ESPN piece on Seahawks Wilson breakup

[Vesuve]

....The notorious LJ Collier Draft. Where they watched defensive ends come off the board one after the other, and still took LJ Collier with their first selection because that was their need.

They then spend a 2nd on Marquis Blair. and a year later trade two 1sts, and a 3rd for Jamal Adams, and making him the highest paid safety in the game.

You get the point, the poor moves are well documented at this point, no need to rehash them for the sake of brevity.

Next up ownership. Jodi with an "i" made Pete the King of the Seahawks. He is not questioned, nor held accountable. Paul used to do this, and I wholly believe if Paul were alive and well, Pete, would've been canned a long time ago.

Pete can screw up all he wants. He can be arrogant and continue to run dated schemes that haven't worked for years. (He admitted this this off-season.) He can do whatever including run the team into the ground, and it is never his fault, always someone elses, even though he signs off on everything, and holds final say on anything football related. So technically anything wrong or right with the Seahawks falls at the feet of Pete Carroll. It's been mostly wrong for a long time.

....They blew $60M on JAGS in 2020, and then turned around and mortgaged the farm for Jamal Adams right before the season, claiming they needed more star power. (Pete then on record admitted that they were still trying to figure out how to use him early in the 2021 season. As a baffling side note.)


....Having such a passive owner, and a geriatric Coach/Executive VP of Football Operations is killing the Seahawks. The one hope is JS somehow finds a way to draft another franchise QB. But even in that, they might not develop him or support him properly. So even if they draft the right one, he may not develop given their current setup.

Valid insight from Fade, IMO.

 

[strohmin]

 

[seatownlowdown]

I didn't compare situations. The comparisons were in the post I responded to. The Draft positions of the players selected by the Patriots were #62 and #91. If the Patriots had targeted QBs in the 1st round in back-to-back years only for other teams to select them with top 10 picks then Brady might very well have reacted differently.

I don't blame the Seahawks for looking at alternatives and doing what is best for business from their perspective. I don't think it's fair to absolve the team for doing that and then criticise a player for acting in his own best interests.

Wilson's new deal is $161M for 4 years. That price includes payment for the Broncos buying non-guaranteed team options beyond those 4 years.

You asked where the Seahawks would be if they had traded for Mahomes or Allen. Trading into the top 9 from where the Seahawks were positioned would have cost a lot of Draft capital and/or quality players. Wilson would have been worth more earlier in his career but with his replacement already on the roster and his being unhappy other teams may have viewed it as a buyer's market. The Seahawks may not have been able to get maximum value in a trade. Both Mahomes and Allen were projects coming into the NFL. Neither hit the ground running. Neither may have become elite QBs in Seattle.

"If the Patriots had targeted QBs in the 1st round in back-to-back years only for other teams to select them with top 10 picks then Brady might very well have reacted differently." -- fist of all, wilson is not, nor will ever be near the level of greatness of brady- and i hate having to say that. secondly, i find it odd that players would even need catered to at such an extent, like a qb flipping out over their team looking at drafting other qbs? oh wait, wilson ACTUALLY did flip the f*ck out. and cried about it. the fragility! lol. and that was part of pete's problem, pete catered to wilson and was afraid to challenge wilson. wilson threw out the gameplan every season post 2016. and i don't think john schneider was afraid to make a trade or draft his replacement. i can argue that it was schneider that offered wilson to the brown's for the #1 pick in the 2017 draft.

" Trading into the top 9 from where the Seahawks were positioned would have cost a lot of Draft capital and/or quality players." -- agreed! however, not drafting another talented qb to be our qb1 or to atleast challenge wilson has also gotten us to the geno/lock predicament we are currently in.

"Both Mahomes and Allen were projects coming into the NFL." -- mahomes was picked #10 and allen picked #18 of their respective drafts. so, i'd say "projects" is a reach. if that's the case then all draft qbs are projects, especially outside the 1st-2nd rounds. nobody is polished coming into the league, peyton manning possibly being the outlier. seahawks targeted those 2 players for a reason... they stand out with immense physical tools and college production (look at mahomes college stats, mindblowing). it's safe to say seahawks did their homework. they're the same ones that drafted wilson, after all.

"I don't think it's fair to absolve the team for doing that and then criticise a player for acting in his own best interests." -- i hardly absolve pete carroll and his wrong doings, check out some of my other posts, not sure what you're referring to lol. and maybe it's not "fair" to "criticize" but consider the criticism more of an evaluation of how the seahawks got to this point. newsflash, wilson isn't the selfless saint he portrays to be. he's all about his own interests. he's also in decline. look at these other wilson threads to gather some intel

"with his replacement already on the roster and his being unhappy other teams may have viewed it as a buyer's market" -- pure speculation, i can't see how drafting a young mahomes or allen or whoever automatically lessens the value of wilson

"Both Mahomes and Allen were projects coming into the NFL. Neither hit the ground running. Neither may have become elite QBs in Seattle." -- that's cool, probably untrue, but it's not the point regardless. point is to be proactive and keep looking for the next guy. again, re-read what i posted:

being proactive: it's just a smart business model. the best time to look for a future franchise qb1 is when you already have an adequate qb1... especially if that current qb1 isn't your ideal long-term future. see: rodgers/favre, young/montana, mahomes/smith, etc. our current situation just proved this to be 100% true.

 

[toffee]

Bronco's fade

 

[GemCity]

Tbh, I never quite understood the Russ “hate”. You read what the Average Joe posts here, get into a grudge, and the blinders come on.

The guy who wrote the article absolutely phrased a few things that weren’t in Russ’s favor but, I trust ESPN a bite more than other sites.

The article that confirmed what many have said, the personal stories posted in this thread like Maels Milky Way “experience”, and my view has changed.

What a prick. I’m thankful but 100% happy that we’ve moved on.

I hope Denver craps the bed.

 

[seatownlowdown]

Bronco's fade

somebody get that guy another gin and tonic... he's in for 1 hell of a ride

 

[toffee]

somebody get that guy another gin and tonic... he's in for 1 hell of a ride

gin and tonic? may be, but not sure if he has earned it as he hasn't attempt to change the spelling of the owner's name yet. this gent has something to learn from our fade, he is close but no cigar.

 

[Scorpion05]

One sided hit piece, put out by the team.

I like this excerpt though:

"Schneider later apologized to the Saints and other teams…
…because Drew Lock was the QB Schneider wanted in return."

Way to go Schneids! Could've gotten more picks, but screw that, I must have Drew Lock!

No mentions of the poor roster construction, vapid drafts, the dated coaching, the lackey assistants that can't hold their positions anywhere in the league but on the Seahawks staff. The lack of building properly around the QB. The mismanagement of football operations over the last seven years that led to this dumpster fire.

If you believe Wilson was the problem, you've gotten your wish. But I have a sneaking suspicion the Hawks are going to keep losing under this failed management. While Wilson is going to continue winning with his new team and much better management.

The Seahawks have been getting it mostly wrong for years now. They better be right on this or they will be the laughing stock of the league.

Yea this forum has pretty much become a one sided Russell Wilson hate fest. Where Pete and John are flawless with great character. And Wilson is a fake dishonest devil who has done everything wrong. Pete's coaching is also great, and John is a top 5 GM. Russell Wilson is the true problem with this team.

The article revealed to me that the Seahawks regime treated Wilson in a way that most teams do not. I can't see the Chargers doing this to Herbert, or the Chiefs doing this to Mahomes. Or the Bengals doing this to Joe Burrow. The Seahawks spit in Wilson's face then told him to stop whining about it. When he wanted to lead an offense like any other QB, he was suddenly all about himself and not the team. Herbert, Brady, Allen, Burrow, Carr, Rodgers, Dak, Ryan, and Stafford are all QBs that don't have to beg their coach to let them throw it more than 30 times a game. It is expected. This regime put Russell Wilson in a position to be the bad guy and ask for more.

That is what makes this great. If Wilson and the Broncos are great for years to come, these Russell Wilson hit pieces or hate posts won't matter. Especially if our team becomes a perennial bottom dweller in the division.

 

[Scorpion05]

Russ' camp was pissed because John looked at Mahomes and then Allen. Did Team Brady get pissed over Jacoby Brissett and Jimmy G.? The difference is that Brady just took care of business while, behind the scenes, Russ went into full meltdown mode. This was a good read. It also verifies that some front office folks think that Russ is on the decline and that he is more focused about chasing an MVP than he is on winning ball games.

Brissett was never a serious threat. The Jimmy G issue caused a major rift with Brady. The difference is the owner was on Brady's side.

 

[flv2]

"If the Patriots had targeted QBs in the 1st round in back-to-back years only for other teams to select them with top 10 picks then Brady might very well have reacted differently." -- fist of all, wilson is not, nor will ever be near the level of greatness of brady- and i hate having to say that. secondly, i find it odd that players would even need catered to at such an extent, like a qb flipping out over their team looking at drafting other qbs? oh wait, wilson ACTUALLY did flip the f*ck out. and cried about it. the fragility! lol. and that was part of pete's problem, pete catered to wilson and was afraid to challenge wilson. wilson threw out the gameplan every season post 2016. and i don't think john schneider was afraid to make a trade or draft his replacement. i can argue that it was schneider that offered wilson to the brown's for the #1 pick in the 2017 draft.

" Trading into the top 9 from where the Seahawks were positioned would have cost a lot of Draft capital and/or quality players." -- agreed! however, not drafting another talented qb to be our qb1 or to atleast challenge wilson has also gotten us to the geno/lock predicament we are currently in.

"Both Mahomes and Allen were projects coming into the NFL." -- mahomes was picked #10 and allen picked #18 of their respective drafts. so, i'd say "projects" is a reach. if that's the case then all draft qbs are projects, especially outside the 1st-2nd rounds. nobody is polished coming into the league, peyton manning possibly being the outlier. seahawks targeted those 2 players for a reason... they stand out with immense physical tools and college production (look at mahomes college stats, mindblowing). it's safe to say seahawks did their homework. they're the same ones that drafted wilson, after all.

"I don't think it's fair to absolve the team for doing that and then criticise a player for acting in his own best interests." -- i hardly absolve pete carroll and his wrong doings, check out some of my other posts, not sure what you're referring to lol. and maybe it's not "fair" to "criticize" but consider the criticism more of an evaluation of how the seahawks got to this point. newsflash, wilson isn't the selfless saint he portrays to be. he's all about his own interests. he's also in decline. look at these other wilson threads to gather some intel

"with his replacement already on the roster and his being unhappy other teams may have viewed it as a buyer's market" -- pure speculation, i can't see how drafting a young mahomes or allen or whoever automatically lessens the value of wilson

"Both Mahomes and Allen were projects coming into the NFL. Neither hit the ground running. Neither may have become elite QBs in Seattle." -- that's cool, probably untrue, but it's not the point regardless. point is to be proactive and keep looking for the next guy. again, re-read what i posted:

Lmao. Good luck with that. I will wish you well and move on.

 

[strohmin]

Yea this forum has pretty much become a one sided Russell Wilson hate fest. Where Pete and John are flawless with great character. And Wilson is a fake dishonest devil who has done everything wrong. Pete's coaching is also great, and John is a top 5 GM. Russell Wilson is the true problem with this team.

The article revealed to me that the Seahawks regime treated Wilson in a way that most teams do not. I can't see the Chargers doing this to Herbert, or the Chiefs doing this to Mahomes. Or the Bengals doing this to Joe Burrow. The Seahawks spit in Wilson's face then told him to stop whining about it. When he wanted to lead an offense like any other QB, he was suddenly all about himself and not the team. Herbert, Brady, Allen, Burrow, Carr, Rodgers, Dak, Ryan, and Stafford are all QBs that don't have to beg their coach to let them throw it more than 30 times a game. It is expected. This regime put Russell Wilson in a position to be the bad guy and ask for more.

That is what makes this great. If Wilson and the Broncos are great for years to come, these Russell Wilson hit pieces or hate posts won't matter. Especially if our team becomes a perennial bottom dweller in the division.

I have no problem with Wilson getting mad for not giving him control in decisions. My problem is his constant acting like everything is just peachy and that they are very close to being a great team even when things are obviously bad. If there are problems then tell it like it is or dont say anything at all. I would have respected Russ alot more if he didnt keep lying about how great things are while silently forcing his way out.

As far as us becoming a bottom dweller, I am actually more excited to watch this season than I was the last few years. Geno and lock are not great but I believe they are average QBs that can thrive in Pete's system. I am very curious to see how this season plays out.

 

[Lagartixa]

The key thing to remember, once you're getting into the third-grade game of misspelling the names of others as some sort of cryptic insult (I honestly don't quite get the purpose of misspelling Ms. Allen's first name intentionally) and in the context of the article linked at the top of this thread, is...

There is no "I" in "team," but there's definitely one in "WIlson."

 

[strohmin]

Brissett was never a serious threat. The Jimmy G issue caused a major rift with Brady. The difference is the owner was on Brady's side.

Brady did way more for the patriots than Wilson for the hawks. Brady took team friendly deals and allowed Belicheck to Rip him in front of the entire team. Brady is very well respected by all his teammates. He had also helped win 4 championships by that point with whoever they put at WR and RB. Brady never blew smoke up everyones a** at every press conference. There is no comparison between Wilson and Brady.

 

[strohmin]

It was a clear for a while. This shouldn't be a shock.
Russ wants to be great. He doesn't care as much if the team is great.
This isn't even that uncommon. A few people I knew worked with NFL QBs and shared with me personally that more QBs care about going to the HOF than winning a SB.

The big tell for me was when he set a goal of having a certain % completion rate for the season. You can see where there are a number of in-game moments where throwing the ball incomplete or with lower % could benefit the team while still hurting that goal. It was a weird goal to have, honestly.

BUT He does want to be great. And he is exceptionally talented/skilled. You can ride that to wins. But you need to be adept at handling that. Carroll used to be exceptional at this kind of thing. But his impact wears off over time. (Sort of like Wilson in that respect)
Again, the biggest error in this whole thing was Pete deciding to give the keys to his QB.
Understand why he did it, the NFL is pushing every advantage to the QB. You won't be able to win without a top-tier QB soon enough. Playing and winning the old way won't work.

We had Lynch and the LOB. We WOULD have ridden that to another 2 if not 3 SBs by focusing on that. But instead, we raced to put Wilson in the driver's seat. And he literally warned us, 'the separation is in the preparation'. We knew damned well that as soon as all the extraneous things that tug at a star QB's shirt happened, his production would go down too. Lynch and the LOB wouldn't have lasted forever, but 2-3 more years of them with Wilson would have gotten us 1 or 2 more SBs.
Now, I think Wilson knows this. He might be full of himself but he wants to be great. And that means he needs a coaching structure that facilitates his production, that allows him to prosper. Someone like a Reid, instead of a Carroll.

Wilson, in the right hands, is a HOF talent even now. He throws well on the run, has incredible accuracy on long passes, great ability to diagnose the defense post-snap, and seems to harden under pressure. But he is a home run hitter, not a guy that hits for average.

Carroll is a loyal guy. He wanted to support Wilson. But he wanted to support Wilson playing the way Carroll wanted. Carroll could not adapt to the new NFL. That was always the problem. The old way won't work anymore.
Both Carroll and Wilson are weirdly flawed in some of the same ways, but Wilson needed an offensive guru and Carroll wasn't one.

Yup I agree with everything here.

 

[seabowl]

I have a story like this too.

I had seen Russ at a grocery store some time back. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face.

I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

It was a sight to behold.

I don’t think we’ve seen a response from you on whether this really happened. If it did this is absolutely newsworthy, if not it’s irresponsible to post without saying immediately that it was made up. We all want to know if this is true or not???????

 

[Aircrew]

One sided hit piece, put out by the team.

I like this excerpt though:

"Schneider later apologized to the Saints and other teams…
…because Drew Lock was the QB Schneider wanted in return."

Way to go Schneids! Could've gotten more picks, but screw that, I must have Drew Lock!

No mentions of the poor roster construction, vapid drafts, the dated coaching, the lackey assistants that can't hold their positions anywhere in the league but on the Seahawks staff. The lack of building properly around the QB. The mismanagement of football operations over the last seven years that led to this dumpster fire.

If you believe Wilson was the problem, you've gotten your wish. But I have a sneaking suspicion the Hawks are going to keep losing under this failed management. While Wilson is going to continue winning with his new team and much better management.

The Seahawks have been getting it mostly wrong for years now. They better be right on this or they will be the laughing stock of the league.

Honest question: Has Russell Wilson ever done anything wrong in your eyes?

 

[Scorpion05]

I have a story like this too.

I had seen Russ at a grocery store some time back. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face.

I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

It was a sight to behold.

Yea so this never happened.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yea so this never happened.

I can't believe that there was ever a question as to whether it did or not lol

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Should be a hell of a game on Monday

 

[Welshers]

Where's John been?