Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

knownone

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This works both ways though. It feels like a lot of people are forcing their opinion of Smith because they hated Russ so much that they overrate Geno a little bit. I think this is much more common than the crowd who loves Wilson and that makes them underrate Geno. How many people speak highly of Russ in here? Not many.

Not saying you’re wrong but that it works both ways.

Look Geno is underrated by some and overrated by others. He has to do better than 20 touchdowns this year if we’re going to make a playoff run. I think he would say the same thing.
You shouldn't pretend to represent the middle ground while clearly taking a side. This reads like something Fade would write.
 

Ozzy

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You shouldn't pretend to represent the middle ground while clearly taking a side. This reads like something Fade would write.
It’s not taking any middle ground and no idea how you came to that conclusion. The point was people have a bias that hinges on Russ that swings both ways. I don’t think they is even debatable. Heck Fade was actually on the extreme end of this debate.

I’m fine taking a “middle ground” with Geno though. He’s a good QB. He’s in that middle range and for a guy who didn’t get a second chance until he was 10 years in the league is quite an accomplishment. I just think talk of him being too 5-8 is a little crazy. I think almost everyone outside of Seahawks fans would agree.
 

Ozzy

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We didn’t have a chance at Richardson though
He went one pick earlier right unless I’m remembering it wrong? Rumors were we tried to trade up or considered it but again total rumors.
 

chris98251

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Stan Gelbaugh, Dan McGwire, Jeff Kemp, Kelly Stouffer, John Friesz, Jon Kitna, Rick Mirer, Jim Zorn, Dave Krieg, Matt Hasselbeck, Tarvaris Jackson, Trent Dilfer, Warren Moon, Charlie Whitehurst, Gale Gilbert, Charlie Frye, Bruce Mathison, Seneca Wallace, Glenn Foley, Russell Wilson,

Which of our QB's is all world please tell me, Wilson was our winning Super Bowl QB, but as we have seen he was not the reason we won as much as his supporting cast.

People are screaming for the QB of the future, look at that list, Moon past his prime would be the closest we came to sniffing that, Freisz a displaced starter, Foley same thing, Dilfer a place holder to get Matt to raise his game, Jackson another displaced starter who was a transition guy, the rest back ups and hopefuls that failed including McGwire and Mirer along with Stouffer. Whitehurst a failed attempt to do what they did with Geno.

If we want to compare what we have had to Geno I think the closest would be Zorn, Kreig, and Hasselbeck, maybe Kitna. Not all world to be sure, but a cross between gritty, leaders, and smart. with talent under rated for a long time.

Took a bit for them to get their footing, Geno needs to let the game come to him and not press in the red zone, he also needs a consistent scheme and players around him, we have had a revolving door for both especially the O Line and blocking schemes, something Mahomes to use a current NFL God according to many even suffered under with a questionable line, which they went and immediately remedied then went on a Super Bowl tear.
 
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pittpnthrs

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I'd take Geno over most QBs in the league .

Not sure I can agree with that. I see Geno lumped in with a bunch of QB's of the same or near talent level. Thats being black and white though. There's a few really good QB's in the league and then there's a ton of fairly average QB's (where Geno lands), and a group of pretty bad QB's. You also have to take into consideration the weapons these QB's have on offense to throw to. Geno is pretty lucky in that aspect.

I just feel that there's a lot of QB's in the league that could replicate what Geno does if they were on Seattles roster. Just my opinion though.
 

pittpnthrs

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we have had a revolving door for both especially the O Line and blocking schemes, something Mahomes to use a current NFL God according to many even suffered under with a questionable line, which they went and immediately remedied then went on a Super Bowl tear.

We got Dee Eskridge though.
 

Maelstrom787

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50 Mil for Geno effin Smith? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Now THAT was funny.
It might not be that far fetched. Those contracts are rocketing up in value like no one's business, along with the cap itself rising meteorically. We're already at 6 QBs over $50m APY and 10 QBs over $45m APY.

These contracts are going to start looking even more like monopoly money soon.
 

themunn

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What superbowl did Rich Gannon win? The only superbowl I remember him being involved with was with the Raiders in 2002 in which the TB beat the Raiders fairly easily. Was he in any others that I may have missed?

Brain fart, sorry. He did win MVP though!
 

themunn

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Huh. Not sure why I remember 2017 being so much worse defensively. Must be the overall stank of that year clouding my judgment.

Because in your memory you are comparing it to 2012-2016 (even 2016 we were 3rd, 5th in points and yards, but takeaways fell off dramatically) - 2017 felt much worse than it was because it was much worse than what had preceded it. But we'd kill for that 2017 defense today, which still had Kam, ET, Sherm, Wagner, Wright, Bennett, Avril, Clark, Reed, Coleman, Lane, Griffin etc - we were decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball but that is still a lot of very talented players who aside from Kam and Avril retiring with injuries, (mostly) went on to play many more years at a top level in the NFL - some still there 7 years later.
 

SoulfishHawk

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It might not be that far fetched. Those contracts are rocketing up in value like no one's business, along with the cap itself rising meteorically. We're already at 6 QBs over $50m APY and 10 QBs over $45m APY.

These contracts are going to start looking even more like monopoly money soon.
Yup. It's crazy what average QB's are getting paid. But your point is a good one. It's not as farfetched as it should be.
 

themunn

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Did you miss the part where he said "Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level"? With a comment like that, it's a wonder how Smith wasn't starting in front of Wilson since he's so awesome.

When Smith can win even just one post season game, i'll reconsider my opinion of him.

I mean in 2020 Wilson still threw 40 TDs, over 4000 yards and won 12 games. You're not benching that guy even if you have the next Patrick Mahomes on the bench sorry.

2021 Wilson "faltered" (he still finished 5th in QB rating, throwing 25 TDs to 6 Ints for the season despite his injury) and yet we got rid of him the very next season in favour of Geno, who played better than him in relief. So yes, that's exactly what happened. Of course if you bench Wilson at that moment for Geno you don't have have the leverage to get a kings ransom in picks from the Broncos, so the FO and Carroll played it perfectly.

Peyton Manning also went 0-3 in his first 3 postseason games. Didn't win one until his SIXTH year as a starter.

And finally, the Baker Mayfield comparison - you know there's a possibility that Mayfield is actually also a good QB. After breaking the rookie TD record for a team that finished 0-16 the season before, he subsequently led the Browns to their first winning record in 14 years, best record in over 25 years, broke their league record playoff drought and won their first playoff game since 94. He also had a pretty good season last year and won a road playoff game as a wildcard. Just because he was stuck at the Browns doesn't mean he can't also win a superbowl down the line - Matt Stafford didn't win a single playoff game in 12 years at the Lions then won 4 and a superbowl his first year as a Ram.
 
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Ozzy

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Stan Gelbaugh, Dan McGwire, Jeff Kemp, Kelly Stouffer, John Friesz, Jon Kitna, Rick Mirer, Jim Zorn, Dave Krieg, Matt Hasselbeck, Tarvaris Jackson, Trent Dilfer, Warren Moon, Charlie Whitehurst, Gale Gilbert, Charlie Frye, Bruce Mathison, Seneca Wallace, Glenn Foley, Russell Wilson,

Which of our QB's is all world please tell me, Wilson was our winning Super Bowl QB, but as we have seen he was not the reason we won as much as his supporting cast.

People are screaming for the QB of the future, look at that list, Moon past his prime would be the closest we came to sniffing that, Freisz a displaced starter, Foley same thing, Dilfer a place holder to get Matt to raise his game, Jackson another displaced starter who was a transition guy, the rest back ups and hopefuls that failed including McGwire and Mirer along with Stouffer. Whitehurst a failed attempt to do what they did with Geno.

If we want to compare what we have had to Geno I think the closest would be Zorn, Kreig, and Hasselbeck, maybe Kitna. Not all world to be sure, but a cross between gritty, leaders, and smart. with talent under rated for a long time.

Took a bit for them to get their footing, Geno needs to let the game come to him and not press in the red zone, he also needs a consistent scheme and players around him, we have had a revolving door for both especially the O Line and blocking schemes, something Mahomes to use a current NFL God according to many even suffered under with a questionable line, which they went and immediately remedied then went on a Super Bowl tear.
We don't win a SB without Wilson. He was critical to the offense and the run game.

I see your overall point but the sad reality is if you don't have an elite QB you're not going very far in the playoffs unless you have an outlier advantage on defense and even then most of the teams that make it are still top 3-5 on offense too with defense being the strength of their team. if you look at the final 8 teams year after year its almost all teams with elite QB play and seems to have trended even further in that direction the past 10 years or so.

I think Seattle is doing the best with the hand they got dealt. They haven't been in a position to upgrade from Geno so stick with him and they brought in a guy who some scouts said was as good as any QB in this draft. That's probably not true but I think its a smart move for the position.

So I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't fault fans for wanting an elite guy again because having Wilson for 10 years made life a lot easier and getting an elite guy now would increase our odds dramatically moving forward. It's just really hard to get in position to draft one so here's to hoping Grubb can turn Geno into a guy who can play at that level like Detroit did with Goff, Purdy in San Fran etc.
 

Ozzy

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Yup. It's crazy what average QB's are getting paid. But your point is a good one. It's not as farfetched as it should be.
Nah he would be 35+ when he's up for his next contract. No one is paying him 50+ million at that stage of his career especially after throwing 20 touchdowns last year. Even if he rebounds and gets into the 30 touchdown range its still highly unlikely in my opinion. I guess its possible a team is just one QB away and signs a guy for a year to try to win a SB? But the Geno we saw last year wasn't that guy.
 

pittpnthrs

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I mean in 2020 Wilson still threw 40 TDs, over 4000 yards and won 12 games. You're not benching that guy even if you have the next Patrick Mahomes on the bench sorry.

2021 Wilson "faltered" (he still finished 5th in QB rating, throwing 25 TDs to 6 Ints for the season despite his injury) and yet we got rid of him the very next season in favour of Geno, who played better than him in relief. So yes, that's exactly what happened. Of course if you bench Wilson at that moment for Geno you don't have have the leverage to get a kings ransom in picks from the Broncos, so the FO and Carroll played it perfectly.

Peyton Manning also went 0-3 in his first 3 postseason games. Didn't win one until his SIXTH year as a starter.

And finally, the Baker Mayfield comparison - you know there's a possibility that Mayfield is actually also a good QB. After breaking the rookie TD record for a team that finished 0-16 the season before, he subsequently led the Browns to their first winning record in 14 years, best record in over 25 years, broke their league record playoff drought and won their first playoff game since 94. He also had a pretty good season last year and won a road playoff game as a wildcard. Just because he was stuck at the Browns doesn't mean he can't also win a superbowl down the line - Matt Stafford didn't win a single playoff game in 12 years at the Lions then won 4 and a superbowl his first year as a Ram.

Lol. Come on. Wilson wasn't traded in favor of Geno Smith. Wilson was traded because he wanted out of a very stagnant organization and he made waves about it. Geno just happened to be the only thing left at that point. Wilson also got a kings ransom as you mentioned. A ransom that Geno Smith could never command mind you.

Fair point with Manning, but I don't believe anybody was questioning his talent ever.

Mayfield is on his 4th team in 5 years. Good QB's don't get bounced around like that. Cleveland got rid of him because they saw the writing on the wall. He's barely above average.
 
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