Does Macdonald keep Geno?

[bigcc]

So hard to make the call on when he will go. Let alone guys like Nix and Mccarthy. IF they could trade down and still get a QB, bonus.
Plus, we're over 2 months away from the draft. So much can change in the meantime.

For QB's in particular, the combine can change the perceived hierarchy of QB's very quickly.

Personally I wouldn't take Mccarthy with a 2nd let alone 1st, but I've seen mocks from people who do it for a living slot him in the early teens so who knows

EDIT: I do know that bo was struggling in the practices, but he still has pro day/combine so not a big deal

 

[Bear-Hawk]

You can get nearly the same cap savings if you just cut/trade Diggs and draft a safety.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I heard a perfect comparison on 710 yesterday. The guy said that when UW needed a win in crunch time, they went to Penix. When Michigan wanted a win at the end, they went away from Mccarthy. I have no idea how he will be in the NFL, nobody does. But when I think of QB, I want a guy who is nails with the game on the line, he qualifies.

 

[bigcc]

You can get nearly the same cap savings if you just cut/trade Diggs and draft a safety.

Over twice as much saved by geno... 11 vs 22.5.

We also get a comp pick for letting him finish the season, but I'd rather extend him two years and smooth out the hit this year...I have more hope for diggs under Macdonald than geno under mystery OC, but I wouldn't be upset if they moved both. Lot of moves need to be made

 

[bigcc]

I heard a perfect comparison on 710 yesterday. The guy said that when UW needed a win in crunch time, they went to Penix. When Michigan wanted a win at the end, they went away from Mccarthy. I have no idea how he will be in the NFL, nobody does. But when I think of QB, I want a guy who is nails with the game on the line, he qualifies.

Ive watched him a handful of times, and I just really don't get the fascination.

In 40 games he threw for 300 yards 3 times

Not counting the mediocre 300 games, he threw for 250 yards 4 times.

7/40 games for TWO FIFTY, and people are trying to hype him up?

Only 4 of those were last season so it's not like he went and had a stunning senior year, and two of those were against east Carolina and Nevada-Las Vegas (lol)

How stunning and brave

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Over twice as much saved by geno... 11 vs 22.5.

We also get a comp pick for letting him finish the season, but I'd rather extend him two years and smooth out the hit this year...I have more hope for diggs under Macdonald than geno under mystery OC, but I wouldn't be upset if they moved both. Lot of moves need to be made

The cap savings for 2024 is $13M vs. $11M. I want to draft a QB but let him sit and learn for a year behind Geno.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Maybe I misunderstood but I was under the impression he was speaking generally about people doubting penix, not you specifically.

That being said, plenty of those people who watch penix have an implicit bias that because he's from the pac 12 his numbers don't count.... Film looks a lot different when you go into it with bias already on your mind, you gotta remember how many people they have to rank, and you gotta remember nobody outside of the west coast got our games(may the pac 12 media deal burn in hell) ..... Everyone saw the national championship though. They saw Texas but all I heard was how bad the db's are.

Agree with your end point though, along with injuries, he took like 5 snaps under center, and had like 3+ guys in motion half the time.

Ball don't lie though, I'm glad he has those question marks because we wouldn't be in a position to take him otherwise

He's not talking specifically about me, no. Partially, but not directed solely at me. But there are plenty of people here who bring up fairly mild and reasonable critiques of portions of Penix's makeup as a prospect and get the same treatment with the same "you don't watch him, obviously" swipes.

Dismissing fair points as "they don't watch football, obviously" over and over and over is just an insult to anyone who disagrees - and the majority disagree with his assessment of Penix. Even people higher than baseline on Penix would get this treatment if they don't tab him as a sure thing, immediate face-of-the-franchise stud.

The truth is that he's a lefty with questionable pocket presence, questionable decision making under duress, questionable footwork, and 2 ACL tears on the same knee. He also has bar-none the best arm in the class, makes several absolute mic drop throws per contest, and seems to have some modicum of "clutch" to his game.

This all adds up to a prospect worthy of fandom and support, but with undeniable red flags and, I'm sorry, a far-from-sure-thing chance of pro success. I don't see why anyone would be insulted by that evaluation, which is in line with most educated evaluations that have been posted on the guy, yet here we are.

Of course, they clearly don't watch, so who knows.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I think it was Nagy? I can't remember but someone super connected to the league said just based on film and if you removed the injury history Penix would be his #1 QB off the board because he has a special arm and does things none of the rest do at this point. I think a desperate team or a team with a really good situation will take a chance even with the injuries and draft him . But its also possible the injuries are so bad that everyone drops him. I think he's worth the risk and if Seattle can get him on day 2 I would love it.

I'm on him day 2, bigtime.

I just don't think I can spend 16 on him. Not without a looot of assurances from the doctors, a year for him on the bench, and a proven QB developer on the staff.

 

[bigcc]

The cap savings for 2024 is $13M vs. $11M. I want to draft a QB but let him sit and learn for a year behind Geno.

I understood 22.5 between the two seasons, maybe it's 24 but that'd be even better.

Think of it this way, if you cut him, you're not saving 13, you're saving 24 due to the next year. That 11 mil next year, can be used to extend someone like lockett, to free cap room this year after pushing some of his money forward.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's not talking specifically about me, no. Partially, but not directed solely at me. But there are plenty of people here who bring up fairly mild and reasonable critiques of portions of Penix's makeup as a prospect and get the same treatment with the same "you don't watch him, obviously" swipes.

Dismissing fair points as "they don't watch football, obviously" over and over and over is just an insult to anyone who disagrees - and the majority disagree with his assessment of Penix. Even people higher than baseline on Penix would get this treatment if they don't tab him as a sure thing, immediate face-of-the-franchise stud.

The truth is that he's a lefty with questionable pocket presence, questionable decision making under duress, questionable footwork, and 2 ACL tears on the same knee. He also has bar-none the best arm in the class, makes several absolute mic drop throws per contest, and seems to have some modicum of "clutch" to his game.

This all adds up to a prospect worthy of fandom and support, but with undeniable red flags and, I'm sorry, a far-from-sure-thing chance of pro success. I don't see why anyone would be insulted by that evaluation, which is in line with most educated evaluations that have been posted on the guy, yet here we are.

Of course, they clearly don't watch, so who knows.

Dude, get over it. My god. You made your point. over and over again.
NONE of the QB's are sure things, NONE of them. You act like you're some kind of football god around here. We ALL know football, plenty. There are people who know a lot more than any of us. It's just football talk and opinions.
I tried to mellow out, I tried to be civil with you. Clearly it didn't work. Oh well.

 

[bigcc]

He's not talking specifically about me, no. Partially, but not directed solely at me. But there are plenty of people here who bring up fairly mild and reasonable critiques of portions of Penix's makeup as a prospect and get the same treatment with the same "you don't watch him, obviously" swipes.

Dismissing fair points as "they don't watch football, obviously" over and over and over is just an insult to anyone who disagrees - and the majority disagree with his assessment of Penix. Even people higher than baseline on Penix would get this treatment if they don't tab him as a sure thing, immediate face-of-the-franchise stud.

The truth is that he's a lefty with questionable pocket presence, questionable decision making under duress, questionable footwork, and 2 ACL tears on the same knee. He also has bar-none the best arm in the class, makes several absolute mic drop throws per contest, and seems to have some modicum of "clutch" to his game.

This all adds up to a prospect worthy of fandom and support, but with undeniable red flags and, I'm sorry, a far-from-sure-thing chance of pro success. I don't see why anyone would be insulted by that evaluation, which is in line with most educated evaluations that have been posted on the guy, yet here we are.

Of course, they clearly don't watch, so who knows.

I'm in agreement with you. If you don't have negatives to say about a college kids game you aren't living in reality.

That being said, everything you mentioned regarding his play can be improved, arm talent isn't going to make much of a jump at this point for any qb in general though, and penix got it.

Injury question will be there, but a HIGHLY regarded orthopedic is in his camp saying he's good, he's not going to risk his career as head physician of rams/dodgers to help penix if he didn't believe it lol

As for left handedness, it's not as big of a deal as it used to be. I doubt the dolphins regret taking Tua at 5.

I agree with you though, very fair to point them out, but I would bet my house at least 1/4 of these big name guys couldn't frame it as well as you did. It's absolutely fair to assume some of these clowns base their opinion entirely on the one or two games they watched.

EDIT: for clarification I'm talking about the "mock draft gurus" we see every year

 

[Maelstrom787]

Dude, get over it. My god. You made your point. over and over again.
NONE of the QB's are sure things, NONE of them. You act like you're some kind of football god around here. We ALL know football, plenty. There are people who know a lot more than any of us. It's just football talk and opinions.
I tried to mellow out, I tried to be civil with you. Clearly it didn't work. Oh well.

My brother in christ, you wail to the high heavens about people "not watching" every time anyone so much as grades Penix below the tier of "surefire franchise player."

*You* are the one making the same point, over and over again.

You are projecting.

 

[sutz]

People do tend to overvalue QBs and the need for a superstar QB to win games IMO.

What that means is that Penix and guys like him will probably go in the top half of the 1st round just because "everybody knows you need a superstar QB" to win in the NFL. I didn't watch his whole UW career, just a few games at the end of it and I'll admit, he wins a lot of games. I'd love to get him, but...

I wouldn't try to trade up to get him, and I'm not sure we have the resources to do that anyway.

Plus, I'm really in the 'trade down to pick up a 2d round pick if we can' club. Those can be gold if handled right.

So, if he's there at #16 I'd be sorely tempted to grab him for sure, but it would hurt to do so.

Of course, a lot depends on our new OC, assuming we get one before next week. He would have to sign on to the Geno, keep or dump, decision too. If we keep him it eases the need for a QB a bit, if we move him out the need rather obviously increases. Oh, and what do we do with Lock as well?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

My brother in christ, you wail to the high heavens about people "not watching" every time anyone so much as grades Penix below the tier of "surefire franchise player."

*You* are the one making the same point, over and over again.

You are projecting.

Fair enough. And you're right, I get a little extra fired up for Penix and UW players. Part of it is the ridiculous shift in expectations after the Sugar Bowl vs. the National Championship game. They whole team played a bad game. After the Sugar Bowl, many had him in top 15, some in the top 10. One bad game and all the sudden he's a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Just seems like a huge overreaction to one game. To me at least.

 

[Ostatehawk]

He's not talking specifically about me, no. Partially, but not directed solely at me. But there are plenty of people here who bring up fairly mild and reasonable critiques of portions of Penix's makeup as a prospect and get the same treatment with the same "you don't watch him, obviously" swipes.

Dismissing fair points as "they don't watch football, obviously" over and over and over is just an insult to anyone who disagrees - and the majority disagree with his assessment of Penix. Even people higher than baseline on Penix would get this treatment if they don't tab him as a sure thing, immediate face-of-the-franchise stud.

The truth is that he's a lefty with questionable pocket presence, questionable decision making under duress, questionable footwork, and 2 ACL tears on the same knee. He also has bar-none the best arm in the class, makes several absolute mic drop throws per contest, and seems to have some modicum of "clutch" to his game.

This all adds up to a prospect worthy of fandom and support, but with undeniable red flags and, I'm sorry, a far-from-sure-thing chance of pro success. I don't see why anyone would be insulted by that evaluation, which is in line with most educated evaluations that have been posted on the guy, yet here we are.

Of course, they clearly don't watch, so who knows.

See Bryce Young. All-time first ballot HOF stone cold lock of the century. You simply do not know - like ever.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There has been talk on benching him for a lack of effort. EXACTLY why I didn't want the Hawks to consider him. Bryce Young has a rep of taking a lot of plays off.

 

[Parallax]

The latest mock drafts I’ve seen leave no QB I’m interested in by the time we pick.

Maybe JS sees something in a guy…maybe they make a move.

But, sticking with a top 15 QB with a fair contract isn’t the worst we could do… this year.

The mocks almost always presume more interest in QBs that we see in real life. I'll be surprised if the Hawks take Penix, Nix, McCarthy or Rattler if available at 16. My guess is they go O line and wait to see who falls to them. Certainly Williams, Daniels and Maye will be long gone.

 

[Parallax]

See Bryce Young. All-time first ballot HOF stone cold lock of the century. You simply do not know - like ever.

It's too early to call Young a bust but I don't recall anyone saying he was a generational talent. They said that about Trevor Lawrence and so far he's looking like the one guy chosen in the first round in that "21 draft who could still wind up a franchise QB but he doesn't YET look all-world.

The only guy who was called a generational QB who I can recall actually turning into a HOF guy was Elway and even that year, 1983, the amazing year in which three QBs went to the HOF, five went in the first round and each wound up being a real franchise guy for at least a handful of years, the best of the best was Marino, taken with the very last pick of that round. But then Marino's the guy who never won a Superbowl, so there's that.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Troy Fautanu at 16 would be a hell of a value. Dude is a beast. And yes.......he played for UW.

 

[Parallax]

Penix won 21 games in a row, went 9-0 vs. ranked teams, won the Sugar Bowl, beat Whoregon 3 straight times. He's cold blooded. Yet, one loss and a lot of people are acting like he sucks. I don't get it, but I just assume they didn't actually WATCH Penix play.
And yes, I DO understand the injury stuff. But, he didn't miss a single start the last 2 full seasons. People who don't actually watch him play clearly don't get how incredible he is. And that's fine. He's a beast, and whatever team gets him is getting one hell of a QB. He can make all the throws, he gets the "pocket QB" assumptions, but he absolutely is mobile when needed. And he has an absolute cannon for an arm. but...but.....his delivery looks strange.........

BFD. You either make the throws or you don't, and he does. You ever make the plays with the game on the line, and he does.

I watched every game he played at UW and still have concerns. Would be happy if we got him in the third round but not at #16. My concerns aren't just injury related. He played behind an incredible line that protected him incredibly well. The Michigan game was more like what he'd face in the NFL and he looked bad. Plus, he got injured.

Penix is a guy who's hard to project. All QBs are hard to project from college to the NFL but in his case it's particularly hard. His arm is world class. He's not a statue but he's had injuries and at Washington was protected so he could throw from the pocket. His best passes were to receivers who were significantly better than the guys guarding them. Threw a great fade route but was not accurate over the middle of the field. Could at times scramble enough to avoid pressure. Looked great that way at the SugarBowl. But all year, when faced with significant pressure, it was hit or miss. There were games where he'd throw a touchdown when the opponent blitzed and others when he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. There were some close games that shouldn't have been close. UW would have lost to ASU but for Mish Powell's interception. The offense couldn't do anything that night. In the Apple Cup, the offense got shut down often and the last series we were lucky the ball wasn't intercepted before Gross nailed the field goal.

I could imagine Penix doing well in the right situation with the right coaches and the right protection. I could also imagine him not lasting a season.