Geno’s Back

[12forlife]

Defense Bottom 5 YPC
Defense Bottom 2 Yds
Defense Bottom 2 Rushing TDs
Defense Bottom 11 Passing Yards
Defense Bottom 10 QB Rate
Defense Bottom 8 1st%
Defense Bottom 8 CMP%
Defense Bottom 10 Yds/Att

Offense Bottom 10 in:
Rush yards

You guys are just wrong. Geno isn't the problem. He never has been.

Problem is he isn't helping us either. We saw his ceiling in '22. He just doesn't do anything to tilt the field. This move does nothing to help us unless they find a QB needy team that has their QB go down early in the season, then we may see like a 2nd & change for Geno. Otherwise if this prolongs us from drafting a QB then I am totally not on board with this move?

 

[Rat]

No, it doesn't. You just took what I wrote out of context. Geno won't even be 35 until midway through the 2025 season. The final year of his contract. Hence, "It's not like he will suddenly fall off a cliff before his contract runs out."

I was disputing the part where you said this is an era where QBs can play deep into their 30s. There are very few examples of that being done well. A lot of QBs hit the wall around where Geno is now; hopefully his years as a backup help, but I wouldn't assume that he is incapable of a sudden dropoff.

 

[SonicHawk]

Problem is he isn't helping us either. We saw his ceiling in '22. He just doesn't do anything to tilt the field. This move does nothing to help us unless they find a QB needy team that has their QB go down early in the season, then we may see like a 2nd & change for Geno. Otherwise if this prolongs us from drafting a QB then I am totally not on board with this move?

Crazy to blame Geno for the defense.

Did you just choose to ignore the lack of "bottom 10" offensive stats?

 

[12forlife]

Not defending the D. I'm saying Geno don't tilt the field. 20 td to 14 to is not the D's fault. With the weapons Geno had at his disposal should have had 30+ td. Plus like several of the rookies this year he adds nothing with his legs, which in my opinion is one of the biggest reasons we struggle so bad on 3rd down & the red zone, besides the FACT Geno can't read through full progressions and locks on to WR's.

 

[Hawknight]

Well, by keeping Geno and if he is still the QB next season, JS, MM, and the OC must see something in Geno for now and perhaps give him a better opportunity than with a different direction with the playbook. As I was not, in all honesty, favoring Genos return, I will trust the coaches and see how this plays out going forward. I must admit that I'm excited about possibly drafting our new QB for the excitable future.

 

[knownone]

I was disputing the part where you said this is an era where QBs can play deep into their 30s. There are very few examples of that being done well. A lot of QBs hit the wall around where Geno is now; hopefully his years as a backup help, but I wouldn't assume that he is incapable of a sudden dropoff.

Right, by ignoring the context of the comment, extrapolating to QBs over 35 when Geno is 33, and restricting your analysis to total yards in the past two seasons. Even there, it's not clear to me you are right. A cursory glance at the playoffs has seasons like 2020, where there were 6 starting QBs over 36. In fact, the last decade is filled with age 33+ QBs making deep runs into the playoffs.

 

[keasley45]

You're not seeing the big picture. He's going to be 34. Are we close enough to win a SB next year? the year after? When he's 36?

I also have a hard time with saying he's 13th because PFF said he was as if it's an objectifiable fact. A look at the advanced metrics have him anywhere from 12th-18th and that's with a couple of guys hurt.

At this stage is he capable of a 113 rating and MVP type numbers? I don't think he is. You say "we don't know what he's capable of with a competent defense, running game and a good line. You don't have a second round pick and your cap situation isn't ideal.....how are you going to fix all those issues in one off season?

He's a good QB and I can understand if they want to keep him another year but Macdonald has a 6 year contract and has to think about the future as well and Geno isn't playing into his 40's at an elite level.

You're also framing people's argument in the extreme in order to make them appear stupid. I don't think most on here are saying he is THE PROBLEM. They are saying that thinking long term it's probably best to get your guy of the future.

I am seeing the big picture. I'm pushing back against people thinking that the qb who over the past two years, with a league bottom 5 o line, running game and defense, finished on average as the 11th / 12th best qb in the league shouldn't have so much conversation swirling around him about what he's not, when if anything, he's shown he can be better than what he's been because the offense has been so maligned.

It's like this :

It's like a sprinter - who was never even top 10 in his career and who breaks back on the scene after a long hiatus - all of a sudden is a top 5 runner wearing 5 pound weights around his ankles - and folks claim he is still not good because he never was before he made a comeback... and his splits weren't great in the races he ran.

If he finished 5th with 5 pound weights, where will he finish with no weights and a tailwind?

Just answer this for me. Is it reasonable to assume a QB will play better than he's shown if he's had to overcome league worst protection, run support, and defense?

If your answer is yes, than how much better might said QB be if his o line was top 15, his running game, top 10, and his defense, top 15. Just venture a guess.

Because THATS the question that should be asked. Instead, you are ignoring the 5lb weights and just saying 'yeah, but he will never be fast enough to win anyway'. Well who is in the next 3 years that is SO obviously better equipped that the conversation TODAY needs to revolve around what Geno CANT be?

And his age is the issue ? NOBODY IS SAYING HE NEEDS TO BE THE GUY TO TAKE US INTO THE FUTURE. But to act like his legs are about to fall off because he's about to hit 35 is absurd. QB is a position where cerebral players who accumulate years of knowledge can play well beyond the typical NFL 'expired date'. Especially with the rules as they are today. FCS, Rich Gannon's worthwhile career happened between the age of 34 and 37.
Matt Stafford? Hes 36. Brad Johnson was 34 when he won a SB. And I'm intentionally not picking from the list of the truly greats.

And Geno doesn't have the miles on his arm or his body that other qbs his age might. BTW, at 32, he led the league in deep ball accuracy in 2022. This year, he was still top 10, with worse protection... he was the 3rd most pressure passer in the lleague.Of qbs in the league who are actually good at getting the ball out quickly, he was the most pressured.

There's no smoke. There's no fire.

And you keep referencing stats that place Geno 18th... in what? You're disparaging PFF and they use QBR... which has become the pretty consistent measure these days of overall pperformance.im sure it was referenced in contract talks between John and Geno because John himself has refere ced the stat.

Big Picture? JS sees this team as one that is capable of far more than it showed last year. So much more that he released the entire coaching staff so that he can get leaders better equipped to maximize the potential of the team he's assembled. Geno Smith is part of that unrealized potential. And smart money is on seeing just what the dude can do with a decent supporting cast right now, and if there's no better option that you acquire, next year as well

If John doesn't see him as the 18th best passer in the league, that's good enough for me. I doubt he'd pay the 18th best qb, the 13th highest salary. But he might pay it to the 12th best qb over the last 2 years. Is he not seeing the big picture either?

 

[xray]

If he stays here , it's about as good as the Hawks need this season . He knows what's up with the system . He can still play at a decent level . The Hawks know what they got with Smith .

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Well we will either be the same or worse next year Geno definitely is not getting any better.

 

[Hawknight]

Sources: Seahawks to let Smith collect $12.7M

Quarterback Geno Smith, who has $12.7 million in his contract that becomes fully guaranteed Friday, was informed Thursday that he will remain on the Seahawks' roster through this week, allowing that money to trigger.

www.espn.com

 

[Ozzy]

I am seeing the big picture. I'm pushing back against people thinking that the qb who over the past two years, with a league bottom 5 o line, running game and defense, finished on average as the 11th / 12th best qb in the league shouldn't have so much conversation swirling around him about what he's not, when if anything, he's shown he can be better than what he's been because the offense has been so maligned.

It's like this :

It's like a sprinter - who was never even top 10 in his career and who breaks back on the scene after a long hiatus - all of a sudden is a top 5 runner wearing 5 pound weights around his ankles - and folks claim he is still not good because he never was before he made a comeback... and his splits weren't great in the races he ran.

If he finished 5th with 5 pound weights, where will he finish with no weights and a tailwind?

Just answer this for me. Is it reasonable to assume a QB will play better than he's shown if he's had to overcome league worst protection, run support, and defense?

If your answer is yes, than how much better might said QB be if his o line was top 15, his running game, top 10, and his defense, top 15. Just venture a guess.

Because THATS the question that should be asked. Instead, you are ignoring the 5lb weights and just saying 'yeah, but he will never be fast enough to win anyway'. Well who is in the next 3 years that is SO obviously better equipped that the conversation TODAY needs to revolve around what Geno CANT be?

And his age is the issue ? NOBODY IS SAYING HE NEEDS TO BE THE GUY TO TAKE US INTO THE FUTURE. But to act like his legs are about to fall off because he's about to hit 35 is absurd. QB is a position where cerebral players who accumulate years of knowledge can play well beyond the typical NFL 'expired date'. Especially with the rules as they are today. FCS, Rich Gannon's worthwhile career happened between the age of 34 and 37.
Matt Stafford? Hes 36. Brad Johnson was 34 when he won a SB. And I'm intentionally not picking from the list of the truly greats.

And Geno doesn't have the miles on his arm or his body that other qbs his age might. BTW, at 32, he led the league in deep ball accuracy in 2022. This year, he was still top 10, with worse protection... he was the 3rd most pressure passer in the lleague.Of qbs in the league who are actually good at getting the ball out quickly, he was the most pressured.

There's no smoke. There's no fire.

And you keep referencing stats that place Geno 18th... in what? You're disparaging PFF and they use QBR... which has become the pretty consistent measure these days of overall pperformance.im sure it was referenced in contract talks between John and Geno because John himself has refere ced the stat.

Big Picture? JS sees this team as one that is capable of far more than it showed last year. So much more that he released the entire coaching staff so that he can get leaders better equipped to maximize the potential of the team he's assembled. Geno Smith is part of that unrealized potential. And smart money is on seeing just what the dude can do with a decent supporting cast right now, and if there's no better option that you acquire, next year as well

If John doesn't see him as the 18th best passer in the league, that's good enough for me. I doubt he'd pay the 18th best qb, the 13th highest salary. But he might pay it to the 12th best qb over the last 2 years. Is he not seeing the big picture either?

I already answered all of those questions but I guess I’ll recap it again. Geno is a good QB. I don’t think he’s a top 10 QB under almost any circumstance. I just don’t. You keep asking “what if he has a really good line, Defense and run game” how are we fixing all of that in one year with a terrible cap situation and limited draft capital? I don’t think they can unless Pete was a terrible coach and the team last year was horribly managed and underperformed because of it.

The rankings based on EPA, Rating, QBR and all the other advanced metrics have been beaten to death. PFF is at the top of the range I’ve said multiple times….12-17th. I think he’s about 15th. Is that unreasonable? If 15 is outlandish where do you have him? I think he’s a good middle of the road QB. I also know that doesn’t equate to many playoff wins so I want them to shoot for a top 5-7 guy IF John thinks he can get someone like that. If not roll with Geno, Lock or whoever and build the rest of the roster.

I’m fine with rolling with Geno, I’m just not where you’re at at…..the idea that you have to because he’s elite. Sorry man.

 

[Ozzy]

I’m good if Macdonald, Grubb want to roll with Geno. But I’m also open to, and hope they are too, to go get their guy on a rookie contract like a McCarthy, Penix, Nix, Rattler etc if one falls to them and John is convinced he’s a special player. Passing up a franchise guy when they’re so hard to find because of an aging QB just isn’t smart imo. I trust them that if they don’t see that guy then they take the best player available or trade down to recoup some of the resources they lost.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

Penix, JJ or Nix are all possibilities. Too early to say.

And I think our OC could work with either of those. I’m biased toward JJ but I’m from Michigan. I like Penix other than injury history ans age. And Nix had a great year.

 

[Torc]

My prediction: Geno will be our opening day starter.

Seahawks will not take a QB in the first round, and probably not the second either. Grubb may love Pennix, but he won't be able to convince Schneider to risk a high round pick on a guy who has the high injury risk that he does. I don't see the Seahawks taking him unless he drops to at least the third.

I don't have a good read on how they feel about Drew, but I think he stays a Seahawk unless someone offers him a serious chance to be their starter.

 

[JayhawkMike]

If he stays here , it's about as good as the Hawks need this season . He knows what's up with the system . He can still play at a decent level . The Hawks know what they got with Smith .

Really? What system is that? Waldron is gone and so is PC. Even WE don’t know what system the brand new to the NFL OC will run and Geno already knows???

 

[AK49Hawk]

Given this front office is pretty forthright, what If John said to Geno, we need you now, we are going to draft someone, we would like you to mentor him, Penix and Geno worked out together a lot, if John hints that it could be him if available and having Grubb as the OC I could see this aligning and Geno at his age knowing that his window is getting narrow anyway.

This^

 

[12forlife]

I am seeing the big picture. I'm pushing back against people thinking that the qb who over the past two years, with a league bottom 5 o line, running game and defense, finished on average as the 11th / 12th best qb in the league shouldn't have so much conversation swirling around him about what he's not, when if anything, he's shown he can be better than what he's been because the offense has been so maligned.

It's like this :

It's like a sprinter - who was never even top 10 in his career and who breaks back on the scene after a long hiatus - all of a sudden is a top 5 runner wearing 5 pound weights around his ankles - and folks claim he is still not good because he never was before he made a comeback... and his splits weren't great in the races he ran.

If he finished 5th with 5 pound weights, where will he finish with no weights and a tailwind?

Just answer this for me. Is it reasonable to assume a QB will play better than he's shown if he's had to overcome league worst protection, run support, and defense?

If your answer is yes, than how much better might said QB be if his o line was top 15, his running game, top 10, and his defense, top 15. Just venture a guess.

Because THATS the question that should be asked. Instead, you are ignoring the 5lb weights and just saying 'yeah, but he will never be fast enough to win anyway'. Well who is in the next 3 years that is SO obviously better equipped that the conversation TODAY needs to revolve around what Geno CANT be?

And his age is the issue ? NOBODY IS SAYING HE NEEDS TO BE THE GUY TO TAKE US INTO THE FUTURE. But to act like his legs are about to fall off because he's about to hit 35 is absurd. QB is a position where cerebral players who accumulate years of knowledge can play well beyond the typical NFL 'expired date'. Especially with the rules as they are today. FCS, Rich Gannon's worthwhile career happened between the age of 34 and 37.
Matt Stafford? Hes 36. Brad Johnson was 34 when he won a SB. And I'm intentionally not picking from the list of the truly greats.

And Geno doesn't have the miles on his arm or his body that other qbs his age might. BTW, at 32, he led the league in deep ball accuracy in 2022. This year, he was still top 10, with worse protection... he was the 3rd most pressure passer in the lleague.Of qbs in the league who are actually good at getting the ball out quickly, he was the most pressured.

There's no smoke. There's no fire.

And you keep referencing stats that place Geno 18th... in what? You're disparaging PFF and they use QBR... which has become the pretty consistent measure these days of overall pperformance.im sure it was referenced in contract talks between John and Geno because John himself has refere ced the stat.

Big Picture? JS sees this team as one that is capable of far more than it showed last year. So much more that he released the entire coaching staff so that he can get leaders better equipped to maximize the potential of the team he's assembled. Geno Smith is part of that unrealized potential. And smart money is on seeing just what the dude can do with a decent supporting cast right now, and if there's no better option that you acquire, next year as well

If John doesn't see him as the 18th best passer in the league, that's good enough for me. I doubt he'd pay the 18th best qb, the 13th highest salary. But he might pay it to the 12th best qb over the last 2 years. Is he not seeing the big picture either?

Lots not get started in the whole JS wouldn't over pay for value
Lockett $28 mil for a #3 WR?
Adams $27 mil for a broken safety?
Dissly $10 mil for a inline blocking TE?
Diggs $21 mil for slowing average Saftey?.
To be honest with you I think JS should be on the hot seat aswell, those are absolutely moronic cap hits for what we are getting in return.

 

[rigelian]

We were also two chip shot field goals away from being 8-9, the cap situation is much worse, we mortgaged away high end draft stock for this year and Geno is a year older. I’m torn though because on some levels I don’t think you’re wrong. Geno did finish the year on a high note which is encouraging. I don’t know.

We were also two missed field goals away from being 11 and 6. I honestly think the defense was a far greater concern than Geno. It's pretty amazing that we ended up with a 9 and 8 record with a team that could do nothing against the run.

 

[GemCity]

This^

Yep!

 

[Ozzy]

We were also two missed field goals away from being 11 and 6. I honestly think the defense was a far greater concern than Geno. It's pretty amazing that we ended up with a 9 and 8 record with a team that could do nothing against the run.

I think the defense is a far bigger issue than Geno too. I’d say most people wanting a new QB agree with that as well. But that doesn’t mean you don’t work towards making both groups better.