I think my season-long concern was amplified today

[seahawk12thman]

My one not-so-random-thought

I've been saying for months that this offense has nothing resembling a legitimate drop back passing game and it was brutal today. Saying this usually just gets me labeled as a "Bevell hater" but all year long this team has lacked ability to drop and throw, and I think its the biggest problem facing this team going into the play offs. When was the last time you saw Russ just take the snap, make his drop, and find an open receiver - let alone one between the hashes? His numbers are a bit skewed in his favor because he's so damn good at scrambling and finding open guys, because we rarely see him find someone open quickly.

I've long thought Bevell has not put together a good drop back package and struggles mightily against good blitzing teams. Today we saw both of those bite the Hawks in the ass. IMO, there's a total lack of creativity we saw at the end of last year, and a REALLY poor blitz package. We struggle to move the ball against "tough" teams that punch us in the jaw and come after us. If you go back to week 1, and look at, Houston, STL, TB, SF, now Arizona, they all gave us fits in a similar manner. Fortunately, we were able to make a few big plays to get things turned into our favor against Houston and TB.

I think it's safe to say there's a blueprint out there to at least give our offense a lot of trouble. Our receivers aren't as good as we'd like to think when it comes to route running, and so far Russ isn't quite the passer that can "throw guys open." I hate that I have to qualify that statement by saying I love the kid and everything he does for this team, but right now that's my take on things as it has been all year. we're finally playing some better teams now though, instead of teams like Houston, TB and STL that weren't quite sure how to win games at that point in the season. The rest of the season is going to get a hell of a lot tougher than it was when we could come back against teams, so hopefully we see some creativity and not just "This is what we do on offense" the rest of the year.

Queue the snarky replies.

You are absolutely right and I didn't see it until yesterday. We are very thin at wide receiver and we have very little in the way of stretching teams over the top. This is why we have kept Lockett on the team because we have not been very good. Teams are going to load the box and make us beat them deep. We are going to struggle with the Rams next week because of this. I realize now how important Sidney Rice was because of his size and speed he kept defenses honest, once Kearse had a sprained ankle, there was no worry from the Cardinals defense at all. Credit Bruce Arian for exploiting this. As much as I might get maligned for this, we really need Percy Harvin.

 

[Happypuppy]

The coaches just playing to watch his quarterback does very well

I just don't think Wilson is the classic dropback quarterback.

The problems as I see them after reviewing the game for a second time are:
Penalties; by that I will break it down to dumb, bonehead play penalties

Lack of separation by the wide receivers. This has been an ongoing problem for two years

Not effective use of the TE

During the game play adjustments. Granted we try to dictate tempo and such but if the play is not working in the first half why do you think it will work in the second half?

 

[seahawk12thman]

The coaches just playing to watch his quarterback does very well

I just don't think Wilson is the classic dropback quarterback.

The problems as I see them after reviewing the game for a second time are:
Penalties; by that I will break it down to dumb, bonehead play penalties

Lack of separation by the wide receivers. This has been an ongoing problem for two years

Not effective use of the TE

During the game play adjustments. Granted we try to dictate tempo and such but if the play is not working in the first half why do you think it will work in the second half?

The problem isn't lack of separation. Our receivers get open when they are running 0-10 yard routes, but it that doesn't work when you are trying to go deep. They don't have the physical speed wide receiver to do that. When you stack the box, there are fewer and fewer options in that 10 yard radius because it is now so much more cluttered. Maybe Richard Sherman can play offense LOL.

 

[Anthony!]

I think it's safe to say there's a blueprint out there to at least give our offense a lot of trouble. Our receivers aren't as good as we'd like to think when it comes to route running, and so far Russ isn't quite the passer that can "throw guys open."
Queue the snarky replies.

Have to disagree RW has thrown guys open but they still need to make the play, and the play has to be called to allow that. Example see the td scoring drive, however given we only threw deep in the first 2 drives, and POC said that was their plan it is hard to throw anyone open when they are not making plays and the other team knows whats coming

 

[plyka]

"watching Brady drop back in the pocket"

umm... yea ...did you happen to notice the pocket? We can't design a "pocket passing offense for Russ because there is no pocket to pass from! There are a myriad of debatable reasons why our offensive line play is bad but there is no getting around the fact that it is so.

I disagree. Due to Wilson's ability they gave him a pocket. If you're an edge rusher and are concerned only with getting to the QB then they way you get to the QB can differ, sometimes you take a bull rush sometimes you go around and sometimes you go to the inside. The goal is to get to the QB as fast as possible. The Arizona edge rushers did not do this, they were concerned with containment. Thus they always went to the outside with the number one concern being containment. This provided Wilson with the pocket and also with no place to run outside of the pocket. It was a strategy Arizona employed.

Against this strategy Wilson has to stay in the pocket not play into Arizonas hands by willingly taking yor eyes off the WRs and running outside to where the defenders are waiting. This comes with experience.

I'm the meantime if you're the OC you have to adjust by calling something different than running go routes all the time. The biggest weapon an offense has is surprise.

 

[Anthony!]

The coaches just playing to watch his quarterback does very well

I just don't think Wilson is the classic dropback quarterback.

The problems as I see them after reviewing the game for a second time are:
Penalties; by that I will break it down to dumb, bonehead play penalties

Lack of separation by the wide receivers. This has been an ongoing problem for two years

Not effective use of the TE

During the game play adjustments. Granted we try to dictate tempo and such but if the play is not working in the first half why do you think it will work in the second half?

Rw has shown he can be a drop back passer, the problem is for that to work you need to call plays that are more than deep passes that take time, especially with an o-line that does not give you time. As you can see by one of my posts the play calling has changed and it was only on the 1 scoring drive we did yesterday were they got back to what works. You cannot take away quick routes, screens, short and intermediate routes and only call long ones and not expect problems. You need a mix and yesterday we did not have one. By the way the TD throw to the TE was a drop back pass, it worked because they had several different types of routes being run not just deep ones.

 

[jamsomatic]

Queue the snarky replies.

^Snarkiest comment in this thread. LOL!!

Most of us agree with the gist of the op.

 

[Hawks46]

We've gotten away with the lack of a drop-and-throw package because the shots Wilson does take usually work out. Today most of them got dropped.

There's also the concern that Wilson may be hard to design a drop-and-throw package for, because of...yep...his height.

I'd agree with this, especially since we don't throw to the middle of the field quickly, but NO has worked it out for Drew Brees.

I think it's more of our WR corps. Baldwin is a great, but he's not a mismatch on the outside, he's better suited for the slot. Kearse was limping, so I think he wasn't 100%. I'd say Tate disappears against elite CBs, but he tore up Peterson last time they met.

This was a game we missed Harvin. That's a guy you can line up and has separation in 3 steps. He's a born blitz beater.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I disagree. Due to Wilson's ability they gave him a pocket. If you're an edge rusher and are concerned only with getting to the QB then they way you get to the QB can differ, sometimes you take a bull rush sometimes you go around and sometimes you go to the inside. The goal is to get to the QB as fast as possible. The Arizona edge rushers did not do this, they were concerned with containment. Thus they always went to the outside with the number one concern being containment. This provided Wilson with the pocket and also with no place to run outside of the pocket. It was a strategy Arizona employed..

Even with Arizona's edge rushers keeping contain, they were still able to get pressure up the middle, which is why Wilson had nowhere to go when he tried to scramble. Too many times the pocket collapsed and Wilson ran right into the D-Lineman who was only there to contain. Which led to all the throws out of bounds and almost interceptions.

 

[seahawk12thman]

We've gotten away with the lack of a drop-and-throw package because the shots Wilson does take usually work out. Today most of them got dropped.

There's also the concern that Wilson may be hard to design a drop-and-throw package for, because of...yep...his height.

I'd agree with this, especially since we don't throw to the middle of the field quickly, but NO has worked it out for Drew Brees.

I think it's more of our WR corps. Baldwin is a great, but he's not a mismatch on the outside, he's better suited for the slot. Kearse was limping, so I think he wasn't 100%. I'd say Tate disappears against elite CBs, but he tore up Peterson last time they met.

This was a game we missed Harvin. That's a guy you can line up and has separation in 3 steps. He's a born blitz beater.

Yeah we keep making fun of the Harvin but his return could be the difference between winning the Super Bowl or not going at all.

 

[CANHawk]

Not effective use of the TE

This was something that befuddled me as well. I would have loved to seen something dialed up to take advantage of Willson's (2L's) speed up the seam. They really had our number from a match-up standpoint, so some contribution from further down the depth chart would have been a big help. I don't really recall Willson doing much of anything yesterday...

I realize now how important Sidney Rice was because of his size and speed he kept defenses honest, once Kearse had a sprained ankle, there was no worry from the Cardinals defense at all. Credit Bruce Arian for exploiting this. As much as I might get maligned for this, we really need Percy Harvin.

<gasp> but I read on here that Sidney Rice was horrible! :shock:

I was SO not happy when Sid got hurt. He brought a whole other dynamic to the recieving corps that Kearse (while totally exceeding my expectations) hasn't really been able to replicate. While I'm not one of those guys who thinks we absolutely NEED a Brandon Marshall or a Vincent Jackson, we do a lot better with that long, fast guy that DC's have to gameplan for. Losing Rice took a dimension away from our offense and made us easier to deal with.

Here's to hoping Percy is ready to go for the playoffs...

 

[seahawk12thman]

<gasp> but I read on here that Sidney Rice was horrible! :shock:

I was SO not happy when Sid got hurt. He brought a whole other dynamic to the recieving corps that Kearse (while totally exceeding my expectations) hasn't really been able to replicate. While I'm not one of those guys who thinks we absolutely NEED a Brandon Marshall or a Vincent Jackson, we do a lot better with that long, fast guy that DC's have to gameplan for. Losing Rice took a dimension away from our offense and made us easier to deal with.

Here's to hoping Percy is ready to go for the playoffs...

Kearse has to get healthy because as we have seen, we can't rely on Percy. If he doesn't get healthy, I don't see how we will move the ball effectively on the Rams. Yesterday's game was a wake up call for me. Our Oline, DLine and DB's along with special teams played well but we were helpless against (I believe 17th ranked pass defense). The Rams will blitz us all day and with Quinn and Long, we will not have as much time to throw against that D as we did today. We have to have somebody who can stretch the Defense and the Rams are vulnerable there but Baldwin and Tate will not get the job done...

 

[CANHawk]

<gasp> but I read on here that Sidney Rice was horrible! :shock:

I was SO not happy when Sid got hurt. He brought a whole other dynamic to the recieving corps that Kearse (while totally exceeding my expectations) hasn't really been able to replicate. While I'm not one of those guys who thinks we absolutely NEED a Brandon Marshall or a Vincent Jackson, we do a lot better with that long, fast guy that DC's have to gameplan for. Losing Rice took a dimension away from our offense and made us easier to deal with.

Here's to hoping Percy is ready to go for the playoffs...

Kearse has to get healthy because as we have seen, we can't rely on Percy. If he doesn't get healthy, I don't see how we will move the ball effectively on the Rams. Yesterday's game was a wake up call for me. Our Oline, DLine and DB's along with special teams played well but we were helpless against (I believe 17th ranked pass defense). The Rams will blitz us all day and with Quinn and Long, we will not have as much time to throw against that D as we did today. We have to have somebody who can stretch the Defense and the Rams are vulnerable there but Baldwin and Tate will not get the job done...

I think the key thing against Arizona though was that they also have an extremely good secondary to go with the pressure they were doling out. Russell was escaping the pressure and buying tons of time with his feet, but nobody was ever open. The Cards did an amazing job of shutting down our recievers (and we helped them a ton by not running any short/intermediate routes, but I digress). I don't see STL giving us the same problem. A nicked up Jenoris Jenkins and a declining Cortland Finnegan shouldn't give us the same trouble Patrick Peterson and co were able to. I think we match up a lot better against the Rams.

 

[Hawk4lyfe]

My one not-so-random-thought

I've been saying for months that this offense has nothing resembling a legitimate drop back passing game and it was brutal today. Saying this usually just gets me labeled as a "Bevell hater" but all year long this team has lacked ability to drop and throw, and I think its the biggest problem facing this team going into the play offs. When was the last time you saw Russ just take the snap, make his drop, and find an open receiver - let alone one between the hashes? His numbers are a bit skewed in his favor because he's so damn good at scrambling and finding open guys, because we rarely see him find someone open quickly.

I've long thought Bevell has not put together a good drop back package and struggles mightily against good blitzing teams. Today we saw both of those bite the Hawks in the ass. IMO, there's a total lack of creativity we saw at the end of last year, and a REALLY poor blitz package. We struggle to move the ball against "tough" teams that punch us in the jaw and come after us. If you go back to week 1, and look at, Houston, STL, TB, SF, now Arizona, they all gave us fits in a similar manner. Fortunately, we were able to make a few big plays to get things turned into our favor against Houston and TB.

I think it's safe to say there's a blueprint out there to at least give our offense a lot of trouble. Our receivers aren't as good as we'd like to think when it comes to route running, and so far Russ isn't quite the passer that can "throw guys open." I hate that I have to qualify that statement by saying I love the kid and everything he does for this team, but right now that's my take on things as it has been all year. we're finally playing some better teams now though, instead of teams like Houston, TB and STL that weren't quite sure how to win games at that point in the season. The rest of the season is going to get a hell of a lot tougher than it was when we could come back against teams, so hopefully we see some creativity and not just "This is what we do on offense" the rest of the year.

Queue the snarky replies.

I agree. its concerning. That along with the tendency to just throw the ball up and hope our players make a better play than the CB. It works against weaker teams, but playoff caliber teams and teams with good secondarys can stop that, as AZ did. Regardless of how this season ends, I'd like to see the team look for a big WR in the draft. A 6'5 kinda guy with a bit of speed. And our O line needs work. Our weakest link imo

 

[seahawks08]

I think the fear of getting intercepted kept RW from throwing, but the run was not going anywhere, we needed to air it down anyways. I means 3 and out versus an interception deep, I mean Carlson Palmer was throwing interception everywhere and still won. We need to throw sometimes if the run is not working, so that we get more space to run.