Geno looked crazy good tonight

[chris98251]

I don't know man when we had one of the worst run offenses in the history of the league and he still put up monster numbers he had to be doing something right? You also don't think Wilson's legs and play making ability didn't move the needle at all for Lynch even though his yards per carry went up half a yard? His best receiver was an undrafted player and no high end draft picks. He had to do something right? I know I'm not changing your mind as you feel Russ was trash and you're entitled to it I just think the idea we won 10 games every year even after the LOB left and you think Russ had absolutely nothing to do with it is crazy talk. To each their own.

Did not say he was trash, said he was limited and the defense and a once in a generation RB made him look good with great guys catching the ball that could get open once he broke from the pocket. He had a great knack of playing street ball when things when unscripted. But, that was also the problem, teams adjusted going wide with DE's and containing to sack from the outside in, teams figured out he was not able to use the middle of the field consistently so giving that to him creating inside out pressure on receivers. Add that we had some of the most basic route trees teams could see what we were doing a lot of the time.

He had flaws that were masked and or covered by a great defense and being able to go off script and succeed. That was the problem, having to go off script because he and the offense could not succeed with called plays for a multitude of reasons. The blame can be spread across many areas, but they were there.

 

[chris98251]

Come on man, claiming everyone who disagrees is essentially stupid is ridiculous.

Comment removed for violating the community guidelines.

 

[Zybot]

Bold prediction. Bo Nix loses in Seattle once again. Geno destroys the Broncos in Week 1 and the Broncos are so impressed they give us Russell Wilson like compensation to trade for him. Can lightning strike twice?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Mason Rudolph leading the Steelers team has literally nothing to do with Geno or the teams offensive production.

Mason Rudolph leading the Steelers does however matter for the defense... which gave up over 450 yards, 202 of which were rushing yards, allowing that Steelers offense 71 plays.

Geno passed for 13 first downs. Over half of his completions were first downs. He threw multiple incredible passes after avoiding pressure. I posted the film of his completions from that game.

Where do you want that extra touchdown to come from? Directly out of his ass? Manifested out of thin air? Because he did about all he could possibly do with his arms and legs in that game, and he had already manifested quite a few plays out of thin air in that contest. Already posted a few of them in this thread.

He posted a fantastic QBR and a great passer rating. He completed 70% of his passes. He gained 314 of the teams 369 yards. He passed or ran for 14 of their 17 first downs.

Mason Rudolph accounted for less than half of the Steelers first downs because they rushed at will. Mason Rudolph only threw 24 times. The Steelers ran it 45 times, which is 4 less plays than the Seattle offense got all game.

It's really easy to say "just throw more touchdowns." It doesn't work that way.

If it's going to be a shootout, a starting QB should be able to win against Mason Rudolph (especially in a must win game). Again, Geno threw 1 TD in the entire game. How about sustaining some drives? They were 3-9 on 3rd down. He lost a fumble too from holding the ball to long that led to more points. There were chances a better QB would have cashed in on.

It's Geno's MO though. Numbers look good, but the wins just don't come with them. Its never his fault though.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Also, lousy performance against the Cardinals?

He threw for the 2 touchdowns you've been whining about needing to see from him, including a perfectly thrown game winner! No turnovers, another fantastic QBR, another passer rating over 100!

This! This is why everyone can credibly say that you will literally never have your mind changed on the topic. You just moved the goalposts on yourself within your own post!

So what now - do you need 3 touchdowns a game? You know, 51 per year? Or will you then blame him for not also playing linebacker and defending the run?

He was 16-28 for 189 yards with a 6yrd average per pass Mael. Against the freaking Cardinals. He was outplayed by Murray.

Credibilty? Your love for Smith is unprecendented. He does no wrong in your eyes.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Also, lousy performance against the Cardinals?

He threw for the 2 touchdowns you've been whining about needing to see from him, including a perfectly thrown game winner! No turnovers, another fantastic QBR, another passer rating over 100!

This! This is why everyone can credibly say that you will literally never have your mind changed on the topic. You just moved the goalposts on yourself within your own post!

So what now - do you need 3 touchdowns a game? You know, 51 per year? Or will you then blame him for not also playing linebacker and defending the run?

Some folks just live in their own reality where everything they say, they believe to be 100% true. It's almost like this other guy I know... Can't seem to remember his name at the moment.

 

[JayhawkMike]

What was the name of the obsessive RW lover that would comment on every single post about RW?

 

[Maelstrom787]

If it's going to be a shootout, a starting QB should be able to win against Mason Rudolph (especially in a must win game). Again, Geno threw 1 TD in the entire game. How about sustaining some drives? They were 3-9 on 3rd down. He lost a fumble too from holding the ball to long that led to more points. There were chances a better QB would have cashed in on.

It's Geno's MO though. Numbers look good, but the wins just don't come with them. Its never his fault though.

"Wins don't come with them"

I mean, there have literally been more of them than there have been losses, but aight. Terrible defense didn't lose any games. Terrible line didn't lose any either. Geno Smith loses all the losses. Good point.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He was 16-28 for 189 yards with a 6yrd average per pass Mael. Against the freaking Cardinals. He was outplayed by Murray.

Credibilty? Your love for Smith is unprecendented. He does no wrong in your eyes.

First off, let's go ahead and straighten this one out right now. He had *6.8* yards per attempt in that game if rounding to nearest whole number. Y'know, .2 under Mahomes mark this past season. .5 more than Joe Burrow. Herbert and Russell Wilson were at 6.9 for the season.

This seems less like a yards per attempt issue and more like an issue of not being calibrated with what a decent YPA would be for a QB in the present day.

How about yards per completion? I see 11.81 for Geno in that game. That's good for sixth in the league if doing that all year (Geno was 11th in actuality).

If you're going to neg a stat randomly, don't falsify the stat to benefit your argument.

Now, moving on - wins are a quarterback stat to you, apparently except when Geno Smith wins. Then the wins don't matter and random statistics are the indicator of QB success.

Welp, since you clearly now agree that wins are not a QB stat, let's dive further into extrapolating those stats from the Cardinals game.

If you spread Geno's stats from that game over a season, you get:

3213 passing yards
476 rushing yards
32 TDs
0 INTs
0 fumbles
17 GWD
17 GW TD passes

Still not good enough, I guess. Would've been the second most touchdown passes in the league in 2023 (which is also why expecting 2 or more passing TDs per game is an ignorant expectation, but I digress)

There have been some weak points made, but this one is by far the weakest and directly contradicts your previous contention of QB wins being a metric of QB aptitude.

 

[Maelstrom787]

If it's going to be a shootout, a starting QB should be able to win against Mason Rudolph (especially in a must win game). Again, Geno threw 1 TD in the entire game. How about sustaining some drives? They were 3-9 on 3rd down. He lost a fumble too from holding the ball to long that led to more points. There were chances a better QB would have cashed in on.

It's Geno's MO though. Numbers look good, but the wins just don't come with them. Its never his fault though.

They were 3-9 on third down, yes.

3 of the failed third down attempts were on 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, and 3rd and 17. This does not matter, as only Geno Smith is capable of squandering such easy conversions. Context is for losers.

First downs don't matter. Only third down conversions matter.

Yeah, this is just ridiculous, man. He had a nearly objectively good performance. You'd know if you cared to watch it back instead of using a box score to paint your own picture (which even the box score does not support).

Yet again, if he had received even a SLIGHT amount of help from his defense, it'd be a different discussion. But, as usual, they got embarrassed and he got blamed.

 

[DarkVictory23]

It's Geno's MO though. Numbers look good, but the wins just don't come with them. Its never his fault though.

Please help me understand your expectations here: In 2023, the Seattle Seahawks defense was ranked 29th in points given up per drive, the 4th worst in the league.

In the past decade, teams with a bottom 4 defense (as measured by average points given up per drive) had an average record of 6-11.

In the past decade, only five teams (out of 40) with a defense that bad even managed to have a winning record--and that includes these Geno Smith led Seahawks.

Only four other QBs in the past decade--Jalen Hurts, Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, and Aaron Rodgers--were able to pull off a winning record with a defense as bad as ours was.

Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees are all QBs who had defenses this bad and none of those guys was able to produce a winning record with their teams, let alone go to the playoffs. Drew Brees went three straight seasons missing the playoffs and going 7-9 with a defense like our 2023 defense. (Would you be happy to describe 'good numbers, but no wins' as Drew Brees' MO as well?)


So, to clarify: Your standard for Geno Smith to prove he is good, is to take a team that should be 6-11, and lead them to a playoff victory--is that the standard?

Because there seems to be some sort of strange disconnect between what you (and some others) seem to expect a 'good' QB can do and what actually happens in the NFL.
Teams with defenses this bad do not go to the playoffs, let alone win playoff games. They don't even have winning records.

Put aside how much love or adoration you think Maelstrom, or I, or anyone else on this board has for Geno Smith and answer me this: Is it actually realistic to hold Geno Smith to a standard that literally only one 1 QB in the past decade (Aaron Rodgers on the 2016 Packers) has managed to pull off?

 

[CallMeADawg]

Please help me understand your expectations here: In 2023, the Seattle Seahawks defense was ranked 29th in points given up per drive, the 4th worst in the league.

In the past decade, teams with a bottom 4 defense (as measured by average points given up per drive) had an average record of 6-11.

In the past decade, only five teams (out of 40) with a defense that bad even managed to have a winning record--and that includes these Geno Smith led Seahawks.

Only four other QBs in the past decade--Jalen Hurts, Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, and Aaron Rodgers--were able to pull off a winning record with a defense as bad as ours was.

Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees are all QBs who had defenses this bad and none of those guys was able to produce a winning record with their teams, let alone go to the playoffs. Drew Brees went three straight seasons missing the playoffs and going 7-9 with a defense like our 2023 defense. (Would you be happy to describe 'good numbers, but no wins' as Drew Brees' MO as well?)


So, to clarify: Your standard for Geno Smith to prove he is good, is to take a team that should be 6-11, and lead them to a playoff victory--is that the standard?

Because there seems to be some sort of strange disconnect between what you (and some others) seem to expect a 'good' QB can do and what actually happens in the NFL.
Teams with defenses this bad do not go to the playoffs, let alone win playoff games. They don't even have winning records.

Put aside how much love or adoration you think Maelstrom, or I, or anyone else on this board has for Geno Smith and answer me this: Is it actually realistic to hold Geno Smith to a standard that literally only one 1 QB in the past decade (Aaron Rodgers on the 2016 Packers) has managed to pull off?

You're fighting a good fight, but the person you are explaining this to, doesn't use facts and data to support their views. Maybe try reformating it into bacon and wind terms. That might work.

 

[pittpnthrs]

"Wins don't come with them"

I mean, there have literally been more of them than there have been losses, but aight. Terrible defense didn't lose any games. Terrible line didn't lose any either. Geno Smith loses all the losses. Good point.

Thank goodness for that extra game during the season. Geno's really padding those win numbers with back to back 9-8 efforts. Impressive.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Welp, since you clearly now agree that wins are not a QB stat, let's dive further into extrapolating those stats from the Cardinals game.

If you spread Geno's stats from that game over a season, you get:

3213 passing yards
476 rushing yards
32 TDs
0 INTs
0 fumbles
17 GWD
17 GW TD passes

Still not good enough, I guess. Would've been the second most touchdown passes in the league in 2023 (which is also why expecting 2 or more passing TDs per game is an ignorant expectation, but I digress)

There have been some weak points made, but this one is by far the weakest and directly contradicts your previous contention of QB wins being a metric of QB aptitude.

Hey do that for Kyler Murray too from the same game. After him, do Mason Rudolph using the Seahawk game as an example for an entire season. Rudolph might have been the best QB to ever play the game.

You see 16-28 for 189 yards as a great performance. I don't.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Please help me understand your expectations here: In 2023, the Seattle Seahawks defense was ranked 29th in points given up per drive, the 4th worst in the league.

In the past decade, teams with a bottom 4 defense (as measured by average points given up per drive) had an average record of 6-11.

In the past decade, only five teams (out of 40) with a defense that bad even managed to have a winning record--and that includes these Geno Smith led Seahawks.

Only four other QBs in the past decade--Jalen Hurts, Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, and Aaron Rodgers--were able to pull off a winning record with a defense as bad as ours was.

Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees are all QBs who had defenses this bad and none of those guys was able to produce a winning record with their teams, let alone go to the playoffs. Drew Brees went three straight seasons missing the playoffs and going 7-9 with a defense like our 2023 defense. (Would you be happy to describe 'good numbers, but no wins' as Drew Brees' MO as well?)


So, to clarify: Your standard for Geno Smith to prove he is good, is to take a team that should be 6-11, and lead them to a playoff victory--is that the standard?

Because there seems to be some sort of strange disconnect between what you (and some others) seem to expect a 'good' QB can do and what actually happens in the NFL.
Teams with defenses this bad do not go to the playoffs, let alone win playoff games. They don't even have winning records.

Put aside how much love or adoration you think Maelstrom, or I, or anyone else on this board has for Geno Smith and answer me this: Is it actually realistic to hold Geno Smith to a standard that literally only one 1 QB in the past decade (Aaron Rodgers on the 2016 Packers) has managed to pull off?

My expectations for Smith is to have 2 more seasons where the team is hovering around the average .500 mark record and to hear all the excuses as to why like the team was rebuilding, or the defense stunk, or the Oline stunk, new coaching staff, etc,,,. It is what it is and he is who he is.

With the weapons Smith has (arguably the best in the league) its realistic to expect better than .500 ball. We're not going to get if from him though.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You're fighting a good fight, but the person you are explaining this to, doesn't use facts and data to support their views. Maybe try reformating it into bacon and wind terms. That might work.

Facts and data show 8-8, 3-10, 9-8, and 8-7 in the wins and loss column for seasons he was the majority starter (and zero post season wins). That's the QB the Seahawks have. Until he can shift those numbers, his regular season stats are meaningless to me. He should have good regular season stats given the weapons he has.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Facts and data show 8-8, 3-10, 9-8, and 8-7 in the wins and loss column for seasons he was the majority starter (and zero post season wins). That's the QB the Seahawks have. Until he can shift those numbers, his regular season stats are meaningless to me. He should have good regular season stats given the weapons he has.

The fact you cannot seem to understand is that the record isn't all Genos fault.

Either you begin understand that, or you'll just sound like you're screaming about problems without actually seeing the forest from the trees.

Literally nothing you have said in this thread is worth reading at all.

 

[DarkVictory23]

My expectations for Smith is to have 2 more seasons where the team is hovering around the average .500 mark record and to hear all the excuses as to why like the team was rebuilding, or the defense stunk, or the Oline stunk, new coaching staff, etc,,,. It is what it is and he is who he is.

With the weapons Smith has (arguably the best in the league) its realistic to expect better than .500 ball. We're not going to get if from him though.

Congratulations, that was an expert level dodge. I applaud your ability to avoid engaging any of the actual points presented.

I looked back an additional 5 years, so another 20 teams, and you know how many more teams with bottom 4 defenses had winning records? 0. No additional teams made the playoffs. No additional teams won playoff games.

This is now a 1-in-60 phenomena at this point and you argue that it's realistic to expect it to happen? Seriously? If I told you I was going to flip a coin, would you say it's 'realistic' to expect it to land on heads 6 times in a row? Because that's the type of probability we are talking about. What definition of 'realistic' are you even using here?

---

You keep falling back on the 'weapons' Geno has, as though none of the other QBs I mentioned who failed to do what you expect Geno to do had weapons.

Matt Ryan, across multiple seasons with defenses this bad, had the likes of Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, Austin Hooper, Devin Hester, and Kyle Pitts--he did not have a winning record any of those seasons.

When Kirk Cousins had a defense as bad as our 2023 defense, he had Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, and Dalvin Cook. He did not have a winning record.

Drew Brees and the Saints, I think, are super illustrative. From 2012 to the 2016 season, Brees and the Saints went 7-9 four out of five seasons. The lone exception, 2013--the only season in that stretch where they had a winning record and went to the playoffs--was the only season their defense wasn't bottom 4. Jimmy Graham was there for most of that time. Mark Ingram was there for most of that time. Drew Brees was there for ALL of that time.

Yet, Drew Brees who you assured us elevated his team, had 4 different seasons with a defense as bad as ours and a did not have a winning season once.

---

Your expectations of what Geno should have done last year are wildly disconnected from reality.

It's not an excuse. I don't need to make excuses for why Drew Brees couldn't win with a bottom 4 defense. I don't need to make an excuse for why Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, or Carson Palmer* couldn't win with a bottom 4 defense. Because nobody should realistically expect ANY QB to win with a bottom 4 defense.


* Yes, in the last 15 years, all of those guys had a bottom 4 defense at least once and NONE of them were able to generate a winning record.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Congratulations, that was an expert level dodge. I applaud your ability to avoid engaging any of the actual points presented.

I looked back an additional 5 years, so another 20 teams, and you know how many more teams with bottom 4 defenses had winning records? 0. No additional teams made the playoffs. No additional teams won playoff games.

This is now a 1-in-60 phenomena at this point and you argue that it's realistic to expect it to happen? Seriously? If I told you I was going to flip a coin, would you say it's 'realistic' to expect it to land on heads 6 times in a row? Because that's the type of probability we are talking about. What definition of 'realistic' are you even using here?

---

You keep falling back on the 'weapons' Geno has, as though none of the other QBs I mentioned who failed to do what you expect Geno to do had weapons.

Matt Ryan, across multiple seasons with defenses this bad, had the likes of Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, Austin Hooper, Devin Hester, and Kyle Pitts--he did not have a winning record any of those seasons.

When Kirk Cousins had a defense as bad as our 2023 defense, he had Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, and Dalvin Cook. He did not have a winning record.

Drew Brees and the Saints, I think, are super illustrative. From 2012 to the 2016 season, Brees and the Saints went 7-9 four out of five seasons. The lone exception, 2013--the only season in that stretch where they had a winning record and went to the playoffs--was the only season their defense wasn't bottom 4. Jimmy Graham was there for most of that time. Mark Ingram was there for most of that time. Drew Brees was there for ALL of that time.

Yet, Drew Brees who you assured us elevated his team, had 4 different seasons with a defense as bad as ours and a did not have a winning season once.

---

Your expectations of what Geno should have done last year are wildly disconnected from reality.

It's not an excuse. I don't need to make excuses for why Drew Brees couldn't win with a bottom 4 defense. I don't need to make an excuse for why Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, or Carson Palmer* couldn't win with a bottom 4 defense. Because nobody should realistically expect ANY QB to win with a bottom 4 defense.


* Yes, in the last 15 years, all of those guys had a bottom 4 defense at least once and NONE of them were able to generate a winning record.

You are just Killin it! Dude is just being a hater.

This season we ain't servin hateraid. Got no time for it. Just enjoy the ride.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Until he can shift those numbers, his regular season stats are meaningless to me.

He was 16-28 for 189 yards with a 6yrd average per pass Mael. Against the freaking Cardinals. He was outplayed by Murray.