and Sherman? I don't, but I'm betting it's going to be big, and I'm betting that we are going to have to lose some other important players along the way to get us there. An extra $1 million or so in 2014 could prove to be huge.

I'm not dismissing Robinson's importance to this team, I'm not saying we should cut him this year or even that we WILL cut him this year. Like you, however, I wouldn't be overly shocked if we do, and given what is coming I'd have a hard time blaming the front office if they decide they need to cut him (even though I hope we don't.)

 

[Shadowhawk]

The problem is that with the contracts we have coming up, we NEED to start rolling cap money over as soon as possible, which is why I think we could see a surprise cut THIS year, and why it could be Robinson.

Why don't we just cut Sidney Rice now and roll that cap over to next year?

Better yet, let's cut Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman then we don't have to worry about extending them at all.

:34853_doh:

 

[sutz]

Pete and John are unconventional, but they ain't stupid.

Those advocating cutting MRob now to have an extra $1 mill to roll over til next year remind me of those who advocate losing in December to get a better draft slot in April. Sorry, but I just cannot respect that opinion.

Cutting (or moving him out in any way, shape or form) is the kind of thing the Bidwell's would do in AZ. They've always been cheap bastards. The Seahawks are committed to winning. Sure, they want to make money, but our cap is not in such bad shape that we need to start dismantling the team now.

IMHO, MRob is going nowhere.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Are we trying to win the Super Bowl, or roll cap dollars? That's where it breaks down for me.

Releasing Robinson is not the correct football move, because it weakens the offense - no matter how some people want to dismiss what Mike Rob brings to the offense.

I wouldn't be overly shocked to see Robinson cut, but I don't think the cap savings trumps how important he is for this team (at this point) - and I'd be very disappointed. I just don't see it happening.

To which I would reply, "are we trying to be a contender for multiple seasons or going all in on 2013 (with no guarantee of a ring) at the expense of future years?" Do you know what it's going to take to keep guys like Okung, Wilson, and Sherman? I don't, but I'm betting it's going to be big, and I'm betting that we are going to have to lose some other important players along the way to get us there. An extra $1 million or so in 2014 could prove to be huge.

I'm not dismissing Robinson's importance to this team, I'm not saying we should cut him this year or even that we WILL cut him this year. Like you, however, I wouldn't be overly shocked if we do, and given what is coming I'd have a hard time blaming the front office if they decide they need to cut him (even though I hope we don't.)

Look back at my posts...I keep making the same point, it's about TIMING. Do you really think the cap savings from cutting Robinson is going to make a significant dent in the money it's going to take to re-sign Okung, Wilson and Sherman?? It's not even a drop in the bucket.

We are in agreement that we have hard decisions coming. As I have said, I expect quite a few core pieces to not be on this roster in 2014. But the difference is ... I'd rather keep the team intact this season and give it our best shot at the Lombardi and then make some hard decisions in the off-season.

If they are so worried about cap dollars (which I don't see), there are other ways to save money (Gresham and McQuistan come to mind) that would not have as big an impact on the offense and team overrall as losing Mike Rob. Let the front office worry about the cap - I've never understood why fans fuss about the financial decisions - this front office will do it's best to keep us competitive and fiscally sound. Personally, I'm going to enjoy the season with the best possible team we can put on the field, which includes Robinson.

 

[razgriz737]

With Mike Rob, you have to have someone that is better replace him. Then the players can see that it was for the best because it also gives the lesser talented player a chance for playing time elsewhere which helps them secure another contract.

The stupidity of this article is the fact that there is nobody currently on the roster that can do what Mike Rob does as a fullback period.

Agreed. Based on what we've seen in preseason, I wouldn't be comfortable going ahead with either Ware or Coleman at starting FB. We would be downgrading the FB position, yet Pete has repeatedly said we will continue to be a run-first team this year. I think MRob is too valuable to let go at this particular point in time. To me, it would make much more sense to be having this conversation at the end of the season, as other posters have already said.

 

[jammerhawk]

RBs coach Sherman Smith doesn't think MRob is a likely cut

http://www.fieldgulls.com/on-the-airwav ... e-airwaves

He says the team is better with Robinson the All Pro FB, ranks Coleman ahead of Ware, and says for Michael to see the field as part of the 45 he will need to play on ST.

 

[Blitzer88]

There is no way Mike Rob is let go. His is a vital leader on this team and a heck of a player.

 

[Shadowhawk]

Are we trying to win the Super Bowl, or roll cap dollars? That's where it breaks down for me.

Releasing Robinson is not the correct football move, because it weakens the offense - no matter how some people want to dismiss what Mike Rob brings to the offense.

I wouldn't be overly shocked to see Robinson cut, but I don't think the cap savings trumps how important he is for this team (at this point) - and I'd be very disappointed. I just don't see it happening.

To which I would reply, "are we trying to be a contender for multiple seasons or going all in on 2013 (with no guarantee of a ring) at the expense of future years?" Do you know what it's going to take to keep guys like Okung, Wilson, and Sherman? I don't, but I'm betting it's going to be big, and I'm betting that we are going to have to lose some other important players along the way to get us there. An extra $1 million or so in 2014 could prove to be huge.

I'm not dismissing Robinson's importance to this team, I'm not saying we should cut him this year or even that we WILL cut him this year. Like you, however, I wouldn't be overly shocked if we do, and given what is coming I'd have a hard time blaming the front office if they decide they need to cut him (even though I hope we don't.)

Look back at my posts...I keep making the same point, it's about TIMING. Do you really think the cap savings from cutting Robinson is going to make a significant dent in the money it's going to take to re-sign Okung, Wilson and Sherman?? It's not even a drop in the bucket.

We are in agreement that we have hard decisions coming. As I have said, I expect quite a few core pieces to not be on this roster in 2014. But the difference is ... I'd rather keep the team intact this season and give it our best shot at the Lombardi and then make some hard decisions in the off-season.

If they are so worried about cap dollars (which I don't see), there are other ways to save money (Gresham and McQuistan come to mind) that would not have as big an impact on the offense and team overrall as losing Mike Rob. Let the front office worry about the cap - I've never understood why fans fuss about the financial decisions - this front office will do it's best to keep us competitive and fiscally sound. Personally, I'm going to enjoy the season with the best possible team we can put on the field, which includes Robinson.

I know that the point you are making is about timing. The point I am making is that there is a benefit to cutting Robinson now, namely increased cap space for future years. The question then becomes whether the benefit of increased cap space offsets the loss of Robinson this year. In my opinion, we haven't seen enough of Ware or Coleman at fullback to be comfortable starting one of them at fullback, so I wouldn't make the move. But Carroll and Schneider might feel differently.

Part of trusting the front office to make the right financial decisions is recognizing that they will make some moves for financial reasons. As to whether an extra million will make a difference, I think over the next few years we need to save every dollar we possibly can in order to keep our big time players. And while I wouldn't characterize Carroll and Schneider as being "worried" about the cap, I do believe it plays a large role in their decision making. Look at Kellen Winslow last year: we could have afforded his existing contract, but cut him when he wouldn't take a pay cut. If Carroll and Schneider do believe there is an adequate replacement for Robinson on the roster, I think they would make the move to save cap room. (Once again, I don't think they will or think they should, but this front office had fooled us all before.)