Hitting the QB on the read option

[12th_Bob]

I guess some might be missing the point. Or maybe are taking this issue too lightly. To me, this is seriously flawed ...
A traditional QB cannot be hit, once he has released (thrown) the ball. Correct? Hitting the QB will result in "Roughing the passer" penalty.
I understand that any QB that is passed the line of scrimmage or outside the tackle box can be hit. I get that.

But, Once a QB fakes the Read Option and the runner (RB) is gone with the ball, can a defender hit the QB out of nowhere?
Basically, the defender might know, he can't catch up to the RB who is already a few yards down the field, but the defensive player might decide to just keep going towards the QB and hit push/him/tackle him.
This may sound harmless and one(1) or two(2) hits might not matter, but 5 - 10 hits , real tackling of the QB who doesn't have the ball? I'm sorry folks, this is going to get some QBs hurt (including RW). I believe ESPN did show a footage, where CK was consistently pushed/hit by Suggs, well after the ball was gone ...

It is simply naive to believe "Well, won't happen to our QB" and that it will only happen to the QBs of the other team(s) we don't like. When defenders start taking shots at helpless QBs, this is not fun, regardless of which QB it is. And the league knows it. I'm just shocked they are doing nothing to prevent it.

What about QBs who do the play action? And end up NOT giving the ball to the RBs? They are still in the tackle box. Can they get hit? Nothing says they are going to throw the ball ... They could decide to run ... correct? Isn't that a form of read-option? (fake the run and keep the ball) ...

The way I understand it, if the QB is CLEARLY not envolved in the play, he is protected, but if he is hit, say 1 second or 1.5 seconds after, he is fair game. Again, it's making sure the QB is clearly not in the play. The NFL says that if a QB places his hands in the air to show he doesnt have the ball, he is good, but if he fakes and takes off and runs to fool the D into thinking he has the ball, he can get blown up.

Yup, that is how I understand it as well. I guess we'll see how many times a "read" defender actually gets to lay a hit though as the ball will either be pulled in and taken if they take out the RB or handed off if the defender doesn't make a move.

Watching the zone read is really fun at the NFL level.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Read the release on the rule again.

It is very specific. The QB is not protected in the read option until the QB has taken themselves out of the play.

This means you absolutely get a free shot at the QB after almost every handoff where the QB acts as if they might have the ball as a running threat. It is now the responsibility of the QB to clearly communicate they are not a runner by communicating they are out of the play, until they do this they are an available target.

That is how I am interpreting the rule.

Of course, they cannot take free shots at the QB if the QB clearly does not have the ball. But since the read option works by confusing the defense as to who has the ball as long as the defender can reasonably think the QB still might have the ball they are allowed to consider them a runner and hit them.

HERE IS YOUR QUOTE:
“He is still treated as a runner until he is clearly out of the play,”....“The quarterback makes the pitch, he’s still a runner — he can be hit like a runner until he’s clearly out of the play.”

If an offense is running a play designed to keep the defense guessing about who’s getting the ball, it’s only fair for the defense to be allowed to tackle both players who might have the ball according to the VP of Officiating.

“The quarterback and the running back, they’re both treated as runners."

If the defense does not know who has the ball they can hit either one target or both. So the way you would prevent being hit would be to clarify you do not have the ball which negates the advantage of uncertainty that the read option provides.

Whether the ball is pitched or handed off is immaterial. The new ruling encourages a defense to target and hit the QB first, and look for the ball second.

 

[chris98251]

The QB is a live player on a fake if he is extending the ruse he has the ball.

 

[camdawg]

Read the release on the rule again.

It is very specific. The QB is not protected in the read option until the QB has taken themselves out of the play.

This means you absolutely get a free shot at the QB after almost every handoff where the QB acts as if they might have the ball as a running threat. It is now the responsibility of the QB to clearly communicate they are not a runner by communicating they are out of the play, until they do this they are an available target.

That is how I am interpreting the rule.

Of course, they cannot take free shots at the QB if the QB clearly does not have the ball. But since the read option works by confusing the defense as to who has the ball as long as the defender can reasonably think the QB still might have the ball they are allowed to consider them a runner and hit them.

.

But here's the thing about the read option-and how it's so different than the option plays of the past. Once the backside DE has either stayed home, or decided to rush the QB, the QB will immediately hand the ball off, and no longer has any reason to fake that he might still have the ball. Watch Oregon....once the handoff has taken place, Mariota doesn't really fake that he has the ball. He doesn't need to-as Oregon has a man advantage at the point of attack for the tailback to exploit.

That's why running at the QB if you're the optioned defender in a zone read play is often the worst possible thing you could do. You make the QB's read easy and immediate-and for very fast tailbacks, you've given them a possible cutback lane to the backside. Really, the only way you might be able to guarantee a hit on the QB in a zone read play, is to force him to keep it by having the optioned defender go after the tailback.

 

[kearly]

There is no pitch in the read option.

I was just going to say, I don't really remember Wilson doing any option-pitch type plays last season. Maybe he did, but I can't recall any of them.

Cam Newton, on the other hand...

 

[acbass]

When I think of the QB getting smashed I think of the traditional option play where the quarterback pitches the ball. (Think Speed Option or all of Madden and NCAA video game fans.) To me, hitting a quarterback that has clearly handed the ball off seems to go against this whole "can't look at him the wrong way" mentality towards protecting QBs. Oh, an that read option total has to be an overall number and not an average time per game number. There is no way we ran it more than them after Kapernick took over.

 

[AbsolutNET]

Huge difference between what's being run now and the traditional triple option. The QB is 5 yards away from the DE he's reading now, not 1 step away from a DE that has been told to ignore the FB and hammer the QB every play. Veer style triple option was a nightmare for QB's, and what we have these days was developed to 1. spread the field and be able to run option with 4 wide and 2. protect the QB. The QB only needs to carry out a fake long enough to freeze a defender, and that isn't even the case very often if it's a give read. Just hand it off and run the inside zone up front.

 

[davidonmi]

we will rarely run the read option this year, it is merely something to keep the other team off balance

 

[drdiags]

The issue is that last year, Wilson would continue his fake long after the handoff. He would continue to sprint toward the vacated area as if he had the ball. The NFL is saying in this case, he can be blasted even if it is 4-5 secs after handing off the ball. Jim H asked for a clarification and from what I read in the response from the NFL, those brushing it aside as a non-issue probably will be the first ones griping about non-calls on hits delivered on the QB. Not sure why the NFL is taking this position, maybe they want more emphasis on passing and are trying to limit the multi-dimensional QB role starting to spring up?

 

[PlinytheCenter]

Watching those gifs of Harbaugh....I wonder what the over/under is for his head exploding during a game.

That guy is a serious cantidate for a stroke.

No kidding. Wow. I saw Holmgren get pissed a few times but not on a regular basis. The one time I thought he was going to have stoke was during the NFCCG when the refs didn't call a block in the back on a punt return for a Panther TD. It was the last points they scored however.

 

[SharkHawk]

That play was bullcrap. There were 2 clear blocks in the back. It felt like the media had built up Steve Smith this Steve Smith that all freaking week that the refs felt like he HAD to have a big moment, or the game wouldn't be complete. It was a ridiculous joke. Mediots were talking all week about how the Hawks could NOT cover Smith. Dyson was too slow..... Trufant wouldn't stay home on fakes, etc. Then their run game was going to open up Smith and vice-versa. Lofa takes their run game out in about 30 seconds by smashing Goings into next week and Kevin Bentley lines up as a freaking CB on the first play and I'm like "Oh... this is going to be funny as hell." It was the ONE time Marshall wanted to play bump all year, and it was putting our biggest LBer on a 5'7" WR and smashing him into the turf immediately. Awesome.

 

[joeseahawks]

Exactly.
I wonder if the NFL is seeing read-option QBs as a step back in the league...
Does the NFL want more Russell Wilson or more Payton Manning?
I can clearly say the NFL wants more of the later.

The issue is that last year, Wilson would continue his fake long after the handoff. He would continue to sprint toward the vacated area as if he had the ball. The NFL is saying in this case, he can be blasted even if it is 4-5 secs after handing off the ball. Jim H asked for a clarification and from what I read in the response from the NFL, those brushing it aside as a non-issue probably will be the first ones griping about non-calls on hits delivered on the QB. Not sure why the NFL is taking this position, maybe they want more emphasis on passing and are trying to limit the multi-dimensional QB role starting to spring up?

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

This only affects actual running quarterbacks like RG3, Kaepernick. EJ Manual and that poor fool in Oakland (Pryor). Russell is this generation's Tarkington he's a scambler like Ben Rothleisburger but way smarter about it. He's not a runner. For him the R/O is a convenient distraction.

Think nearer to Drew Brees with physical escapability moreso than a true triple threat like Kaepernick or Young.

It really is simple politicking. Harbaugh is trying to get leeway for his quarterback, given he runs any chance he gets. Why wouldn't he? Given he's probably an Olympic level runner like RG3 if they actually focused on it.

Only reason we can handle Kaepernick and RG3 is Pete's belief in speed on defense. The only other option is disciplined assignment football like Baltimore (until Thursday). Point is our defense is expressly built to counter the R/O or Pistol by mere default.

 

[scutterhawk]

Mathews makes a decent point in theory, but the real problem with that strategy is that defensive players are instinctively wired to attack the ball. Can you really expect them to take themselves out of the running play in order make a largely useless hit on the QB? I think this works better in theory than it does in execution. Most guys are going to go after the ball every time.

Not if they're instructed to kill the read option, and stifle one of the Offenses facets.
It's way easier to just take out the major play maker with a wicked hit, just ask Hasselbeck about how Defenses can limit any advantages you may have in a game or three.

 

[Seafan]

Nothing new here. Anytime the QB hands off and tries to fake like he's bootlegging he's been able to be hit. When a QB is not passing he doesn't get any special protection. If he runs down field and blocks for a runner like RW has done before he's fresh game for a blow up. But as some have already said most defenders are looking for the ball and not to try to hurt someone. If they are looking to put a hit on the QB they likely are hurting their team.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Mathews makes a decent point in theory, but the real problem with that strategy is that defensive players are instinctively wired to attack the ball. Can you really expect them to take themselves out of the running play in order make a largely useless hit on the QB? I think this works better in theory than it does in execution. Most guys are going to go after the ball every time.

Not if they're instructed to kill the read option, and stifle one of the Offenses facets.
It's way easier to just take out the major play maker with a wicked hit, just ask Hasselbeck about how Defenses can limit any advantages you may have in a game or three.

And Green Bay is pissed at both of us. It didn't help matters that we beat them in a preseason game where they started mixing chocolate into a decent vanilla game.

 

[chris98251]

Also only the stupid QB will set themselves up to be blasted, on the read they hand off or fake and typically make a throw on the run, in the later they would be protected even with the fake because they are passing. The QB's will gain a feel for the timing they need to be considered safe, Tarkenton played in a far less protected environment and was fine, they ran a lot of fakes to Foreman and he would drop back and or roll out to throw and was fine.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Exactly. Guess who is the best at throwing on the run among the annointed trinity? I am sure you guys know.

 

[hawk45]

Wow, surprised at how many are saying this won't affect RW. As I interpret the rule it most definitely applies to him, because as has been pointed out, he continues with his fakes long after the ball is handed off. Additionally, the read option is designed to obfuscate who has the ball between the QB and the running back...that's the entire reason it works! So blasting the QB up to a few seconds after the handoff is totally on the menu.

Russell is the best of all young QBs in this poster's opinion of avoiding lethal contact whenever he's in danger, so I expect him to be as safe as it's possible to be, but short of sliding down immediately after the handoff, there's not much he can do if they run the read option. The QB has to present a threat of running before, during, and after the hand-off for the R/O to be worth a darn.

And we may run it less than 10% of the time, but 10% is a huge percentage of plays, really. That, and even if it were less, it has a huge impact on what defenses have to prepare for and what their DEs have to adopt in terms of mindset.

I think our O will continue to evolve this year just like we added the R/O this year, so I don't think this kills us, but it may very well kill the R/O for us or make it so that we run it only a few times a game so we catch the D by surprise and they can't remember to kill our savior.

 

[brimsalabim]

So does the. Mean that the officials have to determine if the at was actually a read option?