Geno or Hasselbeck?

[keasley45]

How would his numbers even be close when he would have way less talent at the receiver areas, he'd be throwing a lot less, and he'd actually get mauled by the players hitting him in that day and age?

He gets mauled now. Its not like D Jax and Bobby Engram were slouches. They were some of the most underrated receivers in the league.

And Hass put up those numbers with far less arm talent. With the skill Geno has throwung the ball, if we had ANY semblance of a running game, he'd be more efficient and have more explosive plays off of play action.

You do know he leads the league now in passing yards and our offense ranks in the 20s in explosive plays, right? Thats because we get no benefit from a running game and the PA threat it creates. Geno is dropping back like a sitting duck and dinking and dunking his way downfield against defenses who pretty much can guess whats coming.dont wanna take my word for it? Listen to the latest segment of Seattle Overload with Matty Brown and Griff and they pretty clearly layout how bad this offense is at creating leverage and keeping defenses off balance.

And...

When you are standing behind an offensive line that gives you half hour to throw vs having a rush in your face in 1.7 seconds, the difference in QB success is huge. Add to that a league best rusbing attack.

This is where the argument v Geno seems silly. He puts up the numbers he has with horrible blocking, a questionable offense and little run support.

The simplest deductive reasoning woukd say that a qb with deficiencies in key areas who performs at a 7/10 level will perform better with a unit without thise deficiencies.

As to his weapons at receiver... if the qb cant get to his drop or constantly has pressure, it negates the weapons. It doesnt matter if your wr is wide open 25 yards down field if your qb is on his ass or rather than hitting his spot and releasing the ball on time he's running around for his life.
And if the offense does nothing to gain a schematic advantage against a defense at the most fundamental level, the qb is going to struggle.

 

[Hollandhawk]

This is where the argument v Geno seems silly. He puts up the numbers he has with horrible blocking, a questionable offense and little run support.

This almost sounds like Sam Howell with the commanders, although his receivers weren't as good. Is he better than Hass too?

 

[keasley45]

This almost sounds like Sam Howell with the commanders, although his receivers weren't as good. Is he better than Hass too?

Lool at Howell's stats as a starter, watch 5 minutes of film from him and you tell me.

 

[Ozzy]

Lool at Howell's stats as a starter, watch 5 minutes of film from him and you tell me.

Howell was put in an impossible situation and actually flashed some really good stuff on film. Not saying he’s a star but he’s got talent and could be really good.

 

[Hollandhawk]

Howell was put in an impossible situation and actually flashed some really good stuff on film. Not saying he’s a star but he’s got talent and could be really good.

Yes, and he hasn't been in the league for 12 years. There is a lot of room for (potential) growth there.

 

[pittpnthrs]

He gets mauled now. Its not like D Jax and Bobby Engram were slouches. They were some of the most underrated receivers in the league.

And Hass put up those numbers with far less arm talent. With the skill Geno has throwung the ball, if we had ANY semblance of a running game, he'd be more efficient and have more explosive plays off of play action.

You do know he leads the league now in passing yards and our offense ranks in the 20s in explosive plays, right? Thats because we get no benefit from a running game and the PA threat it creates. Geno is dropping back like a sitting duck and dinking and dunking his way downfield against defenses who pretty much can guess whats coming.dont wanna take my word for it? Listen to the latest segment of Seattle Overload with Matty Brown and Griff and they pretty clearly layout how bad this offense is at creating leverage and keeping defenses off balance.

And...

When you are standing behind an offensive line that gives you half hour to throw vs having a rush in your face in 1.7 seconds, the difference in QB success is huge. Add to that a league best rusbing attack.

This is where the argument v Geno seems silly. He puts up the numbers he has with horrible blocking, a questionable offense and little run support.

The simplest deductive reasoning woukd say that a qb with deficiencies in key areas who performs at a 7/10 level will perform better with a unit without thise deficiencies.

As to his weapons at receiver... if the qb cant get to his drop or constantly has pressure, it negates the weapons. It doesnt matter if your wr is wide open 25 yards down field if your qb is on his ass or rather than hitting his spot and releasing the ball on time he's running around for his life.
And if the offense does nothing to gain a schematic advantage against a defense at the most fundamental level, the qb is going to struggle.

With that many attempts, I would expect any QB to lead the league in yardage or be right in the conversation. I don't know why the league leading yardage is such a triumphant deal to you. He also leads the league in interceptions, but you never seem to bring that up or if it is, you preach how it's never his fault somehow.

He's an average QB with an average career. Sometimes people just need to accept that.

 

[Chukarhawk]

This. Its easy to sit back and judge Geno for the errors he has made, despite the fact that for three years he has been almost our entire offense.

And he has had the one of the worst o-lines and worst running games backing him up.

Hass?

The dude played with one of the best o-lines in league history and for sure in ours.

And he had S Alexander and Mac Strong behind him.

His best year - the year we went to the SB, looks only slightly better than Geno's 'regression' year last year. And that was with Hutch, Jones, Toebeck and crew, plus Alexander and the 7th ranked scoring defense.

Love Hass, but no way. He'd curle up and crumble to the ground.

Or he would throw a bad pick - he was only 1.4 to 1, TD to INT for his career.

Hass was also smart enough to get rid of the ball quickly and had much better pocket awareness Hass could actually feel pressure. 2 things would have happened with Geno and Holmgren. Holmy would have either benched him permanently or made him a much better QB. Holmy was a great QB coach. Geno is playing for a contract next year it will be interesting to see if he can clean up the picks or if he will continue to lead the league.

 

[keasley45]

With that many attempts, I would expect any QB to lead the league in yardage or be right in the conversation. I don't know why the league leading yardage is such a triumphant deal to you. He also leads the league in interceptions, but you never seem to bring that up or if it is, you preach how it's never his fault somehow.

He's an average QB with an average career. Sometimes people just need to accept that.

Its not. Its just proof he's succeeding in an offense that is poorly conceived and that relies on him entirely to win.

 

[keasley45]

Hass was also smart enough to get rid of the ball quickly and had much better pocket awareness Hass could actually feel pressure. 2 things would have happened with Geno and Holmgren. Holmy would have either benched him permanently or made him a much better QB. Holmy was a great QB coach. Geno is playing for a contract next year it will be interesting to see if he can clean up the picks or if he will continue to lead the league.

You do know that Geno is among the destb in the league at getting the ball out, right?

Hes also among the most accurate under pressure.

If you're going to hate on Geno, at least do it with the right stats.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He gets mauled now. Its not like D Jax and Bobby Engram were slouches. They were some of the most underrated receivers in the league.

And Hass put up those numbers with far less arm talent. With the skill Geno has throwung the ball, if we had ANY semblance of a running game, he'd be more efficient and have more explosive plays off of play action.

You do know he leads the league now in passing yards and our offense ranks in the 20s in explosive plays, right? Thats because we get no benefit from a running game and the PA threat it creates. Geno is dropping back like a sitting duck and dinking and dunking his way downfield against defenses who pretty much can guess whats coming.dont wanna take my word for it? Listen to the latest segment of Seattle Overload with Matty Brown and Griff and they pretty clearly layout how bad this offense is at creating leverage and keeping defenses off balance.

And...

When you are standing behind an offensive line that gives you half hour to throw vs having a rush in your face in 1.7 seconds, the difference in QB success is huge. Add to that a league best rusbing attack.

This is where the argument v Geno seems silly. He puts up the numbers he has with horrible blocking, a questionable offense and little run support.

The simplest deductive reasoning woukd say that a qb with deficiencies in key areas who performs at a 7/10 level will perform better with a unit without thise deficiencies.

As to his weapons at receiver... if the qb cant get to his drop or constantly has pressure, it negates the weapons. It doesnt matter if your wr is wide open 25 yards down field if your qb is on his ass or rather than hitting his spot and releasing the ball on time he's running around for his life.
And if the offense does nothing to gain a schematic advantage against a defense at the most fundamental level, the qb is going to struggle.

Geno could throw 5 picks and you would say it's Grubb's fault.

 

[Chukarhawk]

You do know that Geno is among the destb in the league at getting the ball out, right?

Hes also among the most accurate under pressure.

If you're going to hate on Geno, at least do it with the right stats.

My observations that Geno takes too many sacks don't equate to "hating on Geno". I never said anything about him being inaccurate under pressure. I'd rather him take a sack than throw a pick, but he takes sacks at really inopportune times that often take us out of field goal range. He's just not good at sensing when the pocket is collapsing. when he does move usually good things happen. Often, he waits way too long to pull it down and run. He's a gifted runner; he needs to use it to his advantage.

 

[keasley45]

My observations that Geno takes too many sacks don't equate to "hating on Geno". I never said anything about him being inaccurate under pressure. I'd rather him take a sack than throw a pick, but he takes sacks at really inopportune times that often take us out of field goal range. He's just not good at sensing when the pocket is collapsing. when he does move usually good things happen. Often, he waits way too long to pull it down and run. He's a gifted runner; he needs to use it to his advantage.

Cant argue that. His sacks drive me nuts.

 

[Spin Doctor]

He gets mauled now. Its not like D Jax and Bobby Engram were slouches. They were some of the most underrated receivers in the league.

And Hass put up those numbers with far less arm talent. With the skill Geno has throwung the ball, if we had ANY semblance of a running game, he'd be more efficient and have more explosive plays off of play action.

You do know he leads the league now in passing yards and our offense ranks in the 20s in explosive plays, right? Thats because we get no benefit from a running game and the PA threat it creates. Geno is dropping back like a sitting duck and dinking and dunking his way downfield against defenses who pretty much can guess whats coming.dont wanna take my word for it? Listen to the latest segment of Seattle Overload with Matty Brown and Griff and they pretty clearly layout how bad this offense is at creating leverage and keeping defenses off balance.

And...

When you are standing behind an offensive line that gives you half hour to throw vs having a rush in your face in 1.7 seconds, the difference in QB success is huge. Add to that a league best rusbing attack.

This is where the argument v Geno seems silly. He puts up the numbers he has with horrible blocking, a questionable offense and little run support.

The simplest deductive reasoning woukd say that a qb with deficiencies in key areas who performs at a 7/10 level will perform better with a unit without thise deficiencies.

As to his weapons at receiver... if the qb cant get to his drop or constantly has pressure, it negates the weapons. It doesnt matter if your wr is wide open 25 yards down field if your qb is on his ass or rather than hitting his spot and releasing the ball on time he's running around for his life.
And if the offense does nothing to gain a schematic advantage against a defense at the most fundamental level, the qb is going to struggle.

In 2007, Matt Hasselbeck was in a similar situation, in a much more hostile environment for offenses. He didn’t have an offensive line and his receivers were Bobby Engram, Branch and Burleson. He put up close to 4000 yards and had close to 30 TDs in his only pass heavy year. In addition to that he only had 12 INTs.

This was before defenseless receiver rules, before rules were put in place to protect the QB. This was an era where the QB almost always lined up under center.

QBs had to make reads quickly and let it fly when you reached the end of the drop. Holmgren was a good QB coach, but his offense was also not the easiest to run. Matt Hasselbeck basically had to be like a second offensive coordinator.

In addition to this, Matt Hasselbeck also only had 3 redzone picks his whole career when he left in 2010. In the era Matt Hasselbeck was in his prime he hovered around the 5-7 best QB in the NFL. He was always very efficient in the redzone, and his audibles were a huge factor.

I’m not so sure Geno would succeed under these conditions. He’s not the field general that Matt Hasselbeck was. Geno seems to second guess himself and sometimes he’s a little late on his throws.

Geno also does not have the same internal clock that Hasselbeck had. He was a master at manipulating the pocket and setting up his blockers.

Hasselbeck may have had a weak arm, but he had many other attributes that most QBs don’t have these days. As a rhythm passer he was top notch. To be fair to Geno many QBs would struggle to play this style from this era. It’s why guys like Brady and Hasselbeck were able to be successful with mediocre arms (though Brady’s improved over time).

 

[Ozzy]

I don’t even think it’s all that close. Has was better for longer stretches of time. This isn’t a knock on Geno it’s just that Hass was better.

 

[keasley45]

Howell was put in an impossible situation and actually flashed some really good stuff on film. Not saying he’s a star but he’s got talent and could be really good.

If Howell's situation was impossible, wasnt Geno's? Their respective teams finished within 1 or 2 spots of eachother in every area they were both putrid.

Run game
Blocking
Defense

 

[fenderbender123]

I've don't understood how people are measuring Geno Smith's leadership ability. Yes he gets angry and yells at players on the sidelines who screw up. This was basically Tom Brady's leadership style.

Hasselbeck was also an angry player. He yelled and screamed a lot.

 

[Ozzy]

If Howell's situation was impossible, wasnt Geno's? Their respective teams finished within 1 or 2 spots of eachother in every area they were both putrid.

Run game
Blocking
Defense

I think Howell was in a much worse situation. Limited offensive skill players and he was a rookie being asked to throw 50 times a game. Geno is a 12 vet and is in a much better situation to deal with it. Our skill guys are miles better too. Howell had zero experience and was thrown to the wolves.

I think Howell did better than a rookie Geno would’ve done in that scenario. I think Howell has a chance to be really good? Who knows but I think he does have some cool traits if he can be coached up.