Geno Trade Value?

WarHawks

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Geno as our starting QB is NOT winning us a SB next year, at best we make the playoffs, getting our teeth kicked in the 1st round, then drafting around #20? Then still stuck with Geno because you have no chance to move up again for a QBOTF? Geno is a scab we need to rip off, and move on!
^THIS. Keeping Geno means a ceiling of more mediocrity at the expense of short term qbotf acquisition and development. That does no one any favors, including Geno. He would probably rather be on a team that is willing to let him be The Man anyway. Just rip the band aid off.
 
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bigcc

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Reading between the lines a bit here, but this really doesn't sound like they're prioritizing overhauling the QB position immediately. Sounds like they're trying to support it better.

I don't think there's much to glean here regarding qb.

Generic football answer, and even then, to me it sounds like he's talking about giving whatever qb tools (so probably not things like cutting lockett like I've seen suggested).

Not really a comment on qb, in my opinion.
 

Maelstrom787

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I don't think there's much to glean here regarding qb.

Generic football answer, and even then, to me it sounds like he's talking about giving whatever qb tools (so probably not things like cutting lockett like I've seen suggested).

Not really a comment on qb, in my opinion.
It may be a stretch, but I do think this hints towards holding onto the incumbent starter for now and focusing on tightening the supporting cast.

Generic enough that it cannot be said for sure, though. Definitely.
 

SoulfishHawk

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It's def. a subject where you can see both sides of it. Macdonald might want HIS guy. But at the same time, I still think Geno would be a hell of a mentor to the next guy. IF they get him in the draft. And the QB's coming out? That's another discussion.
 

Hawknight

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It's def. a subject where you can see both sides of it. Macdonald might want HIS guy. But at the same time, I still think Geno would be a hell of a mentor to the next guy. IF they get him in the draft. And the QB's coming out? That's another discussion.
I also believe IF we retain Geno through this Friday, we can still cut him Post June 1 and save even more money. I believe I read that somewhere and/or heard it just recently. Any cap guru's out there who can verify this info? So, if we keep Geno and we draft someone who both MM and Grubbs both like, they can cut Geno if they feel comfortable with a QB (if they draft a QB that is, anything can happen).
 

WarHawks

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It does seem like they should be able to see how the draft plays out before they have to decide whether to cut a qb or not. Doesn't seem fair to penalize a team that isn't willing to make that decision now.
 

Parallax

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I also believe IF we retain Geno through this Friday, we can still cut him Post June 1 and save even more money. I believe I read that somewhere and/or heard it just recently. Any cap guru's out there who can verify this info? So, if we keep Geno and we draft someone who both MM and Grubbs both like, they can cut Geno if they feel comfortable with a QB (if they draft a QB that is, anything can happen).
Definitely not a cap guru. Maybe I should steer clear of this. But my understanding is that if we cut him, certain money never comes due but we have to take the cap hit on the entire bonus in 2024, which is my preference. After Thursday, if he's on the roster, he gets a certain amount of guaranteed money. Was it $9.6M? Some significant sum. But if we cut him after a certain date (June 1st?), we can break the cap hit on the bonus over two seasons. On the other hand, if we trade him, we get trade compensation and the other team takes the unpaid funds off our books and off our cap.

In my view, it's time to move on. So unless we're sure he can be traded, I'd like to cut him before Friday.
 

bigcc

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I also believe IF we retain Geno through this Friday, we can still cut him Post June 1 and save even more money. I believe I read that somewhere and/or heard it just recently. Any cap guru's out there who can verify this info? So, if we keep Geno and we draft someone who both MM and Grubbs both like, they can cut Geno if they feel comfortable with a QB (if they draft a QB that is, anything can happen).

You're.... Partially correct.

Post June 1 cuts let you spread the dead cap hit over 2 years instead of one, saving money in the short term (you still pay him the next year).

However, the reason Friday is important, is because his 12.5 million salary becomes guaranteed. If we cut him Saturday instead of Thursday we waste 12.5 million in cap this year.

He's also due a 9.6 roster bonus on 3/17. Whatever team he's on pays that immediately, or he doesn't get it if not on a team.

Post June 1 cuts are primarily for guys who have a lot of time left (3+ years), or that don't have contract stipulations like geno has (contract becoming guaranteed 2/16, roster bonuse 3/17)
 

Hawknight

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You're.... Partially correct.

Post June 1 cuts let you spread the dead cap hit over 2 years instead of one, saving money in the short term (you still pay him the next year).

However, the reason Friday is important, is because his 12.5 million salary becomes guaranteed. If we cut him Saturday instead of Thursday we waste 12.5 million in cap this year.

He's also due a 9.6 roster bonus on 3/17. Whatever team he's on pays that immediately, or he doesn't get it if not on a team.

Post June 1 cuts are primarily for guys who have a lot of time left (3+ years), or that don't have contract stipulations like geno has (contract becoming guaranteed 2/16, roster bonuse 3/17)
Appreciate the clarification!
 

bigcc

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It does seem like they should be able to see how the draft plays out before they have to decide whether to cut a qb or not. Doesn't seem fair to penalize a team that isn't willing to make that decision now.
It's not a penalty.

Geno took less money so he has these kind of protections. (along with stat/team win bonus incentives)

He didn't want to be left high and dry this summer, getting cut if a rookie qb looked good after the free agency rush when other teams are set.

It's actually the definition of fair lol, both sides get a win in negotiations, just in different ways
 

Titus Pullo

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I doubt any team in the league will be inquiring about Geno this year as far as a trade.
If any team picks him up, it will be after he's cut with no residual contract money intact.

Lock is an unrestricted free agent and will have plenty of options.
I don't see why he would stay. What advantage would he have by staying?
I mean, half the posters on this board hate him and if Geno is cut in favor of Lock, even more will hate him.
If he's smart, he will take advantage of being a free agent and his stock being up after the Philly game.
 

12forlife

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Is there a source on the "couldn't run the full playbook" claim? I don't really see any indication that he was unable to run the scheme. In fact, he did his best work in year 2 of Waldron's tenure with an obviously overhauled offensive approach after ridding ourselves of Wilson.

Moreover, Grubb's playcalling in college and his elevation of Penix seems highly synergistic with Geno's playstyle. Geno is an accurate passer who can get the ball out mostly on-time and Grubb dialed up a lot of single-read hitters that Penix feasted on. I don't see how this doesn't mesh well with Geno Smith.

We shouldn't tear down every facet of the team for a bit of cap space, especially not a quarterback who has mostly overperformed his very reasonable contract.

While doubts may exist about Geno's capability in terms of "putting the team on his back" and carrying them to the big game, they should still be endeavoring to start strong and be as competitive as possible in year 1. Losing begets losing, and winning begets winning.

So yeah, try to find the QB of tomorrow and all that jazz obviously given Geno's age and non-viability as an option for the long haul, but I see very little reason to tear everything down and be worse in the name of "rebuilding."

Cheaper vets will be cheaper because they're significantly worse than Geno Smith. This includes Drew Lock.
I my question/point is why do you want to delay the inevitable? You agree Geno is not our future, so why should we allow Geno technically hold the Hawks back from progressing? I don't think we should "tank" next year. I just don't get why we should slow things down with Geno for one year. I'll have to bird dog the sources that have said our Offense was vanilla due to Geno's capabilities. Man he lit up the pro bowl! Those 3 interceptions were sweet, way to represent! lol
 

GemCity

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Pretty torn on this. Valid points from both sides of the debate.

What we don’t know is if JS loves a guy enough to gamble..or has a rabbit foot in his pocket and nabs the best kept secret in the mid rounds.

I don’t see us moving away from Geno this year so, the 16th/17th will likely come and go.

I also no longer believe that tells the full story unless, they cut him.

This topic will be in limbo until the draft ends.
 

Titus Pullo

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Is there a source on the "couldn't run the full playbook" claim? I don't really see any indication that he was unable to run the scheme. In fact, he did his best work in year 2 of Waldron's tenure with an obviously overhauled offensive approach after ridding ourselves of Wilson.
The question you should be asking is:
Did Waldron have a more complicated scheme in his bag that he did not implement?
 

bigcc

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I my question/point is why do you want to delay the inevitable? You agree Geno is not our future, so why should we allow Geno technically hold the Hawks back from progressing? I don't think we should "tank" next year. I just don't get why we should slow things down with Geno for one year. I'll have to bird dog the sources that have said our Offense was vanilla due to Geno's capabilities. Man he lit up the pro bowl! Those 3 interceptions were sweet, way to represent! lol
I'm not as anti-geno as you are, he's been a pleasant surprise as I thought he was going to be garbage, but he's been slightly above average which I admittedly didn't think was possible.

You're right that we can't progress with him though, if we keep geno we're just delaying the regression.

If geno were 26 this is an entirely different discussion and anyone talking about cutting him would be a lunatic, but he'll be 34 this year, and we aren't going to make a championship run before his contract ends with him as qb.

EDIT: I don't like the idea of tanking either, change at qb doesn't imply everyone is just coasting this year
 

bigcc

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Pretty torn on this. Valid points from both sides of the debate.

What we don’t know is if JS loves a guy enough to gamble..or has a rabbit foot in his pocket and nabs the best kept secret in the mid rounds.

I don’t see us moving away from Geno this year so, the 16th/17th will likely come and go.

I also no longer believe that tells the full story unless, they cut him.

This topic will be in limbo until the draft ends.
Not really....

2/16 is the last day to cut geno, and with his roster bonus on 3/17 trading him after that date saves only roughly 12.5.

Also worth mentioning that a lot of talent in free agency, including our guys are likely to be signed by the end of the draft,making the money less valuable then.

I find it very, very difficult to believe he'll be traded after 3/17, and difficult to believe he'll be traded at all.

People need to stop thinking about his talent level and look at the specifics of his contract, which are very unusual,particularly when it comes to the payouts.
 

GemCity

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Not really....

2/16 is the last day to cut geno, and with his roster bonus on 3/17 trading him after that date saves only roughly 12.5.

Also worth mentioning that a lot of talent in free agency, including our guys are likely to be signed by the end of the draft,making the money less valuable then.

I find it very, very difficult to believe he'll be traded after 3/17, and difficult to believe he'll be traded at all.

People need to stop thinking about his talent level and look at the specifics of his contract, which are very unusual,particularly when it comes to the payouts.
Not really what? The topic being in limbo? With the timing of the coaching staff hiring, our draft positioning, etc…who knows what will happen.

I understand the implications date wise but, there’s a lot of dynamics in play.

The topic has expanded a bit…it’s no longer a one dimensional question.
 

chris98251

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The question you should be asking is:
Did Waldron have a more complicated scheme in his bag that he did not implement?
Yes he did, Geno ran it well and then Pete pulled the plug, the Motion offense they ran against the Colts did two things, confused the defense sure, but also gave reads and keys to the QB and WR what the defenses intent was.

We all but seen the motion offense abandoned, not because Geno could not run it but I think due to routes ran out of it, crosses, curls, and seam routes we rarely seen most the times.
 

bigcc

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Not really what?
Sorry that was poorly placed.

The topic isn't really in limbo until the end of the draft.

Him being cut discussion ends 2/16
Him being traded discussion realistically ends 3/17. Over a month before the draft starts, for the reasons I mentioned.
 
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