Good Explanation As To Why It Was Time

[Maelstrom787]

Norton Jr. was fired after the 2021 season. That season the Seahawks were #17 in rushing defense by yardage, #31 in passing defense by yardage, and #28 in overall defense by yardage. Opponents moved the ball down the field almost at will. The Seahawks were #31 in 1st downs conceded, 1 ahead of last place. The Seahawks defense was extremely tough in the red zone. Got to give them credit for that. #11-T in points conceded.

Seattle only allowed so many rushing yards that year because they faced so many rushing attempts. They allowed a 2nd-best 3.8 YPC in 2021.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Depends entirely on which coordinators and why.

I'm tired of acting like two 9-8 years after trading Russ is some sort of tortuous hell. It's petulant.

The man was winning more games than he was losing while simultaneously making grown men write like Sylvia Plath on the internet about how their existence as a fan is a cruel and horrid fate. Anyone who can win that much at their floor deserves their vision heard for the ceiling. Not really that unreasonable to anyone willing to step back for a moment and look at the full picture.

We're just never going to see eye to eye Mael. In my opinion, it doesn't matter who the coordinators are because Pete is just going to trump whatever they want to do anyways. No matter how things suppossedly changed through the years, it sure did seem like they stayed the same.

.500 ball isn't tortuous hell, but it ain't some wonderful paradise either. The 9-8 records were meaningless in his departure anyways.

The man won games in the regular season Mael, while being nothing more than fodder in the post season. At some point ownership, players, fans, etc,,,want to see some light at the end of the tunnel. Pete was never going to reach that light. The full picture is that the Pete led Seahawks haven't been serious contenders for the prize for several years now and it was past time for him to be let go.

There's a reason people were writing on the internet about how cruel it was to be a fan,,,,there was nothing changing and no chance at winning it all. The plan going forward with Carroll was bleak.

 

[flv2]

Seattle only allowed so many rushing yards that year because they faced so many rushing attempts. They allowed a 2nd-best 3.8 YPC in 2021.

If your opponent needs 3 yards and they get 3 yards it's a win for them. It doesn't matter if your defensive average looks good. It only matters if you stop them achieving their objective. Opponents got the lead and chewed up clock time. 4 yards, 4 yards, 3 yards, 1st down. Not good between the 20's, not good on 3rd down, great in the red zone.

Sure, the passing defense was a much bigger problem. It doesn't mean the rushing defense was good.

 

[Maelstrom787]

If your opponent needs 3 yards and they get 3 yards it's a win for them. It doesn't matter if your defensive average looks good. It only matters if you stop them achieving their objective. Opponents got the lead and chewed up clock time. 4 yards, 4 yards, 3 yards, 1st down. Not good between the 20's, not good on 3rd down, great in the red zone.

Sure, the passing defense was a much bigger problem. It doesn't mean the rushing defense was good.

I agree with the premise of what you're saying, but I think the reality is that the 2021 bear front with Al Woods, Poona Ford, an emergent Bryan Mone, etc. was pretty money at defending the run. The film guys agreed.

I'd be interested in compiling some neutral situation data on that 2021 run defense to try to cut out some of the noise of the volume stats.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Hope is a mental construct. Seattle had hope before. Even teams in purgatory improve.

Don't believe me? Ask the John Harbaugh Ravens, who had a worse skid than us for nearly a decade before re-entering contention. Nearly the exact same situation.

Would you say, if Carroll stayed as coach, would this upcoming season be something that is more exciting, than the current new regime going into this season?

Or, are they the same level of excitement for you?

 

[olyfan63]

Would you say, if Carroll stayed as coach, would this upcoming season be something that is more exciting, than the current new regime going into this season?

Or, are they the same level of excitement for you?

Misplaced over-loyalty to underperforming coordinators was a chronic, ongoing Pete problem. That alone could have been what cost him his job. I would have liked to see Pete with good coordinators. But, because Pete is Pete, we didn't get to. A what-if that will forever remain unknown.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Misplaced over-loyalty to underperforming coordinators was a chronic, ongoing Pete problem. That alone could have been what cost him his job. I would have liked to see Pete with good coordinators. But, because Pete is Pete, we didn't get to. A what-if that will forever remain unknown.

PC with good coordinators? Didn’t he pick his own coordinators? Repeatedly?

 

[Ozzy]

As much as I loved Pete and what he brought to our team and us fans, it was quite obvious he was past his expiration date when it came to his stale defensive philosophies/schemes and stubbornness/over-loyalty to coordinators who had no business being in their roles, certainly for as long as some of them were.

If your division rivals know what you are going to do because of your refusal to change your base schemes, that's a problem.

100%

 

[hgwellz12]

I lov

"It’s refreshing getting someone new in here - different coaching style, different playing style."

Wow, that's a real straight up, pernicious, fatal blow of shade right there...

View attachment 66317

I have always loved the word "pernicious" for some reason since like 3rd or 4th grade. It's not used enough.

 

[AROS]

I lov

I have always loved the word "pernicious" for some reason since like 3rd or 4th grade. It's not used enough.

I love words and that's a good one. Sadly, we don't use enough good words in our daily vocabulary. I said "paradigm" once to my neighbor and he made a face like I had a giant spider eating my brains.

 

[jammerhawk]

Perseverance, persistence, pernicious, patience. Then there is my favourite p word. You can guess it.

It has something to do with cats, just what I'm not quite sure.

 

[Scout]

In defense of KNJ the team didn't have a good long term plan for signing pass rushers long term. That wasn't conducive to long term success. Trading for Adams didn't help either as that was a huge opportunity cost. It could be argued that KNJ did the best using Adams' traits but what the team needed was more talent in the trenches and not spending high picks and cap space on a situational safety.

I firmly believe if KNJ was the DC last year the defense would have finished better overall.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

It's really, really hard to not immediately click off of that article when it includes "bad run defense" as a carry-over from Ken Norton Jr.

We had been a top-5 defense in yards per carry allowed for 2 years consecutively when Norton was fired.

I hate when articles like this are so comfortable with being so inaccurate. It's exactly how complete falsehoods become accepted narratives in fanbases.

The story is this. They completely tore it down after 2017, and by 2020, the run defense was certifiably elite using Carroll classics like the hybrid Bear front. After Norton was fired and Carroll went away from his greatest hits in an effort to modernize with Hurtt and Desai, it went to shit. That context is very, very important.

That being said, sure. It was time if he wasn't gonna fire Hurtt or Waldron.

It’s a product of the times. No truth value just mount of clicks value. Vapid insincere. Fake. Borderline fraudulent.

 

[LeveeBreak]

Teams like the Rams figured us out a long while ago. It's never a good approach to come at the same team twice a year with the same philosophies....you're going to get your arse handed to you one way or another.

This^^^^

McVay had Pete dialed. Nov 3rd hosting the Rams will be interesting, especially if the hawks are competitive.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Would you say, if Carroll stayed as coach, would this upcoming season be something that is more exciting, than the current new regime going into this season?

Or, are they the same level of excitement for you?

If I had to bet on which team would win more in 2024, probably Carroll.

I love Pete, and he brings an undeniably high floor to a team, so I'd bet on Pete.

But I couldn't rock with those coordinators anymore, and if he didn't want to can them, it was time to move on.
 
I'd be excited regardless. Carroll's teams had a chance to improve, and Macdonald has a chance to be the next NFL young gun. Both had significant downside. Carroll had some stagnation and Mac faces odds that don't favor him taking the league by storm.

 

[strohmin]

Im surprised no one mentioned the lack of discipline or accountability. We had so many dumb drive extending decisions on defense and drive killing decisions on offense that lost us some easily winnable games. Pete never really fixed this and always came up with lame excuses.

 

[Germanhawk7]

#Seahawks Riq Woolen joined Seattle Sports host Bump and Stacy. He had this to describe offensive coordinator Ryan Grubbs' offense:

"Honestly, just know this...you know how much I love to talk? That's because the offense got me speechless. That's how much better it looks and a lot of diversity. Just know that. We got the 3-headed monster. We got some stuff cooking up. It's amazing to see what the offense does at this camp. The strides and improvements as well."

 

[hgwellz12]

#Seahawks Riq Woolen joined Seattle Sports host Bump and Stacy. He had this to describe offensive coordinator Ryan Grubbs' offense:

"Honestly, just know this...you know how much I love to talk? That's because the offense got me speechless. That's how much better it looks and a lot of diversity. Just know that. We got the 3-headed monster. We got some stuff cooking up. It's amazing to see what the offense does at this camp. The strides and improvements as well."

I heard JSN been out there showing his ass!

 

[AROS]

Im surprised no one mentioned the lack of discipline or accountability. We had so many dumb drive extending decisions on defense and drive killing decisions on offense that lost us some easily winnable games. Pete never really fixed this and always came up with lame excuses.

The one thing Holmgren smoked Pete on every day and twice on Sundays was discipline. Say what you want about Holmgren but the man walked and breathed discipline. Pete was way more undisciplined and for all his success, that was massively one area he should have been better at.

He chose players coach and rah rah over discipline and it ultimately cost him in the end IMO.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Pete teams were extremely undisciplined.