Harvin out for 49'ers game

[BigMeach]

The man is injured. Every other day a new post comes up about Harvin and I see some serious hate on a guy who from everything I've seen only wants to help this team win. How can we fault a guy for having an injury? Could you not see it in his eyes in the Vikings game how badly he wanted to be out there on the field.

Do you know what it takes to get to the level of someone as Harvin? How can anyone question his dedication or want. We have him for 6 years, we need to make sure we don't ruin him.

I can't wait till he comes back and blows up and all the haters eat crow.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Percy is not bringing drama to the team. If someone disagrees, link to source?

The only drama I sense is here at .NET.

Percy is the yet fully unopened Christmas present. We pealed back the wrapping., pried back a corner and caught a glimpse and loved what we saw.

The way things are going, that unopened Christmas present may still be under the tree when TC opens next year.

Or, we could have "Christmas in August" if Percy is 100% and is a key contributor during our playoff run.

My sense it will be the latter.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

This is true. But first-round picks are a pivotal piece of the effort to EXTEND our championship run as we enter into the maintenance stage of it. For me, one Super Bowl ring isn't even enough with this team; it deserves at least two, and to be in contention as long as Wilson plays. And if you're going to ask for that, putting our first-round picks to good use is pretty important.

The overwhelming majority of late 1st round picks are nowhere near as good as Percy Harvin. If we are going to label Harvin a bust, we should label Okung a bust too. They are both awesome, highly valuable players that have had tough injury luck.

I'm surprised anyone around here still thinks you should judge FOs by 1st round picks. First of all: small sample size. Second of all, everything after about the 20th pick most years is a glorified 2nd rounder. Third of all, we don't have a sniper GM, we have a shotgun GM. It doesn't matter where he hits, only matters how much he hits.

Oh, and don't forget that GMs boards are 90% the same in the first round. Jerry Jones is one of the better 1st round GMs in the league over the last decade. 'Nuff said.

Tim Ruskell put a ton of stock in hitting in the first two rounds. He'd draft the safest 1st round pick every year then trade up in the 2nd to get the guy he had targeted. Classic sniper GM. Then of course, he'd do jack squat in the later rounds and would often finish drafts with fewer than seven selections. It was actually a pretty arrogant way to do a draft, it really banked on not getting very many picks wrong. We saw how that worked out.

Extending the championship run will have to do with how well Seattle drafts in all rounds, as well as how well they manage free agency and undrafted free agency. The first round area is a very small piece of that pie for Seattle. Very small. Bennett and Avril were each 1st round pick type acquisitions for moderate price tags. McDaniel and McDonald were bargain basement guys. Browner, Giacomini, McQuistan, etc. Compared to managing free agency or the 10-20 players added from the draft process, a 1st round pick is a drop in the bucket.

Also, I think Seattle's 1st round performance is highly under-rated. Okung is a top 3 left tackle when healthy, Thomas is the game's best safety and is probably entering the discussion for the games best defensive back. Carpenter is having a better season than most think, and Irvin had an above average rookie year before converting into a useful outside linebacker. Then you add Harvin to that. Not a lot of teams can say they have done better in the first round since 2010.

Everyone should read this. Is that "sniper vs. shotgun GM" material original? If so, kudos and you should submit this sort of writing at draft time to get published. If not (original), I'm not sure how I've managed to miss that over the years. I'd never heard it put that way. Excellent analogy. Great stuff, man.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

This is true. But first-round picks are a pivotal piece of the effort to EXTEND our championship run as we enter into the maintenance stage of it. For me, one Super Bowl ring isn't even enough with this team; it deserves at least two, and to be in contention as long as Wilson plays. And if you're going to ask for that, putting our first-round picks to good use is pretty important.

The overwhelming majority of late 1st round picks are nowhere near as good as Percy Harvin. If we are going to label Harvin a bust, we should label Okung a bust too. They are both awesome, highly valuable players that have had tough injury luck.

I'm surprised anyone around here still thinks you should judge FOs by 1st round picks. First of all: small sample size. Second of all, everything after about the 20th pick most years is a glorified 2nd rounder. Third of all, we don't have a sniper GM, we have a shotgun GM. It doesn't matter where he hits, only matters how much he hits.

Oh, and don't forget that GMs boards are 90% the same in the first round. Jerry Jones is one of the better 1st round GMs in the league over the last decade. 'Nuff said.

Tim Ruskell put a ton of stock in hitting in the first two rounds. He'd draft the safest 1st round pick every year then trade up in the 2nd to get the guy he had targeted. Classic sniper GM. Then of course, he'd do jack squat in the later rounds and would often finish drafts with fewer than seven selections. It was actually a pretty arrogant way to do a draft, it really banked on not getting very many picks wrong. We saw how that worked out.

Extending the championship run will have to do with how well Seattle drafts in all rounds, as well as how well they manage free agency and undrafted free agency. The first round area is a very small piece of that pie for Seattle. Very small. Bennett and Avril were each 1st round pick type acquisitions for moderate price tags. McDaniel and McDonald were bargain basement guys. Browner, Giacomini, McQuistan, etc. Compared to managing free agency or the 10-20 players added from the draft process, a 1st round pick is a drop in the bucket.

Also, I think Seattle's 1st round performance is highly under-rated. Okung is a top 3 left tackle when healthy, Thomas is the game's best safety and is probably entering the discussion for the games best defensive back. Carpenter is having a better season than most think, and Irvin had an above average rookie year before converting into a useful outside linebacker. Then you add Harvin to that. Not a lot of teams can say they have done better in the first round since 2010.

Everyone should read this. Is that "sniper vs. shotgun GM" material original? If so, kudos and you should submit this sort of writing at draft time to get published. If not (original), I'm not sure how I've managed to miss that over the years. I'd never heard it put that way. Excellent analogy. Great stuff, man.

As usual.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Here's how I see it. Harvin pushed as hard as he could to get back quickly. He is obviously mostly healthy unless you think he's capable of that 58 yd return while being very injured, in which case I can't wait to see him healthy. There obviously was some soreness after the game. How severe it is, I don't know. I think PC/JS decided they had seen enough. He was healthy enough to be a major factor but still needed a bit more rehab. I think they will keep him out until the playoffs and then he will play all 3 games including our Super Bowl victory. Upon which we will start these threads again but instead about what a great trade Harvin was.

 

[captSE]

The Vikings always kick our ass when we are trading or trying to keep players......seems like.

 

[hawk45]

This is true. But first-round picks are a pivotal piece of the effort to EXTEND our championship run as we enter into the maintenance stage of it. For me, one Super Bowl ring isn't even enough with this team; it deserves at least two, and to be in contention as long as Wilson plays. And if you're going to ask for that, putting our first-round picks to good use is pretty important.

The overwhelming majority of late 1st round picks are nowhere near as good as Percy Harvin. If we are going to label Harvin a bust, we should label Okung a bust too. They are both awesome, highly valuable players that have had tough injury luck.

I'm surprised anyone around here still thinks you should judge FOs by 1st round picks. First of all: small sample size. Second of all, everything after about the 20th pick most years is a glorified 2nd rounder. Third of all, we don't have a sniper GM, we have a shotgun GM. It doesn't matter where he hits, only matters how much he hits.

Oh, and don't forget that GMs boards are 90% the same in the first round. Jerry Jones is one of the better 1st round GMs in the league over the last decade. 'Nuff said.

Tim Ruskell put a ton of stock in hitting in the first two rounds. He'd draft the safest 1st round pick every year then trade up in the 2nd to get the guy he had targeted. Classic sniper GM. Then of course, he'd do jack squat in the later rounds and would often finish drafts with fewer than seven selections. It was actually a pretty arrogant way to do a draft, it really banked on not getting very many picks wrong. We saw how that worked out.

Extending the championship run will have to do with how well Seattle drafts in all rounds, as well as how well they manage free agency and undrafted free agency. The first round area is a very small piece of that pie for Seattle. Very small. Bennett and Avril were each 1st round pick type acquisitions for moderate price tags. McDaniel and McDonald were bargain basement guys. Browner, Giacomini, McQuistan, etc. Compared to managing free agency or the 10-20 players added from the draft process, a 1st round pick is a drop in the bucket.

Also, I think Seattle's 1st round performance is highly under-rated. Okung is a top 3 left tackle when healthy, Thomas is the game's best safety and is probably entering the discussion for the games best defensive back. Carpenter is having a better season than most think, and Irvin had an above average rookie year before converting into a useful outside linebacker. Then you add Harvin to that. Not a lot of teams can say they have done better in the first round since 2010.

If your GM is a wizard like Schneider who can pull pro-bowler after pro-bowler out of the late rounds when combined with a coach who knows perfectly the type of guys who fit the schemes, then you can say the first round is less important.

For other GMs the 1st round is important. Holmgren, despite not being JS, managed to put together a SB team. He did have a few hits outside the 1st round that were high-impact (Jackson, Lucas, Bernard, Hamlin) lthough these were in rounds 2,3,4 so nothing like Schneid pulling guys out of UDFA and round 6. So for Holmgren it was critical the 1st rounders pan out. Alexander, Tubbs (at times), Trufant, Hutchinson, Stevens, those were the pro-bowlers or near pro-bowlers on the team for the most part. The first round is where you have the best shot at pro-bowlers if you're a mere mortal GM, so it matters a lot what you do in that round.

Robinson, Lamar King, McIntosh - Holmgren's first round misses - really hurt precisely because he couldn't pull a pro-bowler out of the 6th round.

The "shotgun" GM approach sounds great in theory but can only be employed by a very small minority of GMs capable of finding starter and better talent all through the draft. Sure those GMs look great, but that doesn't mean everyone can just decide to be a "shotgun" GM. Those who lack that ability had better hope they hit in the 1st round often, because that is the path to building a good team for the lesser mortal GMs out there.

Evaluating based (heavily) on first round performance then, for most GMs, is still a pretty valid approach. With much respect, I don't believe you look at a once-in-a-lifetime combo of JS/PC and decide that the metric doesn't apply in general because it doesn't apply well to them. A guy like Ruskell who is balls at evaluating talent is honestly best-served by a strategy employing fewer, higher-round draft picks than he would be with a different strategy. Ruskell didn't suck because he used this strategy. He sucked becasue he was a balls talent evaluator and even picking high was no insurance against him derping it up. He had no chance in the later rounds because he was Tim Ruskell.

I agree though that the current FO has had what I consider good success in the first round. ET was a defense-making pick and not necessarily a slam-dunk obvious pick. Okung is injury suck but when he's out there he's as-billed. Percy is the same although he'll obviously need to see the field at least as much and I think more than Okung to avoid a legit bust label. Carpenter is a rubbish first round pick, even low first round, but that one smells like Cable to me.

 

[amill87]

just define what period of time you are referencing in your evaluation. Its not too soon to debate his impact to date.

I'm confused why people are having buyers regret. While he hasn't done much yet, it doesn't mean he won't in (near) future.

I just want to hear from the other side what exactly Harvin has cost us this year? Is 11-1 not good enough and we would be 12-0 with him? That's just greedy. Is there some players we know would've contributed in the first and seventh rounds? Our star second round pick has only seen the field in blowouts. Is there some big name FA we could have signed instead? As far as the Gordon trade, we don't know if he was available when we got Harvin and let's be real, Gordon is amazing but he ain't no Harvin.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I wonder what the "Percy is a bust!" crowd will have to say when he has a key catch in the playoffs to decide a game.

 

[Nog]

Welcome to .net. Your english is just fine, though I did read it with a caricature french accent.

I do have a strong accent! :mrgreen: Thanks for welcoming me...

I appreciate your contribution here. Excellent first post and, yes, welcome.

Thanks. I'm a long time Seahawks fan, and the 12th is huge among football fan in France

 

[HawkWow]

The Vikings always kick our ass when we are trading or trying to keep players......seems like.

Goodell needs to remind Zygi Wilf he's not allowed to own 2 NFL franchises.

 

[captSE]

Haha...

 

[HawkWow]

Everybody worries so much about doing business with the Pats, and rightfully so, but Wilf makes Kraft look like Santa.

 

[chris98251]

Drafting anyone in the first round and have them get hurt would make the same impact on a team. Look at Harvin as a pick that got hurt in training camp, he just happens to be seasoned and a player that can explode on the scene in the playoffs with a bit of prayer.

 

[dontbelikethat]

Drafting anyone in the first round and have them get hurt would make the same impact on a team. Look at Harvin as a pick that got hurt in training camp, he just happens to be seasoned and a player that can explode on the scene in the playoffs with a bit of prayer.

I get what you're saying and I'm still glad we have Harvin, but the biggest issue is that an injured 1st rounder isn't goona cost 10mil a year on the payroll.

 

[hawks4thewin]

Percy is not bringing drama to the team. If someone disagrees, link to source?

The only drama I sense is here at .NET.

Percy is the yet fully unopened Christmas present. We pealed back the wrapping., pried back a corner and caught a glimpse and loved what we saw.

The way things are going, that unopened Christmas present may still be under the tree when TC opens next year.

Or, we could have "Christmas in August" if Percy is 100% and is a key contributor during our playoff run.

My sense it will be the latter.

I am going to assume you are referring to my post about him bringing us drama and if so, you are 100% correct I was referring to drama here

It is to early to decide if he was a bust. For sure he is elite talent. But as fans we get to have our opinions, and they are all equal on here on .net

 

[warden]

No game film on how we plan on using him, there is this big surprise waiting for our playoff opponents. They will be thinking, damn we were not prepared for that

 

[amill87]

Drafting anyone in the first round and have them get hurt would make the same impact on a team. Look at Harvin as a pick that got hurt in training camp, he just happens to be seasoned and a player that can explode on the scene in the playoffs with a bit of prayer.

I get what you're saying and I'm still glad we have Harvin, but the biggest issue is that an injured 1st rounder isn't goona cost 10mil a year on the payroll.

Care to elaborate what we should've sent the money on instead that would've helped us? The big name guys cannot have contract extensions yet

 

[ImTheScientist]

I wonder what the "Percy is a bust!" crowd will have to say when he has a key catch in the playoffs to decide a game.

Answer: "what are you talking about, I have always loved Percy".

 

[falcongoggles]

Hi, this is my first post in this forum. I just wanted to let you know that I'm french; therefore, I might make some grammatical mistakes or misspelling. Sorry in advance.

Concerning Harvin, I just wanted to say that it is too early to make judgment call about this. In fact, we don't really know what it is going on. Personally, I don't understand your skeptical point of views. I mean that was a trade to make. We didn't have any playmaker with Harvin's caliber.

No offense to Tate or Baldwin, but they are not Percy Harvin. If Harvin is healthy he is all-pro player no doubt about it. I remembered that Marshawn Lynch had such hard time at his debut, then he made this run against the Saints, and we sort of made this deal valuable. If Harvin comes back healthy for the playoff and have a direct impact on the team you guys would probably change your mind.

Great job with your English, thank you for the post